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Old 04-24-2019, 12:36 PM   #1
Computerpilot
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2019 expedition max

Has anyone towed a 29bhs cougar with the new expedition? I do have the heavy duty towing package with, radiator, electric brakes, etc.
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Old 04-24-2019, 01:19 PM   #2
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There are a few things to keep in mind when you look at this question:

1. You should always assume the trailer is loaded to GVW. Then assume 10-15% of that is the tongue weight.

2. Look at the payload sticker on your driver's door post (the yellow sticker). It will give you the payload max for your vehicle. That payload needs to account for everything you put in the truck, including people, cargo, the WD hitch and the tongue weight of the trailer.

3. Look at the GCWR for the truck/trailer (provided by the towing guide for the truck) and make sure you're not exceeding that (GCWR is the combined gross weight of both the truck and trailer).

There are others, but these are the big hurdles. Make sure you're okay with these and then start looking for the other issues (like axle weight ratings, tire ratings, etc.)

Keep in mind that you don't just need to have enough truck to pull the trailer. You also need enough to stop the combined rig as well as enough truck to control the combined rig in the event of an emergency situation, like swerving to miss a road animal, tire blow out, etc.

It's good that you're asking. There are a lot of great folks on this forum that will help with these questions.
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Old 04-24-2019, 05:12 PM   #3
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The max payload is 1653 and the hitch weight is of the trailer is about 700. All 6 of us weigh about 750. It will be close but should work. I will not travel with full water tanks and a trailer at max gross.
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Old 04-24-2019, 06:05 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkEHansen View Post
There are a few things to keep in mind when you look at this question:

1. You should always assume the trailer is loaded to GVW. Then assume 10-15% of that is the tongue weight.

2. Look at the payload sticker on your driver's door post (the yellow sticker). It will give you the payload max for your vehicle. That payload needs to account for everything you put in the truck, including people, cargo, the WD hitch and the tongue weight of the trailer.

3. Look at the GCWR for the truck/trailer (provided by the towing guide for the truck) and make sure you're not exceeding that (GCWR is the combined gross weight of both the truck and trailer).

There are others, but these are the big hurdles. Make sure you're okay with these and then start looking for the other issues (like axle weight ratings, tire ratings, etc.)

Keep in mind that you don't just need to have enough truck to pull the trailer. You also need enough to stop the combined rig as well as enough truck to control the combined rig in the event of an emergency situation, like swerving to miss a road animal, tire blow out, etc.

It's good that you're asking. There are a lot of great folks on this forum that will help with these questions.
Since when is the Tow Vehicle designed to stop the combined weight (CGVW) with no trailer brakes? On a 6%+ down grade at 70mph? No Way.
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Old 04-24-2019, 06:07 PM   #5
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It happens when the trailer brakes fail, for which we should be prepared.
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Old 04-24-2019, 07:40 PM   #6
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750 lbs of souls in the TV is a mighty big hit on the total available payload of 1653 lbs.

Remember, the dry tongue weight of any trailer is completely irrelevant. Assuming a gross trailer weight (GVWR) of 8800 lbs and 15% tongue weight, a "ready to go camping" scenario will leave the OP with just barely over 300 lbs of payload remaining. That remaining 300 lbs has to account for all humans in the TV, cargo in the TV, drinks in the TV, iPads, laptops, and other electronics in the TV, carseats in the TV, and a 100 lb WDH. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the towing specs (GCVWR, axle ratings, GVWR, and tire specs) are exceeded.

I just dont see how one can consider this a safe towing rig.
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Old 04-24-2019, 08:01 PM   #7
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Since when is the Tow Vehicle designed to stop the combined weight (CGVW) with no trailer brakes? On a 6%+ down grade at 70mph? No Way.
Frank, I think you just answered the question of why you don't tow an RV with an inadequate vehicle. The situation you posed could happen to anyone, at any time; poor/maladjusted/unadjusted brakes; umbilical comes unplugged or any of another 100 things. That's why towing with an overloaded vehicle just gets worse and worse as you think about the things that could happen. I'm glad you pointed that out.
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Old 04-24-2019, 08:10 PM   #8
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OK, just sitting here looking at the numbers.
My TV is over 2 feet longer and believe me size matters. I would not tow this TT with my Silverado double cab truck, I think you are in the 2500 / 250 range.
My TT is smaller and lighter and I started out with a Ford Explorer Sport with the EcoBoost 3.5 as a tow vehicle.
The Explorer just didn't have enough size to control the TT in cross winds or semi's passing. The SPEC's said I was good but.....
To make life simple, if the size of the TT is over 25 feet (box size) IMHO you need a 2500 / 250.
My little yellow sticker says I can carry 1700 lbs and I can pull 9700 lbs and all that is bull.
If you are looking at more than 2/3 of your rating it's time to buy a smaller TT or a bigger truck.
Remember, your Expedition has an independent rear suspension, great for a nice ride, not good for towing.
I am not a truck guy and I really looked into a Tahoe or Expedition and they just are not good tow systems.
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Old 04-24-2019, 10:11 PM   #9
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Frank, I think you just answered the question of why you don't tow an RV with an inadequate vehicle. The situation you posed could happen to anyone, at any time; poor/maladjusted/unadjusted brakes; umbilical comes unplugged or any of another 100 things. That's why towing with an overloaded vehicle just gets worse and worse as you think about the things that could happen. I'm glad you pointed that out.
Danny, this happened to us on our trip to the southwest last month. We just finished a visit to White Sand NM and were headed west on US 70. My tpms began to alarm as the sensor on the rear passenger trailer tire climbed over 130 degrees.

Stopped our rig on the side of that dark desert hwy and assessed the situation. The electromagnet on the brake assembly was shorting out and causing the pads to to ride the drum. It was too dark, too cold, and unsafe to fix the problem on that stretch of hwy. We had no cell signal either. Decided to unplug the 7 way pigtail and slowly drive 15 more miles into Las cruces where we found a safe gas station to pull the wheel. Got the melted magnet and fragments of pads and hardware out of the drum and was able to drive to Tucson with the other 3 trailer brakes in operation.

We were very glad to have a 3/4 ton truck to move our brakeless trailer to a safe location for a temporary fix. A 1/2 ton may have stranded us through the night.

Called the trailer and axle service center that did all suspension upgrades last year and had a reimbursement check waiting for us when we returned home.
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Old 04-25-2019, 02:13 AM   #10
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As has already been pointed out, that 7xx lbs for tongue weight is your empty weight. The only time you will ever see that amount of tongue weight is...
1 The day you bring it home
2 The day you sell it.
Everyday in between those days it will be loaded to some weight over the empty weight. With a potential for 8800 lbs GVWR, that should always be the number you use to calculate tongue weight. Even figuring an average of 13% of that number puts you at 1150 lbs. Then add another 75-100 lbs of W.D. hitch and it doesn't leave much for everything else.....passengers, etc. Personally, I would be looking for either a bigger tow vehicle or a smaller camper. Life on the edge of towing capacity isn't fun, take it from those of us that have been there and didn't enjoy the towing part of the camping lifestyle.
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Old 04-25-2019, 06:16 AM   #11
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If you read through the "towing threads" on this (or any other forum) you'll find as many threads about "towing on the upper edge" as you care to read. Almost every one of them from a novice camper who was warned that he needed a bigger tow vehicle or a smaller trailer. Over and over, the common theme is "don't risk your family's safety by towing on the upper edge of the truck manufacturer's advertising agenda".... Over and over, novice RV'ers choose to ignore the advice of experienced RV owners and "go for it anyway".... Over and over, they come back (almost always within the first 6 RV excursions) and report that they've bought a new "bigger tow vehicle" and are enjoying their RV.

Why would anyone ignore the advice of seasoned RV users and "risk their family's safety" ???? I think I can answer that by saying, "We're blinded by the allure of a camper so our family can enjoy being together with some ability to remain comfortable while traveling."

What many fail to realize is that the RV salesman couldn't care less about your family's safety, he's only concerned in selling you the biggest trailer (most profit) that he can talk you into buying. So, his bottom line: Sure, your Expedition can tow anything we've got on the lot.

OP, you came here asking if the Expedition is "OK to tow this trailer", you've pretty much got a "majority opinion" that it's NOT OK to tow that trailer. So now, the decision is yours. We all hope you make the right choices !!!!!
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Old 04-25-2019, 05:24 PM   #12
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See my trailer below, loaded tongue wt. has been weighted at 920 lbs not the 560 the book said.
Common problem with new RVers, many use the wrong data. Use the max. towing of a TV and the empty dry wt of the TT. Use the Max. of both and work from there.
I do not read every article in RV magazines, but one's I have read tend to show tests at around 75% of the TVs rated ability when matching a RV to tow for tests.
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Old 05-02-2019, 09:08 AM   #13
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I had a 2007 Lincoln Navigator with the 5.7L engine, with the tow package. Hopefully they are better now, but mine was not very good at towing. The wheel base was too short and it was not reliable. I sold it after Ford told me it was normal to need a new engine at 70,000 miles.
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Old 05-02-2019, 10:00 AM   #14
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The trend I see is that vehicle manufacturers are not producing options for heavy duty people haulers any more. I don't think you can get a 2500 series Suburban/Yukon from GM anymore. The Econoline has been replaced by the Transit. A Sprinter Van tow capacity does not welcome more than 7000 lbs. So it seems that a people hauler can only tow a small light weight trailer safely.
This means that the only option available I see for a tow vehicle that seats more than 5 or 6 people would be a school bus on a medium duty chassis.
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