Northeast Glacial Package Part 2 "Front Cap"

[mguay]

While in Florida this spring, the DW jammed her shoes in the front wardrobe and knocked off a piece of trim. As I went to fix it I noticed the foot square panel it was holding was loose. I peeked in and could see that the fiberglass batts weren't even close to touching each other....so became a new project!

I removed the front cap and found what I expected. They had hung the 2" thick by 16" wide batts from the roof trusses and let them flap down to the pin box. When I got the cap off, only 2 were left attached to the trusses and the rest were laying in the bottom of the nose. It looked like they had sprayed adhesive on the back of the closet paneling and then tried to stick the fg to it.

After prepping the area, masking off the areas around it to protect them from over spray and then I masked all the seams in the paneling as well. I didn't want the spray foam to blow threw the cheaply stapled seams. My Coax and antennae connections were there as well. As I was spraying it, I held a piece of 6mil poly over the connections and then foamed over that.

Check out the Pics...

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[mguay]

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[rickgu]

Impressive, taking on a job like that. Looks great.

 

[byrdr1]

Impressive, taking on a job like that. Looks great.

X2. thanks for posting. how hard was it taking the cap off and then getting back together?
randy

 

[Brantlaker]

You really did a nice job and not just the Front Cap area. The under side came out real well also. I saw the pictures on Photobucket. the next question is when can you do my 5er?

 

[mguay]

The cap came off fairly easy. I had help from my 17yr old. It is bulkier than heavy. Probably in the 100-125lb range. I would advise anyone that is thinking about doing this project to have 2 tubes of lap sealant and a tube of silicone caulk handy before you start. The wiring for the clearance lights and docking lights is about 8' long so you can set the cap down and then unhook them.

Sent from my XT1055 using Tapatalk

 

[mguay]

Here is part 1 ...http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10892

 

[schwalbach]

Not hijacking thread as my idea is related and I feel a good place to discuss options.

Just a thought here. If I was to remove the Coroplast, add 2 inch foam board and reinstall coroplast with longer screws and maybe aluminum angle iron every 4 feet for support, would that help? my idea is to keep the heat in the underbelly, not insulate the floor from the under belly, Where ever possible attach 2" foam to sides of frame to insulate sides. Seems like easiest option?

I would be using the thick cell type and not the white pebble type, and could undercoat the edges so moisture does not get through.

Doing it this way would make it easy to work on in future and on the odd chance of a leak it would not absorb the moisture. It would also create a air space of about 1 foot of neutral air space (think double pane windows) which also has insulating value.

I am going to explore this once it warms up here in WI-40 degrees today!


Anyone have any pros or cons on this?

 

[Festus2]

Not hijacking thread as my idea is related and I feel a good place to discuss options.

my idea is to keep the heat in the underbelly, not insulate the floor from the under belly, It would also create a air space of about 1 foot of neutral air space (think double pane windows) which also has insulating value.

Anyone have any pros or cons on this?

schwalbach -
If your purpose is to retain heat in the underbelly, then you already know that the only "heat" that ends up there, is supplied by the 2" duct when the furnace is operating. So unless your furnace is running, there will be no heat to retain.

It would be interesting to find out how much warm air actually ends up in the underbelly and how "warm" this air is. Is there a significant temperature difference? I doubt if anyone has measured the "before and after" temperature - with the furnace on and with the furnace off. It would be an interesting experiment for someone to conduct.

You also made mention of comparing it to a thermopane window. Remember that the panes of glass - two or three - are all sealed and there really is a "neutral air space" between each of the panes. I don't think it would be possible to create a similar space in the underbelly since it would be nearly impossible to seal it in such a way as to prevent air leaking out or air coming in.

If one of the purposes is to create a heated environment to protect the holding tanks in cold weather then I think you would be better off looking at tank heaters which are designed for that purpose.

Whatever you end up doing with your project, I'm sure it will result in an improvement over what is there now but unless you are going to add some kind of auxiliary heat in the underbelly that isn't dependent on the furnace, I'm not sure how much of a difference it would make.

I would also recommend that you check out geo, our forum's undisputed "Lord of the Underbelly" and read his 2 part thread on insulating and other explorations of the underbelly. Do a search on "insulation the underbelly"

 

[hankaye]

mguay, Howdy;

Thanks for the photos to show the extent you went to fix
the fault. How much did the weight of the foam change your pin weight?

hankaye

 

[SAD]

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How did you know how much foam you could use and the front cap still sitting back on?

 

[mguay]

One at a time Gents....

Schwalbach...The thought is a good one....but Festus hit it on the head! SEALING! The sheets would work but like a hot air balloon needs the flap at the top to come down...sheets cannot be sealed completely therefore the heat would escape through the seams. The other thing is that is about a 50/50 shooting match about weather you actually have the heat duct....mine didn't. As far as a leak being a problem, Closed Cell Spray Foam is not porous...and will NOT absorb water. The last one you were thinking of is gaining access to repair. When I did my underbelly, I wrapped all the areas that might need attention in the future with Fiberglass Batt then foamed over them. Tank Valves, etc. This allows the foam to be broken out easier if needed.

Hankaye...according to my calculations I have only added about 20lbs. It is an average of 2" thick and in the area of R14. The oem batt was marked r6!

SAD... When I removed the cap I left the silicone on the sidewalls for reference. The line was about 3" in on the sidewall and the lip on the cap was in the 6" range. I probably could have went thicker...but shaving Closed Cell Spray Foam is no picnic so I went light.


We are going to the coast on Mothers Day weekend and it is usually still cold and windy. I will report back how well I think it worked!

 

[mguay]

A quick update!

Got to the CG last night around 8pm. The whole place is back ins and the bedroom ends up on the road. There is a Vintage RV Jamboree going on and they have about 1/2 of the 400+ sites full of beautiful campers from the 60's. It just so happens that their main tent/gathering area is across the road from our site. While setting up the whole gang was hootn and hollern....having a good time. When we went inside we were surprised at how quiet it was! A couple hours later I went out with the dog before bed and found out they were just as loud as before. As I got in bed...I couldn't hear them! The foam worked for sound!

The temps got down into the high 30s/low 40s and I set the thermostat on the furnace at 65 and the 1500 watt elec heater in the kitchen on 65. The elec heater on the floor and the thermostat for the furnace at the top of the stairs. The elec heater cycled on and off a few times during the night and the furnace never came on. The entire bedroom...including the closet side of the bed was an even temp. Where I used to freeze on the closet side with no heat duct in the floor...it was now much more comfortable! When I got up I checked the temps and in the bedroom it was 68 with the kitchen being 66.

All in all, I think it was well worth the effort! The bedroom being the highest point in a FB 5er will loose heat first and I have definitely slowed the process. The noise reduction is a bonus!