Out of stroke

[LHaven]

My Lippert four-point electrical levelers are giving me tsouris on this trip.

It's very precise about de-homing errors. ERROR LF. ERROR RR. I can work with that.

But then there's OUT OF STROKE.

I know what it means. But I don't know where it is. None of the jacks appear to be overextended. I add lego blocks under all of them and I can see that they aren't even lower than the tires. And yet, OUT OF STROKE.

Twice now on this trip, I had to send DW inside with my phone's level app and level the rig by hand, using the both-front, both-left, etc. pushbuttons. Yeah, I might be twisting it, but what else can I do?

I wish there were a way to find out WHICH jack was OUT OF STROKE so I could do something more meaningful about it.

 

[chuckster57]

I would consider resetting zero point.

 

[Wyldfire]

Autolevers have minimum and maximum turns needed to avoid out of stroke errors. To much blocking under the jacks causes out of stroke errors. Re-home the jacks remove blocking and try again
Bet your error goes away.

 

[Wyldfire]

If you look at the jacks they have a screw mechanism with a sensor. The sensor counts the revolutions. The brains are calibrated to accept something like 100 revolutions plus or minus 25. So if only 74 revolutions are counted an out of stroke errors occurs. Same for 126 revolutions. Most out of stroke errors I see is from to much blocking.

 

[LHaven]

This all started when we were handed a very uneven site. It started with OUT OF STROKE, and the more I tried to remedy that, the more it was followed by specific errors for several of the jacks by name. So I re-read the manual, learned about re-homing (apparently you can't just do the one it complains about, you have to do them all at once), and did that at the next campsite, which was quite level. The jacks then worked fine at that campsite, but when I encounter a campsite that is off level, the problem occurs again.

Re the previous posting: I was not aware that OUT OF STROKE was possible for too-short travel as well as too-long travel. That implies that some campsites (like uphill) may give this error no matter what I do.

 

[Wyldfire]

Out of level errors will remain till jacks are extended 6 inches and then retract all is selected. You can retract all to get them off the ground, then extend each jack 6 inches and hit retract all to clear error in system.

On unlevel sites I get trailer close to level side to side using blocking under low side tires. Then use same amount of blocking under jacks on low side. The hit autolevel once camper is plugged in. Doing this I never get an error unless the site is very un-level front to back where one set of jacks can't extend enough.

 

[Wyldfire]

Out of level errors will remain till jacks are extended 6 inches and then retract all is selected. You can retract all to get them off the ground, then extend each jack 6 inches and hit retract all to clear error in system.

On unlevel sites I get trailer close to level side to side using blocking under low side tires. Then use same amount of blocking under jacks on low side. The hit autolevel once camper is plugged in. Doing this I never get an error unless the site is very un-level front to back where one set of jacks can't extend enough. When this occurs I ignor the error if I'm level and go on camping. When getting ready to leave I will go through the error clearing sequence so it ready for the next trip

 

[jsb5717]

I know from experience that OOS errors don't necessarily mean that any of the jacks are Out Of Stroke. I fought those errors for 5 years. I disassembled the front jacks and found that they were grinding themselves apart. The internal shrapnel was causing binding. It showed up as OOS. After many, MANY calls to Lippert I finally replaced the front jacks. Not a problem since.

 

[Stircrazy]

Re the previous posting: I was not aware that OUT OF STROKE was possible for too-short travel as well as too-long travel. That implies that some campsites (like uphill) may give this error no matter what I do.

yup if it can't drop enough it will give a out of stroke just as if it can't raise anymore so to much blocking will do it just as well as to little blocking. it took me a couple trips to learn to estimate my blocking properly

 

[NH_Bulldog]

You could also try calling Lippert for some direction. When I first bought my Cougar, there was a discrepancy between the user manual & the instruction label in the passthrough compared to what I was getting on my control pad screen. They were great to work with and once we figured out the issue (the software had been updated but the written instructions hadn't), they gave me a lot of great information on the operation of the system. I have been on some VERY uneven sites and using what I have learned from them, I have yet to have the system throw an OOS error.

 

[LHaven]

I called Lippert today for some assistance. The agent suggested I reset the zero level. I told her I was willing, but my experience was that the more I fiddled with it manually, the more different errors it began throwing:

This all started when we were handed a very uneven site. It started with OUT OF STROKE, and the more I tried to remedy that, the more it was followed by specific errors for several of the jacks by name.

When she mumbled something about "voltage sensors" it dawned on me that this behavior might well be tied to the "low voltage" messages I've been getting for practically any DC load when I'm not on shore power (like one LED puck and the water pump when I'm using the WC at a rest stop). I know that despite being on shore power, operating a motor device like a slide or jack can deplete the "amperage reservoir" that can't be recharged as fast as it gets discharged.

My rig spends its entire life hooked up to shore power except when it's physically on the highway, and when actively being towed receives an even higher charge voltage than my WFCO converter supplies. My Interstate 24M is exactly one year and two weeks old, and therefore SOL as far as warranty. It gets maintained religiously through a Flow-Rite. I don't know how I could coddle it any more. The Interstate battery this one replaced gave me the same poor service profile -- one year and done. I know batteries are consumables, but not at this rate.

I'd consider going to two 6V batteries, but it would be better to understand why I am having such service life problems with the 12s, to avoid making the investment in time and money and then finding out nothing changes, and then the annual replacements will be twice the cost.

 

[NH_Bulldog]

We had two Interstate 27M batteries on our Passport. The dealer installed them both when we bought the camper. Every fall I would remove them from the camper, set them on my workbench connected in parallel and attached a Battery Tender Jr. Every spring, I put them back in the camper and repeated for 5 years. I checked the water level in the spring and fall, but never had to add a drop of water. When we sold the camper last spring going on its 6th year, I had the batteries load tested for the new owner and they were still going strong.

I am not sure what is going on with your RV, but it seems like something sure is eating up your battery. As you noted, the battery is intended to be the primary power source for all 12v DC loads, and the converter is intended to replenish the battery. It may be worth measuring the output of your converter with the battery disconnected. It should be putting out a continuous 13.6v. Any higher or lower would indicate a converter issue.

 

[LHaven]

inCommand says my voltage (charging on shore power) is 13.3V, my inexpensive DVM says 13.16, both with the battery connected. Don't really have the bandwidth to disconnect it today.

I have noticed that when I am towing, my alternator is charging the battery at 14 and a fraction volts. (I know this because the inCommand Bluetooth is strong enough to reach inside the truck.) Does this have a damaging effect on the battery? Is my truck atypical in this regard?

 

[Stircrazy]

the annual replacements will be twice the cost.

um, you change your batteries every year?

if that is the case you defiantly don't have enough batteries and/or are not charging them up soon enough, and you are draining them down to low and abusing them they should be lasting 5 years minimum, and if you have extra capacity and are only using them to 50% max, then there is no reason not to get over 5 years. also going to a GC2 6V deep cycle will be a more robust battery, but depending on what you have now and what you are saying I would be looking at 4 of them minimum.

 

[Viper02]

You stated battery is Single 24M ( Grp 24 )... thats a small battery for any fifth wheel ... IMO a minimum would be Two Grp 27 batteries

14 VDC from the truck alternator is normal operation... My current 2007 GMC reads that ALL the time...

If the water pump operation is dropping the voltage then either the battery is shot or you have loose connections, poor battery to chassis ground, etc

The Lippert level up system ( elect or Hyd ) does not like voltages below 11.9 vdc while operating and will throw all sorts of errors

I would suspect a poor battery to ground connection, loose ground, etc...

You can also measure the overall amp draw on that battery when installed by simply removing the neg battery lead, set multi meter to ma and then connect one lead to Neg bat post and other to the removed Neg bat cable end... this will show you the amp draw..

With nothing turned on inside you should read less than 1 amp.

** I run two GC2 batteries .. now 8 years old... still almost as good a new

 

[jasin1]

I don’t boondock …I’m always at a site that has electric so i wait to hit autolevel until i’m connected to electric and my EMS is good to go…..I never operate my slides without a battery and shore power..i never operate the autolevel without the same…The jacks and slides are the highest amp draw for the 12 volt system.

your jack motors can be damaged operating them with low voltage which will cause high amp draws

If i was boondocking i’d probably have a generator with me and i’d do the same process using the generator as shore power before operating slides and jacks

 

[LHaven]

I don’t boondock …I’m always at a site that has electric so i wait to hit autolevel until i’m connected to electric and my EMS is good to go…..I never operate my slides without a battery and shore power..i never operate the autolevel without the same…

Yes, my practice precisely. I don't even run the tongue jack solely on battery if I can help it. But even hooked up, the jacks and slides deplete the battery, and if the battery is marginal and I have to waste too much time correcting for the OUT OF STROKE, it makes sense for the jacks to start throwing low-voltage-related errors.

I'm going to check my grounding, throw a little No-Ox on it, load-check the battery, then decide if I want to replace with another single Interstate or try something else.

BTW, for those commenters assuming I have a 5er, it's nothing that big. It's a 26' couple's TT.

 

[MarkEHansen]

When I had the same model trailer as yours, I used dual 6V GC2 batteries. They worked very well. You can certainly be cautious and never run any motors (slides, levels, jacks) unless on shore power, but I never worried about that.

I'm not an electrician, but my guess would lean toward bad/corroded connections, as these can increase the resistance on the lines and increase the current draw. It's also possible there is one or more bad motors in the level up system causing similar issues. You can start narrowing the problem down by getting an Ammeter into the circuit (as mentioned above) and start watching as you work different elements of the system. If you run one of the level legs and you see X amps, but a different leg draws X * 3 Amps (or worse), that tells you something.

I also installed a battery monitor on my batteries to keep an eye on what they were doing. It wasn't very hard to do - just wire it in between the battery negative post and the negative cable for the trailer. It will monitor Amps going in and out among other things, depending on the model you get. Let me know if you want more details on what I did and I can share.

Like others have said, batteries should go 5+ (more like 7+ years) before replacement. Definitely not 1 year.

 

[flybouy]

Our trailer came with a great 24 battery that was about as capable as the one for a cordless drill. After a year of use and trashing it I replaced it with a grp 31 deep cycle (105 Ahr) battery. Enough to run the fridge on LP for a few days before a trip. With that being said, when I set up at a campsite I'll leven side to side then connect shore power. The EMS delay typically kicks in while I'm unhitching. Tha coverter will then be on when running the tongue jack, stabilizers, slides, etc. Breaking down camp is revere order of course.

When in storage I disconnect the battery with a a switch I installed between batt negative and the ground on the frame. If I work on the trailer at the storage lot I connect it to the truck. I bought a 7 way plug/cable some years ago at a good "off season" price. Add a 7 way male plug and use it to power the trailer via the truck. This cable allows me to plug into the truck without being directly in-line.
The point for this long post is just to quantify how the battery is used. I'm on the second grp 31 battery in 12 hrs. First one lasted 5 yrs and current battery is 6 yes old and still going strong.

 

[LHaven]

Today I was able to run some measurements.

My DC items that run all the time are the stereo (off except clock), the gas detector, the fridge and WH logic boards (WH happened to be off, which it rarely is), my CPAP (on but idle), and my hotspot (active).

At "parade rest," inCommand said my voltage was 13.2 and my "good" DVM said 13.18 at the battery. It said the battery was having 1.3A pumped into it by the converter, which seemed high.

When I turned the converter breaker off, I saw 1.3A leaving the battery to run my online DC equipment, and the voltage run at 12.5, sinking about 0.01V every three seconds.

When I turned the main AC supply off, there was no change in current, and the battery was holding at about 12.29V.

When the main breaker and the converter breaker were switched back on, I saw 12A(!) entering the battery, dropping about 1A every 15 seconds, until reapproaching starting conditions; and the voltage read 13.5V.

I was a bit concerned about what I thought were high current numbers, so I did another test. I measured the amperage as I disconnected my discretionary DC loads.

With the converter off (but main AC breaker on), I was drawing 2.1A (not sure why not 1.3).
When I pulled my CPAP, the draw sank to about 1.9A.
When I pulled my hotspot also, the draw sank to 1.8.

This still looked high to me. Frustrated, I turned off the battery disconnect switch, which disables everything but the gas detector (yes, it also turns off my stereo/clock). I'm pretty sure it also cuts off all my jacks, as I remember having to turn that key back on to hitch back up after a dealer repair. My ammeter still read a 0.6A draw, which feels high to me. I'm pretty confident the gas detector doesn't eat that much. Is this normal, or what else could be going on?