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Old 10-24-2021, 12:34 PM   #1
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My wife and I are looking at upgrading our TT, currently we have a Crossfit 2200BH and I tow with a GMC AT4 1500 with the 3.0. One of the trailers we are looking at is the Keystone Cougar 25DBSWE.

My concern is it seems a little heavy for my truck.

Its unloaded weight is 6240 with a GCWR of 8800 and tongue weight of 800.

My truck has a tow capacity of 8900, payload of 1385 and GVCWR of 15,000. My wife, daughter, Lab and I around around 450 in weight for the truck.

With this I am calculating around 140 lbs of stuff I can have in the truck, and would have to keep the truck payload under its weight. I dont think I would ever max the trailer because the tanks on this one are huge, but it is about 500lbs heavier empty than the other TT we are looking at a GD 2400BH.

Thoughts? Thanks
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Old 10-24-2021, 12:44 PM   #2
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First off NEVER use the UVW, as thatís the weight when it left the assembly line and will NEVER be that again. Youíll need to add propane, batteries and cargo.

Too many threads on here to start linking to all of them, suffice to say itís best to use the trailer GVWR and 12-15% for estimating tongue weight.

2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.

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Old 10-24-2021, 12:59 PM   #3
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Back into it a bit;

1385lb. payload. Currently the occupants (with child) at 450 so allow 500 (growth). Weight distribution hitch 120. Trailer gvw 8800 x 13% = 1144. So 500 + 120 + 1144 = 1764. Add the additional gear that you WILL have in the truck, say at least 150 = 1914 minimum required payload.

After that trying to "make it work" is just trying to minimize a bad situation IMO. Now, do you think you will add 2560 lbs. of cargo in that trailer? I don't know and I doubt you do either until you start using it. All that "extra" space seems to somehow get taken up over time. HOW do you use it, what do you like to take??

The Cougar line is a step up from the Bullet line. The trailer itself is built heavier and in this case what you are looking at is about 5' longer at 30' and 2500lbs. heavier than what you have....a lot of trailer for a 1/2 ton - a lot of tail to swing that dog.

I try to err on the conservative (safe) side. Since I've done it I won't say it can't be done. I can say although "doable" it wasn't nearly as much fun as it should have been. An HD truck fixed that. In the end you will have to crunch the numbers using YOUR reality and knowledge but give yourself plenty of safety cushion - especially with a little one.
Danny & Susan wife of 54 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
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Old 10-24-2021, 01:00 PM   #4
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Offhand, my gut says no. I was pulling a 26RBSWE (400 pounds heavier, dry; CAT-scaled tongue weight 1260) with an F-150 (payload 1726) and I was substantially overweight; I had to upgrade to an F-250 (3460 payload) to make our numbers.

I recommend this planner to people going through this exercise. It requires some bothersome data gathering, but it gave me rock solid numbers.
2019 Cougar 26RBSWE
2019 Ford F-250
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Old 10-24-2021, 01:00 PM   #5
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Iíve been in your position. Iíll just add that advertised TW on my signature trailer is 810. Actual is just north of 1200 loaded up to 8600 or so.

You will be much better off guesstimating by going 13% of GVWR for the TW.

Finally, didnít see the mention of a weight distribution hitch in your calcs. Add another hundred for that.
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Old 10-24-2021, 04:18 PM   #6
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That is simply a lot of trailer for a 1/2 ton, both the weight and length.

Jim and Carole
Roseville, MN
2018 RAM 3500 DRW, Diesel, Long Box, Air Lift Bags - 2020 Montana HC 381TH, Sailun S637
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Old 10-24-2021, 07:11 PM   #7
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The weight of that will definitely get you. You just don't have enough payload for that (Danny did a good job with the numbers). Don't worry about the length, that trailer isn't even 30'; that doesn't mean much with a good 4pt sway hitch. But you definitely don't have enough payload on that truck to safely carry that trailer. So either you need to pass on that trailer or upgrade the truck.
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Old 10-25-2021, 05:36 PM   #8
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Having just tested our 220RD (not scaled yet) with our 5.4L F-150 that has an added rear sway and upgraded rear shocks - think about more truck. 4799 unloaded, I'm estimating 6000-6500 with water, etc and at least 700-800 tw. The 150 pulls it, but doesn't like it much. The W/D hitch is set to keep the nose from feeling light, but 65 mph is about all you want.

You have to scale things at operational configuration. Our 34' Cargo is 8580 empty. With short 5 drawer tool box, genny, two 125cc quads, 40 gal fresh, misc stuff like tiedowns, cots, etc and a 3115 lb race car its 13,900 rolling down the highway.
Keystone 2021 Springdale 220RD
Tow - 2020 F-350 DRW 7.3L / 2021 F-150 3.5L Twin turbo
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Old 11-07-2021, 08:58 AM   #9
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I also faced the predicament of being overweight for a 1/2 ton. Bought a GMC 2500HD gas pusher and it doesn’t even know the trailer is back there.

The biggest concern I had was hauling up and controlling it down the hills. Worth every penny to upgrade and know you’re in control.
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Old 11-07-2021, 12:23 PM   #10
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So the old 2004 has gone to the dealer as a trade on a 2021 F-150 3.5L twin turbo Ecoboost with the 10 speed trans. This combo is rated at 11,200 max trailer 16,500 GCWV. On the scales, truck is 5120 and the combo is 10,500. So even with water the 220 isn't that heavy. 5380. Tongue weight figures around 750. The 3.5 well out-pulls the old 5.4L. I was truly impressed. That said, that tall 220 still shoves the tail end around some, even with the WDH and sway control enabled. I don't see any way around that due to the config of the trailer. The front end is just too tall and blunt. You feel even smaller cars taking the wind off the trailer when passing. Same but not as much with the F350, but then it's got 4 tires back there and 750 lbs is nothing lol.
Keystone 2021 Springdale 220RD
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Old 11-07-2021, 12:37 PM   #11
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Groceries! Don't forget to weigh in all that camping food!
Your food; canned goods, frozen stuff, ice, bottled water, soda, beer, milk.
Count on 150 - 200 lbs for all edibles.
Clothes? Nobody figures on clothes being an extra weight.
All your tools, electric cords, water hoses, sewer hoses and maintenance items.
Chairs, inflatables, fishing gear, grills, wood or portable fire-pits. Did you add more batteries, an inverter, solar panels, extra TV in bedroom.
It all adds up fast.
Whether we load it in tow vehicle or RV it uses up payload and very fast.
It is so easy to use up 1300 or 1600 pounds payload on a towable and the tow vehicle can be over itís payload easily.

Really do the math, donít go by numbers from dealers or listed online.
Get sticker numbers off your truck and off your camper or the actual camper you are thinking about.
Post the here and get knowledgable honest answers whatís doable or possible.
Then you make the decision.

It is very easy to get up to and over stretched with a 1500 or 150.
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Old 11-07-2021, 01:40 PM   #12
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A good point of course.. Ours stays well outfitted, we don't add much more than150 lbs in it to go. We outfit out trailers so as to throw in a couple of clothes bags and maybe food and go. Chairs, tv, tables, bed stuff, towels, water, tools, soaps, TP, hoses, etc - all there and ready to roll. food could just as easy be in the truck. When we pack food for a race, two ice chests and ice are about 60 lbs. Checking the tank today, the RV was missing maybe 150 lbs of water. So we'd be around 5700 fully loaded.

Now the race trailer -lol- that has 5360 lbs of equipment that goes in before roll out.

All the numbers I post are from the scales or derived from scale readings, unless noted otherwise. The 11,200 is from Fords towing guide. I don't guess. Steer axle 2880, drive axle 3000, trailer axle 4620. Truck is 5120, fuel+passengers.

As for the new truck, loaded we are 800 lbs under the GAWR for the rear axle. So plenty good to go. That's with fuel and both normal passengers, and all the stuff in the trailer.
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