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Old 11-18-2019, 09:57 PM   #1
Carmando
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Is this too much trailer for us? Truck Mods?

I have a 2018 F-150 V6 Ecoboost and the wife and I really like the Cougar line and are torn between the 27' 27SABWE or the 24' 24SABWE. How big of a towing experience do you think there would be and what truck modifications are recommended?
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Old 11-19-2019, 04:29 AM   #2
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Have a 24sabwe and had a 2013 F150 when we bought it. Traded it for a F350 after first long tow in the Mountains. Night and day towing experience. The dealer claimed they wouldn't sell me the 27sab as it was to much trailer for the truck in our area of the Mountains.
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Old 11-19-2019, 04:52 AM   #3
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It's good that you're asking before you purchase. Do your research with one thing in mind: The truck and trailer dealers will not be honest about what you can pull with what. Even the sales/marketing brochures are misleading - all in the hope of making sales.

It's much more than just whether or not your engine has enough power to get the trailer moving down the road. The truck has to be strong enough to handle the load and the brakes have to be enough to stop the load, etc.

You must also consider what happens in unexpected emergency situations, like a large animal jumping in front of you, requiring emergency reactions, or you have a tire (or 2) blow out on the truck or trailer, etc.

There are several limits which you should not only not exceed, but you should allow for a buffer below them. These include the max payload on the truck, the gross axle weight rating, gross vehicle weight rating, trailer hitch/receiver weight ratings, tire weight ratings, etc. You should make sure you are below all of these.

Finally, don't use the dry weight reported for the trailer when considering these limits - rather you should use the GVWR noted on the trailer's weight sticker. Similarly, don't use the published tongue weight - you can estimate the tongue weight by taking a percentage of the GVWR for the trailer, or just go to the scales and have it weighed (when it's all stocked and ready to go camping).

Although the F150 looks like a real truck, you really are limited in what you can safely tow with it, so research wisely.

Good luck.
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Old 11-19-2019, 05:32 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmando View Post
I have a 2018 F-150 V6 Ecoboost and the wife and I really like the Cougar line and are torn between the 27' 27SABWE or the 24' 24SABWE. How big of a towing experience do you think there would be and what truck modifications are recommended?
In my opinion the only acceptable modification is to trade up to a larger truck. The previous posts are spot on and another factor to consider is the "sail area" of a trailer that size. Crosswinds, trucks and buses passing creates a tsunami of air that pushes on the huge flat side area.

The other consideration is the fulcrum of the added length. Think of it this way. Take a 10 lb. sledge hammer, hold it at the head and extend your arm. No big deal to hold it out there right? Now take that same tool, hold it at the end of the handle and extend your arm with the handle parallel to the floor. It just got a lot heavier feeling didn't it?

Many, many people "drink the Kool-aid" offered by the misrepresenting auto and RV industries. When someone makes the "leap of faith" and trade in their Accord or whatever car and purchase a 1/2 ton pu they think they are "King of the Road" in their "Big Truck". It's completely understandable as relatively speaking it is a much larger/heavier vehicle and very capable of towing a box down the highway, just not a box that large and heavy. Then to "seal the deal" RV manufacturers use terms like "half ton towable" to sell the camper to the inexperienced truck owner.

So in my opinion you doing the right due diligence by asking the question. Read the responses, search the forum and make your decision. Good luck with your endeavors.
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Old 11-19-2019, 05:39 AM   #5
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There is a yellow sticker in the door that tells you the payload. You have to look at the hitch to make sure it meats the load capacity of the trailer. You don't want to exceed the GCVRW of the truck. That too is on the sticker. other than that you will be fine. You may want to get some air bags. The F150 has soft springs and the truck may sag even if under the payload of the truck. You need to be able to level the truck and trailer for a more comfortable tow. Get the correct load leveling hitch and have fun. Brakes, truck has them and the trailer has them so don't worry. If you listen to some guys here you will never leave the driveway without your lawyer on speed dial.
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Old 11-19-2019, 05:55 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by +Ruff Rider View Post
Brakes, truck has them and the trailer has them so don't worry. If you listen to some guys here you will never leave the driveway without your lawyer on speed dial.
This is not a terribly responsible thing to say to a newcomer.

There are different levels of brakes. Brakes are generally engineered for the load they are designed to deal with. You can easily put a trailer behind a truck that causes more load than the truck brakes are designed for. You need to look at the ratings and make sure they are in line and provide sufficient breathing room.

As for the trailer brakes, there are some pretty simple failure scenarios in which the trailer brakes may fail to work when needed. Don't depend on them to save your life. If your truck cannot stop the combined weight in an emergency, you need a bigger truck.

To the OP: You're going to get a lot of advice and you'll have to decide what you do with it. I (and many others) will be willing to answer any questions you have so don't be shy.
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Old 11-19-2019, 05:58 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmando View Post
I have a 2018 F-150 V6 Ecoboost and the wife and I really like the Cougar line and are torn between the 27' 27SABWE or the 24' 24SABWE. How big of a towing experience do you think there would be and what truck modifications are recommended?
We would need much more specific data about YOUR TRUCK to make any recommendations. Ford sells an F150 with a 2.7L V6 EcoBoost with very minimal towing capability and they sell several versions of the 3.5L V6 EcoBoost, some with minimal capability, some with adequate capability for the 24SABWE. IMHO, none of the F150 trucks have the capacity to safely tow the 27SABWE when fully loaded.


At any rate, right now, we don't even know which V6 EcoBoost, what gear ratio, what cab configuration or whether it's a 2WD or 4WD version, so it's impossible to even offer recommendations specific to your truck. That said, generally speaking, the 2.7L is not suitable for towing large trailers and the 3.5L may (or may not) be capable in some configurations, but certainly not in "all configurations" of the truck. Depending on YOUR truck's equipment, you may be OK to tow the 24SABWE or you may be in the "buy a pop-up" category.


Give us more specific information regarding your truck's GVW, Payload, GCWR, RAWR, FAWR, tire size, hitch receiver rating, axle gearing ratio, truck wheelbase, cab configuration, drive type (2 or 4WD) and we can make some more "pointed recommendations"


But, with the current information, any recommendation (other than be careful, you might get in over your head) would be a guess...…
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Old 11-19-2019, 06:30 AM   #8
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I usually don't post when folks ask towing questions as we have a full complement of weight experts but when I looked at the specs for the 24SABWE, the GVWR for that trailer is 7800 lbs. The hitch weight is listed at 610 lbs. That just doesn't sound possible to my untrained self.

You won't be able to hop on down to the truck scales, as suggested, since you don't own the trailer but the published hitch weight seems plain ol' silly to me and I would guess more like 1000 lbs or even a bit more. Look at some of the posts on this forum where folks HAVE gone down to the scales and pin weight is 15-20 percent of trailer weight and if you figure that to be a more meaningful number, say 1200-1500 lbs roughly, compare that to your truck payload on the magic door sticker. Add the suspected pin weight to the weight of passengers and stuff in the truck to get an idea if you are OK or not.
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Old 11-19-2019, 07:53 AM   #9
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ABSOLUTELY DO NOT take the RV salesman word about anything concerning the ability of YOUR truck to tow any RV on their lot, look at the manufacturer sticker weights on the particular RV your looking at & the door jamb sticker on your truck, that salesman has 1 goal....to sell you a RV, doesn't give 2 hoots if you can tow it safely or not.
If you want post these weights on here & those with years of towing experience, that have been exactly where you are now, will be glad to help cipher whether it's possible or as John said "you're in the popup category". No one here wants you to "have your lawyer on speed dial", not trying to scare you, but will give you sound advice, what you decide to do with that advice is totally up to you.
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Old 11-19-2019, 08:03 AM   #10
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I値l share my experience. I have a Hideout 24BHSWE trailer which is 27 feet long and the gross trailer weight is 7800 pounds. I towed my first year with an F150 ecoboost, and it was ok. I知 fairly certain I was over my payload capacity.

I upgraded to a F250 and now towing is like a dream. I used to be constantly worried about being overweight and now I don稚 even think about it. Having the larger truck to tow a trailer that size is extremely stable and comfortable to drive.

Like others have mentioned, and like you are already doing, do research and learn weights and true tow capacities before you buy.

Good luck!
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Old 11-19-2019, 08:20 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmando View Post
I have a 2018 F-150 V6 Ecoboost and the wife and I really like the Cougar line and are torn between the 27' 27SABWE or the 24' 24SABWE. How big of a towing experience do you think there would be and what truck modifications are recommended?

I have a 2018 27SABWE and tow it with a Ford Expedition equipped with a tow package max tow 9000 lbs. I know I'm at my limit but I've been towing with Expeditions for 15 years. Pros are my 100 lb lab has lots of room. Cons the V8 is slightly under powered on severe grades but for the most part performs well in normal conditions. Good weight distribution and sway control is needed. I recently purchased an Anderson WD/Sway hitch and it is amazing.



The newer 10 speed v6 has much more HP and torque. Considering an upgrade.
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Old 11-19-2019, 10:47 AM   #12
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"Brakes, truck has them and the trailer has them so don't worry. If you listen to some guys here you will never leave the driveway without your lawyer on speed dial."


I have to agree with Mark about this not being terribly responsible to say to a newbie. While it is true the "truck has them and the trailer has them", each set of brakes is built to control a certain, finite load; all brakes are "brakes" - they have their limits. Just an example: coming back from FL one year on the bridge over Mobile Bay, there was an accident up ahead and everyone was locking it down very quickly. My truck is more than enough truck for my trailer and my trailer brakes are excellent because they are checked/adjusted before each trip. As this scenario unfolded in front of us very rapidly the only thing I could do was hit the brakes...HARD. The truck would have stopped quickly but towing a big trailer it's more like a semi. Thankfully I had a good space between me and the car in front of me but I ended up with my bumper just a few short inches off his and I was angled right at the guard rail on the edge of the highway....dropping of into the Bay. I did not angle to the left because I would have pushed someone directly into 70mph oncoming traffic. IF I had been using my previous 1/2 ton I would have probably been in the bay or someone else (or all of us) severely injured. There's a whole lot more to it than "brakes is brakes" - and we NEVER know when "that moment" is going to occur. As far as never leaving without a lawyer on speed dial....I leave all the time and don't worry about a lawyer when traveling because I've made sure that my stuff is up to snuff.

As others have suggested, post the numbers off the sticker inside the driver door, they will tell you what you need to know and how your truck stacks up against the trailers you have looked at. Remember to keep a margin (10-15%) of safety between what you load your truck with and the maximum numbers for your truck. Look for the payload, gawr (frt/rear) and gvw of the vehicle for a start. Let us know and congrats on thinking ahead to try to match the combo instead of ending up behind the curve with a mismatched rig and finding yourself at the truck dealership trading for a larger TV as I and many others here have done.

Edit: Once you have posted, and if we find that the numbers support one or both of the trailers, I'm sure there will be some suggestions to improve the towing experience along the lines of air bags, shocks, LT tires etc.
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Old 11-19-2019, 11:01 AM   #13
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This is not a terribly responsible thing to say to a newcomer.

There are different levels of brakes. Brakes are generally engineered for the load they are designed to deal with. You can easily put a trailer behind a truck that causes more load than the truck brakes are designed for. You need to look at the ratings and make sure they are in line and provide sufficient breathing room.

As for the trailer brakes, there are some pretty simple failure scenarios in which the trailer brakes may fail to work when needed. Don't depend on them to save your life. If your truck cannot stop the combined weight in an emergency, you need a bigger truck.

To the OP: You're going to get a lot of advice and you'll have to decide what you do with it. I (and many others) will be willing to answer any questions you have so don't be shy.
I guess you didn't understand my post. I clearly said that he had to look at the yellow sticker for the GCVW and not to exceed that. Next I said that both trailer have brakes and the (not mentioned in my post) are more than capable of stopping a fully loaded trailer, provided the correct axles are installed. Now we are getting in the weeds here a bit. I gave OP sound advice on what and where to look for the information about his truck in his driveway not something on a lot or brochure. I also told him to check the hitch on the truck to make sure it was correct for his trailer. Not one time did I mislead OP. I have done lots of research and more than 35,000 miles towing my RV. At this point I consider myself pretty good at it. i have backed up more than I care to count and never hit a thing. I don't always have my wife spot ether. I get out acess the spot and go for it.
I sure hope we helped OP decide on weather his truck is ok to tow with.
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Old 11-19-2019, 11:41 AM   #14
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There is a yellow sticker in the door that tells you the payload. You have to look at the hitch to make sure it meats the load capacity of the trailer. You don't want to exceed the GCVRW of the truck. That too is on the sticker. other than that you will be fine. You may want to get some air bags. The F150 has soft springs and the truck may sag even if under the payload of the truck. You need to be able to level the truck and trailer for a more comfortable tow. Get the correct load leveling hitch and have fun. Brakes, truck has them and the trailer has them so don't worry. If you listen to some guys here you will never leave the driveway without your lawyer on speed dial.
I'm going to beat on the dead horse for a moment, then encourage to OP to check, double check then triple check his truck's capabilities BEFORE committing to either trailer that he's interested in purchasing. It's clear to me that with the limited information he provided, he isn't aware of much that affects his truck's towing capabilities.

What that tells me is that he can't "read between the lines and interpret what we meant to say, but might not have been clear in saying"...…

So, it's true: "Brakes, truck has them and the traielr has them, so don't worry" Let's face it, as an experienced RV'er, I know that can be interpreted on its "face value" or it can be interpreted as "complete BS"... Without casting dispersions, if I can interpret it in more than one way, how can any of us be "even somewhat sure" of how a novice, asking for advice is going to interpret that sentence????

Literally, it's factual, they both have brakes... From a towing perspective, none of us can be even remotely sure that "he'll be fine". What was said has little or no "useful advice" other than acknowledging that both the truck and trailer have a means to stop them, but no means to even begin to establish whether that ability to stop is safe, adequate, even whether it will work together to stop the rig... (Remember, the OP is new and didn't even mention if his truck has a brake controller)…..

So, from a perspective of offering advice to a brand new RV'er who has never towed, hasn't even bought an RV yet, to say something like, "Other than that, you'll be fine" is a reassurance with no earthly means to know whether it's sound advice or about to get a "noobie in trouble".....
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Old 11-19-2019, 02:17 PM   #15
Ken / Claudia
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Check out my listed trailer regarding dry tongue wt. I beleive factory lists 560 lbs or close. I drove over a DOT scale while taking it loaded for 2 for 3 days of camping. It was 920 lbs. So, what ever the trucks payload rating is; Yes plan on 1,000 lbs of added wt. to truck just for the trailer tongue on the 24 footer.
Edit:
The following post is correct, the number Keystone, (ie a 24RKSWE) gives does not include the bumper and tongue. OR DMV figured that one out and takes money from me for a 27 foot trailer. Do not tell them, my tape shows it is 27 ft 4 inch's long.
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Old 11-19-2019, 04:27 PM   #16
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24sabwe is like 29 foot. Not 24.
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Old 11-20-2019, 06:09 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Carmando View Post
I have a 2018 F-150 V6 Ecoboost and the wife and I really like the Cougar line and are torn between the 27' 27SABWE or the 24' 24SABWE. How big of a towing experience do you think there would be and what truck modifications are recommended?

Not sure if anybody is familiar enough with towing heavy with F150s or not, since I didn't see this asked. The only thing that really matters is if you have the Max Tow package with the 3.5L V6 Ecoboost or the Max Payload and/or both.

I'm not sure what the truck would feel like without atleast a Max Tow package, but I do know that my 2016 F150 with the Max Tow package could tow that without a problem. If your not careful you could be well over the payload, but that could happen with any truck.

Ever since Ford came out with the Max Tow package that encompassed the 3.5L V6 Ecoboost, there are tons of people like me that got completely out of the diesel game. I think your own setup and preference matters more to "will the truck do it", remember these aren't the same 1/2 tons that maybe some of our older members are more familiar with. Payloads are way higher, brakes are bigger, frames are thicker, and finally now we have a gas engine that has a very similar torque curve to a turbocharged diesel engine.

Mods that I would do are Bilstein 5100 Shocks, Firestone Airbags or Sumo Springs, Weight Distribution Hitch, You could go E rated 10 ply tires just to make sure that you won't have any issues if you decided to go over legal payload.

Again this is assuming that you have either the Max Tow or Max Payload or both, I can't really speak on a F150 without one of those packages.
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Old 11-20-2019, 07:05 PM   #18
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Tofan,

I agree with you that the F150 3.5l ecoboost with the max tow package is a capable tow vehicle. I strongly disagree with any suggestion of purchasing a truck or trailer that would exceed any weight limitation, including payload capacity.

Just stating my opinion, I知 not trying to criticize or start an argument.
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Old 11-20-2019, 07:16 PM   #19
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Logan X,


No I agree 100%. I think it's important to make sure your trailer and truck can operate in a safe legal fashion to include not exceeding weight capacity.



But if he/she was gonna renegade it anyways and be overloaded, atleast the mods would make it a little more safer for everybody else!
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Old 11-20-2019, 07:46 PM   #20
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Just FYI to the OP!
Yes, you can add mods to your truck til the cows come home but there is NOT a single mod or combination of mods that will add 1 pound of payload or carrying capacity to any truck, most add weight that is subtracted from the posted payload. Basically overloaded is overloaded, pick one of two possible cures, less RV or more truck.
Also to compare a V6, boosted or not, to a diesel as a tow vehicle is comparing apples to gravy, ABSOLUTELY no comparison.
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