Torque settings when changing tires - is it necessary?

[mikehoyt]

2022 Keystone Passport 221BH purchased new in June 2024

Currently has the factory tires. Approx 1200miles but also sat on a lot for 2 years. Have purchased set of four Goodyear Endurance tires. Plan is to jack up one side (by driving front or rear wheel onto adequate blocking), remove one wheel, replace with spare and then drive the spare wheel onto the blocking and remove other wheel. Then I take both wheels to my garage and have them install the Endurance. Re-install the wheels and do same on other side. Doing this way because my garage doesn't do RV trailers on site but will do wheels and it is much cheaper than the tire center

In the past whenever I changed tires (winter to summer, brake jobs, etc..) on my cars I just tightened til felt tight. Used a breaker bar to get a bit extra. Have been thinking I should use Torque wrench to torque to spec .. especially on a travel trailer

So what do we set the torque to? Should I even bother with a torque wrench?

Follow up question - what should I do with the old tires since they have almost no wear? (they are the OEM tires)

Thanks

Mike

 

[Maineiacs]

If I recall correctly, it's recommended that tires be torqued to 110 pounds. And checked for torque after 500 miles. Yes, it's important. Even a Harbor Freight torque wrench will do the job.

 

[JRTJH]

There are some SIGNIFICANT differences between automobile wheels/hubs and trailer wheels/hubs....

Most automobile wheels are "hub centric" which means the center hole of the wheel is engineered to fit snugly around the center of the hub. Then "flat lug nuts" or "angled lug nuts" are used to secure the "already centered wheel" to the hub using lug nuts"...

On trailers, the wheels are "lug centric" which means the center of the wheel is "oversized to fit all hubs with the correct lug spacing"... The wheel does not "center on the hub" but rather it "centers on the lugs as they are sequentially tightened"... So, it's important to properly tighten the lug nuts in a specific pattern to "pull the wheel into the center position" on the hub.

So, to answer your question, YES, it is important to properly torque wheels on a lug centric axle. Otherwise, no matter how well you balance the tire, you risk the wheel not being properly centered which can lead to a "bouncing tire at high speed" which can lead to premature tire failure as well as trailer tracking problems.

Check your Keystone Owner's Manual for the specific sequence and the proper sequential torque values. I'm posting a screen shot from the owner's manual for you. It's not the complete sequence, but gives you the values of the torque settings and the reminder to check/recheck torque on each lug nut at 50 miles after changing the wheel. If you don't have the Keystone Owner's Manual you can download it here: Unlock Your Journey: Owner's Manuals for Keystone RV just click on the correct year...

 

[chuckster57]

Torque value will depend on type of rim. Aluminum rims take less torque on the lugs than steel as I remember. Rechecking after 50 miles is critical as we check them at PDI and have found some loose.

 

[jsb5717]

^^^what they said. I don't know if there's any variable in torque specs based on wheel size. I know that ours are spec'd for 120 ft lbs. I've had ours off a few times over the years and have always been careful to step up to the 120 lbs and then recheck at 25 and 50 miles first time out. The first couple checks will usually require a little more torqueing on one or two lugs before they stay seated. IMHO the correct torque is important to avoid over-torqueing, which can damage the wheel and/or bind and ruin the lug or lug nut threads.

Once ours are properly torqued I do spot check them throughout a trip. I've never had one come loose.

 

[flybouy]

Torque values are not wheel size specific. It is stud size specific. Always refer to the paperwork that came with your trailer. I believe you can find that on the website of the axle manufacturer as well.

 

[mikehoyt]

There are some SIGNIFICANT differences between automobile wheels/hubs and trailer wheels/hubs....

Most automobile wheels are "hub centric" which means the center hole of the wheel is engineered to fit snugly around the center of the hub. Then "flat lug nuts" or "angled lug nuts" are used to secure the "already centered wheel" to the hub using lug nuts"...

On trailers, the wheels are "lug centric" which means the center of the wheel is "oversized to fit all hubs with the correct lug spacing"... The wheel does not "center on the hub" but rather it "centers on the lugs as they are sequentially tightened"... So, it's important to properly tighten the lug nuts in a specific pattern to "pull the wheel into the center position" on the hub.

So, to answer your question, YES, it is important to properly torque wheels on a lug centric axle. Otherwise, no matter how well you balance the tire, you risk the wheel not being properly centered which can lead to a "bouncing tire at high speed" which can lead to premature tire failure as well as trailer tracking problems.

Check your Keystone Owner's Manual for the specific sequence and the proper sequential torque values. I'm posting a screen shot from the owner's manual for you. It's not the complete sequence, but gives you the values of the torque settings and the reminder to check/recheck torque on each lug nut at 50 miles after changing the wheel. If you don't have the Keystone Owner's Manual you can download it here: Unlock Your Journey: Owner's Manuals for Keystone RV just click on the correct year...

Thank You

Are the two sets of numbers for two different nut sizes?

Mike

 

[NH_Bulldog]

It is based on stud sizes (and by extension, nut sizes).

The nuts will be 3/4”, 13/16” or 7/8” corresponding to studs that are 1/2”, 9/16” or 5/8”. These sizes would be found on 5-lug, 6-lug and 8-lug hubs respectively. In the manual, the first set of torque numbers apply to the 5-lug wheel and the other set of numbers apply to the 6-lug wheel.

As John detailed, it is important to use proper torque in order to seat the wheels on the hubs correctly.

 

[jsb5717]

It is based on stud sizes (and by extension, nut sizes).

The nuts will be 3/4”, 13/16” or 7/8” corresponding to studs that are 1/2”, 9/16” or 5/8”. These sizes would be found on 5-lug, 6-lug and 8-lug hubs respectively. In the manual, the first set of torque numbers apply to the 5-lug wheel and the other set of numbers apply to the 6-lug wheel.

As John detailed, it is important to use proper torque in order to seat the wheels on the hubs correctly.

I'm not sure it always breaks down like this. My 8 lug wheels have 1/2" lugs and I use a 3/4" deep socket on them. They get torqued to 120 lbs.

 

[JRTJH]

I believe the only two lug diameters that Keystone has used in the past several years are 1/2" and 9/16 inch. The half inch lugs are used on almost all Keystone trailers regardless of wheel diameter. The 9/16" lugs are primarily used on the "heavy toyhauler fifth wheels" but there may be some larger heavy trailers with those lugs as well. To my knowledge, the half inch lugs are on 14", 15" and many/most 16" wheels while the 9/16" lugs are all on 16" wheels.

 

[GordKey22]

I have always torqued mine to 110#
When I changed out the original tires I had the spare done first.
Lift one side and swap out one wheel with the spare, pull the other wheel and get them done.
The trailer always had three wheels on the ground.

 

[jasin1]

Wonder if the lug nuts should be replaced after so many cycles of removing and retorqueing….When i do an engine rebuild i always replace the head bolts and other critical fasteners that have high torque values…head bolts will stretch for example and shouldn’t be reused in most cases

 

[JRTJH]

Wonder if the lug nuts should be replaced after so many cycles of removing and retorqueing….When i do an engine rebuild i always replace the head bolts and other critical fasteners that have high torque values…head bolts will stretch for example and shouldn’t be reused in most cases

I think I'd be more concerned with the actual lugs rather than the lug nuts. I'd suspect they stretch more (like head bolts rather than the threaded inserts in the block) over how much the lug nuts stretch. That said, there are at least 3 different styles of "lug nuts" ranging from "open lug nuts" (similar to regular threaded nuts) to "plastic or metal covered open lug nuts" to "closed end solid lug nuts" which can be much stronger and "stretch resistant" than the shorter, open face type... But, IMO, it's the bolt that stretches the most while the lug tends to weaken along its side, not length.

I'd think that "improper torque application" rather than material failure is the greatest reason for lug/lug nut damage... When retorquing a nut, the correct process is to loosen the nut, then use the torque wrench to retighten. When the friction holds, the torque wrench "clicks" and the correct torque is achieved. If you don't loosen first, you don't "stop at the friction point" but rather you "add to the friction tightness" which puts added stress on the bolt, causing it to stretch. The result is material weakness.....

Also, the "correct way to retorque" is to do one complete lug, loosen/retorque before advancing to the next. As an example, if you loosen all 5, 6 or 8 lugs at once, then retorque, you also "lose the wheel/hub centering" which is what you achieved by the sequential torque advancement in the initial torque application. If you loosen then all at once, it's the same as threading the lugs, lowering the wheel to t he ground and then torquing them all to the maximum recommended torque. You might induce twist, bow the wheel and won't achieve "lug centric centering of the wheel/tire on the hub"....

Is any of this "critical to a travel trailer" ??? Maybe, maybe not. It depends on how close to "product failure at maximum performance requirements. On some trailers with a GVWR of 10K and two 6K axles, there's a lot of "overkill in axle ratings, both on the lugs and the bearings/races"... On a 9K trailer with 4K axles that depends on a 1K tongue weight to carry the load, the stress on the lugs/hubs, bearings/races is significantly closer to "maximum performance ratings"... Hit a pothole on the first trailer, you likely won't do much (if any damage).. Hit that same pothole on the second trailer, you might "uncage a bearing, twist a spindle or stretch a lug to its breaking point. That risk increases if the lug is over-torqued or the wheel is off center....

Bottom line (to me) a travel trailer suspension isn't "rocket science". At the same time, it's also not "bailing wire and duct tape technology" either. The trailer suspension needs to be "respected" for what it is and how close most trailers are to their "maximum performance ratings"... As always, YMMV.

ADDED: The reason for doing a retorque at 50 miles is to retighten any potential loose lug which might have recentered through the stressors of that 50 miles. That's an "individual lug recheck"... If you loosen them all, essentially the condition you've created is the same as when you first installed the wheel (all lugs potentially not centered) and you, then at the 50 mile recheck, created the same condition that imposed the need for the recheck... In other words, if you loosen them all, you're effectively starting over at square one...

 

[jasin1]

I think I'd be more concerned with the actual lugs rather than the lug nuts. I'd suspect they stretch more (like head bolts rather than the threaded inserts in the block) over how much the lug nuts stretch. That said, there are at least 3 different styles of "lug nuts" ranging from "open lug nuts" (similar to regular threaded nuts) to "plastic or metal covered open lug nuts" to "closed end solid lug nuts" which can be much stronger and "stretch resistant" than the shorter, open face type... But, IMO, it's the bolt that stretches the most while the lug tends to weaken along its side, not length.

I'd think that "improper torque application" rather than material failure is the greatest reason for lug/lug nut damage... When retorquing a nut, the correct process is to loosen the nut, then use the torque wrench to retighten. When the friction holds, the torque wrench "clicks" and the correct torque is achieved. If you don't loosen first, you don't "stop at the friction point" but rather you "add to the friction tightness" which puts added stress on the bolt, causing it to stretch. The result is material weakness.....

Also, the "correct way to retorque" is to do one complete lug, loosen/retorque before advancing to the next. As an example, if you loosen all 5, 6 or 8 lugs at once, then retorque, you also "lose the wheel/hub centering" which is what you achieved by the sequential torque advancement in the initial torque application. If you loosen then all at once, it's the same as threading the lugs, lowering the wheel to t he ground and then torquing them all to the maximum recommended torque. You might induce twist, bow the wheel and won't achieve "lug centric centering of the wheel/tire on the hub"....

Is any of this "critical to a travel trailer" ??? Maybe, maybe not. It depends on how close to "product failure at maximum performance requirements. On some trailers with a GVWR of 10K and two 6K axles, there's a lot of "overkill in axle ratings, both on the lugs and the bearings/races"... On a 9K trailer with 4K axles that depends on a 1K tongue weight to carry the load, the stress on the lugs/hubs, bearings/races is significantly closer to "maximum performance ratings"... Hit a pothole on the first trailer, you likely won't do much (if any damage).. Hit that same pothole on the second trailer, you might "uncage a bearing, twist a spindle or stretch a lug to its breaking point. That risk increases if the lug is over-torqued or the wheel is off center....

Bottom line (to me) a travel trailer suspension isn't "rocket science". At the same time, it's also not "bailing wire and duct tape technology" either. The trailer suspension needs to be "respected" for what it is and how close most trailers are to their "maximum performance ratings"... As always, YMMV.

yeah the wheel studs and nuts are probably made in China along with most of the other parts involved in RV manufacturing …not the best quality…So over torquing could cause issues….especially when someone uses a impact gun to tighten the lug nuts…even a 1/2” battery impact gun can put a lot of stress…and if you go to a tire shop they can really do a number on them…you never see those guys using a torque wrench

Better to use the impact to loosen and remove lug nuts and also to snug up when replacing the wheel but use a torque wrench after that…Don’t use a impact at max torque to fully tighten wheel lugs

 

[LHaven]

When retorquing a nut, the correct process is to loosen the nut, then use the torque wrench to retighten...
If you don't loosen first, you don't "stop at the friction point" but rather you "add to the friction tightness" which puts added stress on the bolt, causing it to stretch. The result is material weakness.....

ADDED: The reason for doing a retorque at 50 miles is to retighten any potential loose lug which might have recentered through the stressors of that 50 miles. That's an "individual lug recheck"... If you loosen them all, essentially the condition you've created is the same as when you first installed the wheel (all lugs potentially not centered) and you, then at the 50 mile recheck, created the same condition that imposed the need for the recheck... In other words, if you loosen them all, you're effectively starting over at square one...

I had no idea. I have always "added to the friction tightness." I thought the whole idea of retorquing at 10/25/50 (and then from time to time after) was just to "retighten any potential loose lug which might have recentered through the stressors of that X miles." I would never have loosened an individual lug before retorquing it for fear I was "effectively starting over at square one." But now I learn I'm supposed to do exactly that, as long as I do only one at a time. Since I just had my wet bolts installed and my tech did an impact-wrench job to put all the wheels back, I guess I have another job to put on my list before my upcoming trip.

 

[Gearhead]

And most torque values are expressed assuming dry threads with maybe a drop or two of light oil.
Do not slather Nuclear Grade nickel based Never Seize all over them.

 

[Gearhead]

yeah the wheel studs and nuts are probably made in China along with most of the other parts involved in RV manufacturing …not the best quality…So over torquing could cause issues….especially when someone uses a impact gun to tighten the lug nuts…even a 1/2” battery impact gun can put a lot of stress…and if you go to a tire shop they can really do a number on them…you never see those guys using a torque wrench

Better to use the impact to loosen and remove lug nuts and also to snug up when replacing the wheel but use a torque wrench after that…Don’t use a impact at max torque to fully tighten wheel lugs

Discount Tire does use torque wrenches.