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Old 08-24-2015, 09:45 AM   #1
cospilot
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opinion request thinking of selling my TT

so it seems my family situation is changing a little.
the 14 yr old doesn't seem to be that interested in camping anymore.
the wife and I have now begun doing a little 4 wheeling together (it fits in the bed of the truck)
and I feel like the bunk house in back is mostly wasted space.
so I have been looking at different campers and I feel I want the floor plan that has the rear living or rear entertainment center instead of bunks.
I want 3 slide outs.

my current camper is a 2014 Premiere 32BHPR
for those of you who followed my threads I pretty much stole the camper at a dealer who was wholesaling them out.
this would be my first camper and we bought it only 7 months ago. we've camped enough times to know what we do and don't like about the camper.

at this point I am looking at forest river products.
in particular the Rockwood signature series.
it seems they have a few things going for them most don't.
one feature I like is the integrated AC ducts in the dense foam roof. seems a better way to insulate and the roof is walkable with ladder included.
I will be mounting a portable sat dish on it when camping.
also has a large screen TV inside.
thinking of getting the diamond or platinum package as well with solid surface countertops.

I am still new to the camping scene, not even a year of experience yet.
I would welcome any feedback any of you veterans who have owned a few campers before in the past.

I am looking for something that is a little better fit and finish than the premiere line. the premiere has some nice features but from what I can tell it is a middle of the road type design. there are some a lot cheaper and others more upscale.
on the weight I am also impressed with the rockwood weight for the amount of features and build quality.
also like the centralized hook up locations and power support jacks. I believe it also comes with a wireless remote for setup.

I just installed 2 brand new Max air fans in the bathroom and kitchen yesterday afternoon. I got them on amazon and got them pretty cheap. my labor is free and I feel we will camp another 2 times since I already have reservations to take our camper so I thought what the heck? I think it adds value to the next buyer if we do sell it. hopefully what I paid considering most will have to pay labor as well to install them.
they come or can be installed on the rockwood as options.

I am looking to buy from RVwholesalers.com because I can save a lot of money to sell mine privately and making the drive save a lot on shipping and they offer additional discounts to use their financing.
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Old 08-24-2015, 10:29 AM   #2
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You've spent some time in your RV now and lots of times that is what it takes to find what works and doesn't work.....and it appears you've found some of those things.

Choosing a new RV is a daunting task. There are so many of them and so many levels of trim from basic, entry level trailers with plastic trim, bath, commode, counters etc. to top of the line with all the luxury appointments. Keep in mind that the more "luxurious" you go the more weight you will gain.

Determine who will use it, how it will be used and how you want the interior configured before you start looking or you may be looking for the next 3 years.

As far as Rockwood these are my personal opinions and experiences. When we began the search for our last trailer purchased in 2014, Rockwood was on our final list. We wanted upper end appointments, good fit and finish, real, live wood trim etc. etc. On our final eliminations, doing some pretty comprehensive analysis on each individual unit, we just found the Rockwood had some QC, or manufacturing, issues. Most alarming to us was the fact that you could see daylight thru the bottoms of the slides on the ends and the trim level just wasn't as nice as we wanted. The slide issue wasn't on one unit, it was both. We chose a Keystone product.

Most RV manufacturers use similar building techniques and many trailer lines are built almost identically. Do some thorough research. Look the trailers over very carefully prior to purchase, pick one and go enjoy it. Good luck on your search and purchase.
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Old 08-24-2015, 07:14 PM   #3
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I don't know much about the Rockwood line, but we considered a Forrest River Cedar Creek before we bought our Alpine. In fact, I was confident with everything I saw and read about them and how they were built that our next 5er was a Cedar Creek. Then we drove 2+ hours to the closest dealership to look at them, I have never been more disappointed in an RV. I expected so much more than what we were seeing. There was just so many areas that seemed unfinished I had a hard time believing I was looking at a $90k luxury RV. While we were at he dealership we also looked at Open Range and Columbus 5th wheels, both brands seemed so much nicer than the Cedar Creek for considerably less money, but neither compared to our Alpine.
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Old 08-25-2015, 03:18 AM   #4
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Keep in mind that " the 14 year old doesn't seem that interested in camping." Rest assured that won't change in the coming four years. After he/she's 18 he'll either be away at college or you can "break their plate." But for the next four years that child is yours to, can I use the word "contend" with? Maybe it would be best to drop the RV search for a few years and concentrate on other interests.
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Old 08-25-2015, 03:59 PM   #5
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Keep in mind that " the 14 year old doesn't seem that interested in camping." Rest assured that won't change in the coming four years. After he/she's 18 he'll either be away at college or you can "break their plate." But for the next four years that child is yours to, can I use the word "contend" with? Maybe it would be best to drop the RV search for a few years and concentrate on other interests.
that is not the issue, she does not want to sleep on the bunk beds in back when she does come with us. other times she does not go it is because she wants to hang out with her older sister who has since moved out.
she is a little over weight and self conscience about that. the bunks state they have a 150 lb weight restriction on them.
and until that was discovered she was happy in the bunk.
now she sleeps on the fold out sofa.

the new camper has a similar sofa and if no one plans to sleep on the bunks i see no reason in having that wasted space back there.

i also realized there are no windows in the keystone worth mentioning. the rears are in the bunks. the pass side are in the master bedroom and kitchen and none in front.
it makes for a pretty dark interior leaving only the ones on the slide-out useful at all.
i think i want a more open floor plan. i like the power driven stabilizer jacks, the fact it's already wired for sat and cable, it has a walk on roof and ladder. more interior space, better insulation, a water filter, and a 5.1 surround receiver standard.
i plan to watch TV while camping so a lot of those things are important to ME
the good news is im being offered within 1k of what i bought it for as a trade in at the dealer since i bought it at wholesale.

i may end up advertising locally to see if i can get 25k for it, i know retail is around 30K i can get the new forest river for only 27K from a wholesaler (retail 44k) but they wont take my trade i have to unload it on my own.
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Old 08-26-2015, 05:10 AM   #6
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The loss of living space is why we never bought a bunkhouse. Space for the kids to sleep is also why we sold our last 5er with the rear living room. The design of our last 5th wheel had the recliners across the back window and the kitchen and living room side by side on opposing slides. When the kids set up their beds (daughters sleep on the sofa bed, son puts a twin air mattress on the floor) we couldn't get to/use anything in the kitchen. Our new Alpine has the rear entertainment with the living room across the back and the kitchen center. Now I can still get up, go to the kitchen and make a cup of coffee in the keurig and go outside to enjoy the sunrise. Our son is 16 and is started to find other interests and has skipped a few camping trips now. The sleep sofa has the drawer underneath where we store the bedding for the girls. They are also teenagers so I suspect it won't be long before we are camping with just the two of us.
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Old 08-26-2015, 05:50 PM   #7
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It sounds like you've already talked yourself into the Rockwood. We looked them for our recent purchase and it was my choice. When we went to another dealership my wife found the Premier 30RIPR and she fell in love with the floor plan.

Considering it was $10k less my vote was overruled. The only real feature I miss not having is the second AC.


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Old 08-29-2015, 05:00 AM   #8
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we are making the 2 hour track today to see the rocked in the CAR this way it will be pretty tough to bring it home! lol
but i think i want to at least look it over first.
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Old 08-29-2015, 05:43 AM   #9
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The Premiere 32BHPR is not the only trailer Keystone makes and most other models have walkable roofs and ladders standard. Since you carry an ATV in the bed, be very careful with your new tongue weight and payload. Good luck in your search and try not to be too impulsive when shopping, Hank
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Old 08-29-2015, 05:54 PM   #10
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Keep in mind that " the 14 year old doesn't seem that interested in camping." Rest assured that won't change in the coming four years. After he/she's 18 he'll either be away at college or you can "break their plate." But for the next four years that child is yours to, can I use the word "contend" with? Maybe it would be best to drop the RV search for a few years and concentrate on other interests.
X2 That's what we had to do. When the kids had so many Junior/Senior H.S. activities on weekends and all summer it wasn't worth keeping the motorhome for me to use just for hunting. Got them out of college, we retired, and got back into RV's.
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Old 08-29-2015, 06:57 PM   #11
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We're now on our fourth "Trailer" in about 15 yrs, we've learned so much with each one. This last upgrade to our Cougar took about 3 years to finally make. We went to a lot of RV Shows where we could just look and feel at our own pace.

What we learned is that there are only so many layouts, they all copy each other. Finishes although can vary in quality, they are all still RV Quality finishes. We narrowed it down to two "brands" carried locally and went back and forth a few times looking. Then it all boiled down to over all user comments in general forums just like this one.

Ask some local dealers about RV Shows, they are the best!
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Old 08-30-2015, 12:42 PM   #12
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Well we saw the rockwood yesterday I think I'm sold on it. It has a lot of things my premiere did not come with not to mention a lot of wiring I had to do to the keystone.
For example it's already wired for satellite because the antenna for the bedroom terminates at the main TV location so if you want to feed a signal from your dish receiver, you just plug it right in.
I thought I would have to add speakers for the surround sound, nope they are already integrated into the ceiling. No need to add awning lights, already included on both awnings.
Wintering is a piece of cake, it's designed to suck the red stuff right out of the jug.
The slide out couch bed is actually comfortable to sit on.
Solid surface countertops you can put a hot pan on and actual counter space you can spread out on. Our premiere only has room around the sink to place things. My current has exactly 2 drawers in the kitchen. The rockwood has 7 drawers and a multitude of cabinets.
I just installed 2 max air fans and the rockwood comes with them installed.

After we took a good look at everything we stopped at another dealer on the way home and found a keystone diamond edition that we really liked seems better built than our premiere but lacks a lot of standard features of the rockwood and is heavier. They showed us several different brands and models of similar rear entertainment designs but none were as light and as feature packed as the rockwood.
I've decided my best bet is to sell the premiere on my own and buy from a wholesaler, but have given the dealer till Monday to search the best interest rate and call me back with their best offer. If they are unable to get my payments to 320 or less per month with my trade without going longer than a 15 year term I'll probably just wait till mine sells


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Old 08-30-2015, 12:46 PM   #13
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Check out the Grand Design Reflection series as well. The one thing I didn't like on the Rockwood was that it had practically no storage space outside. Very small pass through front storage and a seemingly useless little triangular opening in the slide.

Looking at the Reflection it had most everything I remember the Rockwood having, minus the soft close drawers, but has a massive amount of storage outside, plus a wet bay that is just like a fifth wheel for your hookups.


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Old 08-30-2015, 01:54 PM   #14
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Yes we saw the grand reflection it is s very nice unit. Seriously considered it but it weighs a little too much and costs a lot too much because there aren't any wholesalers I can find that carry it.
Agree about the storage on the rockwood however considering we don't travel more than about 2 hours away and usually not for more than 2-3 days at a time I think it will work fine for me. I also plan to remove that fake wall behind the fireplace as I think there is more dead space back there and I think I might find some additional storage in there.
But I can sum up what is in my storage
2 sewer hoses (1 fits in bumper) 2 water hoses, sewer slunky, 5 lawn chairs some wood and wood blocks to put under jacks, wheel chocks, a small multi tool kit and a bottle jack.
I think the small items will fit in the small cubby right side and the larger items in the left along with the hoses since all the hookups are on that side. Anything I might need near a camp fire will be on the right.
There is a portable grill is the only large item that has to go on the left


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Old 08-31-2015, 06:22 PM   #15
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well i think this transaction is official!
got the loan approval today and by some miracle they managed to get the interest rate i pay now and for a payment that is just 20 bucks a month higher than my current payment.
I've come to the conclusion it is simply not worth my time to try to tell the unit on my own. i am getting within 1,000 of what i paid for the camper just 6 months ago.
the 32BHPR does not seem to be a very popular floor plan it seems it only ran for 2013-2015 and now that i have owned one i know why.
just for starters you can sleep 10 people in it, but there is only room for 6 to actually sit down and they would all be shoulder to shoulder in a somewhat cramped floor plan.
i think with the out door kitchen this camper would be best suited for a family with 4 small kids who mostly play out side.

with that in mind my fear is that if i tried to sell it locally online i have a limited market and not nearly the time or patience to try to get it sold to move onto another unit.
despite my dealer being over 100 miles away i think the ease of dropping my old one off and towing another home without the hassle is worth whatever money i might have saved if i took the time to sell and buy as a reduced price from a midwestern dealer.
so i am headed up to the dealer friday morning to pick it up.

sorry ill be leaving the keystone forum some good folks here!
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Old 08-31-2015, 06:25 PM   #16
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Congrats. I bet you'll love the Rockwood. It seems like a great trailer!


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Old 08-31-2015, 06:48 PM   #17
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I had a rock wood for about a year. All those electrical items you love so much were nothing but an electrical nightmare. Had so much trouble with it I traded it in for my Laredo that has been great. I don't think the rock wood was even in the same class as my Laredo. But I wish you the best.
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Old 08-31-2015, 10:21 PM   #18
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that is not the issue, ...

i may end up advertising locally to see if i can get 25k for it, i know retail is around 30K i can get the new forest river for only 27K from a wholesaler (retail 44k) but they wont take my trade i have to unload it on my own.
Maybe it's just me, but you're selling a USED trailer for 25K that is worth 30K to buy a NEW trailer that's worth 44K that they are selling for 27K? Is that a "step up" in quality or ???

Seems to me you're buying a trailer that's valued at less than what you've currently got yet considering the "new one" a better trailer?

It's your decision and I wish you the best with whatever that decision may be, but from your description of the values of both trailers, it's a step down from what you currently have. Am I missing something?
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Old 09-01-2015, 01:29 AM   #19
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opinion request thinking of selling my TT

No I'm selling a used 2014 trailer that was worth around 32k (msrp was like 39k) when new that I only paid 23k for to a dealer that will pay me 22k as a trade in for a 2015 msrp of 44k asking price of 36,400

Now keep in mind that I paid 2k less than any of my local dealers could have even bought my keystone for because the WI dealer I got the keystone from was blowing out all their keystone inventory to carry forest river. Meanwhile any CO dealer would have had to pay an additional 2k for destination charges. In fact another member here paid 26 for the exact same unit I got from the same dealer just months earlier. So first of all I bought it right. And saved a couple grand by doing the driving to get it.


Granted I could sell the old for 25k-30k and go buy this new from another Midwest wholesaler for 30k but I just don't think it will sell locally that easily. I have a feeling I'll be sitting on this camper waiting for 25k till next spring used campers are hard to sell and there are several examples of that online. Here is a brand new 2015 a dealer is selling for just over 26 http://m.rvtrader.com/dealers/Tulsa-...BHPR-112927239
So how can you say it's worth 30 when they are selling a model year newer for 26? And I paid 23?
The dealer would be able to sell me the rockwood for less if there was no trade in.
I called 3 other dealers who had a rockwood in stock 1 won't take any trades as a wholesaler, another offered me 14k for my trade to buy their rockwood at 30k
And another offered me 17k to buy theirs at 33k that is a 15k difference in either example but the deal I have is a 14.5k difference.
If I sell on my own and get lucky for a quick sale at 24 I also have to pay another 3 k in taxes. By trading it in I only pay 1k in taxes so I save 2k in the trade in scenario. If I then buy new from a wholesaler at 30 I save 7k on the purchase -2k in additional taxes bring the net savings to 5k

I look at it this way it's not worth my time to sell locally to save 5k and be stuck with it till next season. Frankly I don't like the keystone anymore. On the surface it's a nice trailer but in practice I hate that I have to climb over the toilet to take a shower. I hate that I don't have but 1 small kitchen window to see out of on the right side. I hate the terribly uncomfortable tri fold sofa, the lack of counter space, lack of drawers and cupboards and the wasted space that is the out door kitchen that I've never used 1 single time that takes up an already cramped interior space having only 1 slide to begin with.
This was my FIRST camper you have had several so you know from experience what you like. I went to an RV show in January and waded through about 300 units trying to learn the brands, features, appointments, designs ect. We ended up getting a great deal on something that I considered a good starting point. Having never spent a single night in any camper it is impossible to know what you like and what you don't and what suits your needs without a starting point.
My kid finally admitted last night that she thinks she is too fat to sleep in the bunks with the listed 150lb weight limit.
So for that reason she no longer wants to sleep back there. So for the reasons I've mentioned and the fact she won't sleep in the bunks I have absolutely no use for the rear 1/3 of my 35 feet of camper. We should have bought the 30RIPR which still seems a popular model.
But I want a master bed with a slide because without a slide the master bedrooms are so small I cannot even change clothes without stepping out of the bedroom.
I also want the ability to entertain guests or have people over to watch a game or a movie and my current camper offers a 42" TV and a crappy tri fold sofa that 2 adults are shoulder to shoulder on and a dinette with a saggy table that is so small 2 people are cramped sitting at.

Like I told my DW at first glance out keystone is a great trailer, in practice it is cramped and until you've lived in it a few times impractical for my needs and interests.
So there you have it! Lol
I won't even get into the quality discussion here because everyone here thinks keystone is better. For a lot of reasons I disagree. While no brand is really built with quality in a light weight. Many things that are standard on a rockwood simply are not found in the keystone lineup at any level. The roof insulation that is one item that comes to mind I also don't like how tall the keystone is. I feel like a semi truck is behind me! The rockwood is a full foot lower!
So if I'm losing 5-7k by doing this transaction now verses selling and buying again I don't care because I don't want to spend another night in this unit frustrated with it. I have reservations for labor day weekend this Friday and I am looking forward to spending it in the rockwood.
Considering I'm going to get nearly what I paid for the keystone, I feel pretty good about it.
In hindsight I wish I was more experienced before I bought it's a delicate balance between build quality and features. Both of witch cause a weight penalty and my 1/2 ton is only rated to tow 9200 lbs so a lot of the nicer better built units are too heavy and I just bought a new truck. I did not want a 3/4 ton for a lot of other reasons that I won't get into here.
Obviously my mind is made up! Wish you all the best!
Happy trails!


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Old 09-01-2015, 02:31 AM   #20
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opinion request thinking of selling my TT

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I had a rock wood for about a year. All those electrical items you love so much were nothing but an electrical nightmare. Had so much trouble with it I traded it in for my Laredo that has been great. I don't think the rock wood was even in the same class as my Laredo. But I wish you the best.

Good thing for me I've been into electronics since I was 8! And for about 10 years I was a car audio installer. 12 volt is my 2nd language! So I welcome the challenge! As a matter of fact I bet you I could teach a class to the clowns they hire at a dealership in the service department.
Let's face it service department techs are really just guys who couldn't make it in automotive repair.
As it turns out I know a lot about plumbing, electrical and automotive repair as well.
The dealers love to tell me how buying from a wholesaler in the Midwest cannot service my unit whereas they have this wonderful service department bla bla.
The only time any of my cars or my camper will ever see a service bay is if it is covered under warranty and I get free parts and labor! Otherwise I can do the job faster and for less money than any service monkey can do it.
I've got all the tools and I don't need to make an appointment!
It's funny how you say that forest river has electrical problems because every manufacturer uses either domedic or 1 of 2 other brands for every single appliance in a camper. Beyond that you have a simple 12 volt electrical system that consists of a charger, a battery, wires, fuses and switches. 1 thing that usually never fails is the wires. Sure connections can come loose but easily traced to the source with a simple test light and some basic electronics knowledge.
Between that and forums like this combined with the fact there are so many people with the same units and the same problems it is very easy to track down a solution.
For example.. I already know that the stereo in my rockwood has issues! There is a 23 page thread about it in the forest river forum complete with names and phone numbers about who to call and how to get a replacement with updated software. My dealer agreed to swap out the radio with one from their 2016 model as a quick fix before I take ownership. Worst case I can request a free replacement and swap it in 5 minutes.
If any component, or appliance fails in the coach and can either find a fix in these forums or discover my own, or just replace the faulty parts with new.

See for me at least I've always lived by this simple fact in life. If a human being built something and a human can fix it when it breaks, there is no reason as long as I can read, write and speak English. Have 10 fingers and the tools that I cannot do for myself what others just pay someone to do.

None the of these campers are problem free. I've already replaced my dinette table that warped. And now the warranty table is again warping!
My solution was to screw 2 pieces of angle iron to the underside of it. Why keystone thought it was a smart idea to use a piece of particle board, attach1 end to the wall and the other end to a leg and expect a sheet of glued together sawdust product to hold it's shape is beyond stupid in design. They have easily spent 2x the cost replacing warped ones under warranty when a piece of plywood would have been stronger, lighter and resistant to warpage since it is made with layers laminated together. Marine grade plywood would have been an excellent choice.
I also had to reattach the drawer stay under the dinette seat because they used too short of a screw to attach it to the floor. After my first trip out.
Also who's idea was it to put the water heater bypass valve under the bunk bed without an access cover? I have to take the whole mattress out and remove the bed flooring to get to the valve. Brilliant!
There are definitely a few things keystone can improve on but I don't think any brand name is miles better than another they will all have problems eventually.
But I can sympathize with your frustration if you have to rely on the service department, their incompetent staff and their too busy to resolve your problem schedule, not to mention your wasted time to take it in to resolve your electrical problems only to have it not fixed correctly.
I simply don't need their "help" to fix any problems that may come up. Therefore electrical problems for me become a non issue.
I get more frustrated with having to re engineer a stupid cost saving design flaw such as a table that warped because it is covered in a veneer it would be hard to have it re-made to match so I can't just replace it, I have to modify it instead.
Electronics on the other hand are easy to find and replace!



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