Keystone quality???

[Husker Tim]

Hello, we are the owners of an Outback 328rl 2024. The trailer was delivered to our home by Camping World, Counsil Bluffs, IA. The very next day I performed my own walk around. The group 24 battery was mounted crosswise and had fallen part way out of the battery location. Upon further investigation, I determined the battery should have been mounted lengthwise as indicated by the length of cables and the strap orientation would prevent it falling between the strap irons. I opened the plastic battery box to find the battery cables were loose. Not a little loose, but nuts barely started loose. I opened the drivers side storage area to find a piece of trim that was bowed inward because it was cut too long. Upon looking at the grey and black tank dump valves, I found the three T handles with the threaded sleeve extensions, with the jam nuts loose. One of them so loose that it fell off when I touched it. Back to the front. I removed the propane tanks cover. Both tanks were left on for the 80 mile trip. Inside: the kitchen chairs were not secured! One had ended up back by the fireplace. Upon gathering up the scattered chairs, I looked under the seat cushions. Three of the four chairs had loose bolts that hold the legs on. One chair had one of the bolts rolling around under the cushion. Sawdust and drill shavings everywhere! In the foldout couch, in the theater recliners in the cabinets on the floor in the bed, in the closets. Sharp, misapplied staples sticking up on the kitchen slide floor trim. Storage compartment lid in the recliners way out of adjustment (crooked and wouldn’t shut completely). Back outside: Two of the four tires, 20 pounds under inflated, one 10 pounds under. Looked at the underbelly. Most of the openings where wires or plumbing come through, either silicon or expandable foam was used, but several places nothing was used. One opening was big enough for my whole hand to fit through made no sense.
Is this the norm for a new keystone outback buying experience? Keystone describes the Outback as a luxury trailer. This is what you get in a luxury trailer? Oh I almost forgot. I was de winterizing today and discovered a leak dripping from the underbelly when I was putting water in the fresh water tank! Switched to city water setting leak stopped. Back to Camping World I go next week.

 

[jasin1]

Wow sounds like you got yourself a pretty sweet unit! Consider yourself lucky that the small little list is all you have

Some new owners across all brands of rvs are not so lucky and have bigger issues…the preferred way to buy an Rv is to pick it up yourself at the dealer and do a thorough walk thru before signing on the dotted line.
Get any issues worked out at that time.

I’d Fix the few issues and enjoy your beautiful new Rv ….

 

[DutchmenSport]

I do agree that there is no excuse for Keystone's sloppiness, or your dealer's sloppiness.

But, ever item you mentioned is fixable yourself and most of it can be knocked out pretty fast.

Do not be surprised when Camping World holds your camper hostage for several weeks while you wait for them to fix your warranty issues. Camping World does NOT have a stellar reputation you know, for customer follow up AFTER the camper is sold.

If you have the talent, the time, and the space to fix your own defects, you will be much better off than attempting to get warranty work done in a timely fashion, especially from Camping World.

Again, there is no excuse for the shoddy workmanship, but you really do need to pick up your own hammer now! (We've ALL been there, we've had our own heartburn at Keystone), and we've all accepted the notion that WE ourselves can and do fix our campers better than the dealership ever will. .... welcome to the family!

 

[Husker Tim]

Dutchmensport, tried to purchase as you suggested. Had an appointment to pick up the slightly used trailer we had first agreed to buy. During the walk through we discovered that the dealer had not fixed the few issues that trailer had as promised. We walked away from that one. The dealer then apologetically said they would try to locate one similar to that trailer and found this keystone. The dealer agreed to deliver the trailer to us as we had waisted a trip because of their mistakes. I also had spinal fusion surgery after the first attempt at taking delivery. I thought I was safe buying a new rig and had expressed to the dealer that I was in no hurry to take delivery so take your time and get it right. Waisted my breath there.
And yes I have a tow vehicle. 2010 Silverado HD 2500 Duramax.

 

[sourdough]

With the exception of a couple of items all the items you listed are dealer failures. As was mentioned they are easily fixed at least. If that's the way the dealer brought it to you, and their idea of a "good job", I'd be right with them as they tried to fix that fresh water tank. If they don't know what a good job is, or expect it, no telling what they will do.

Did the leak on that stop when you turned off the water going into the fresh water fill or when you drained the FW tank? May be just a loose connection of the back of the fill port.

Congrats on the new rig and hopefully they will fix it right. Good luck on that fusion surgery. DW was scheduled on 4/16 and it got stopped last minute due to a heart issue so now waiting....

 

[NH_Bulldog]

Almost everything you listed is a failure of the dealer. There is no excuse, it should never have arrived in that condition if the dealer was doing their job. A couple of big examples; battery installed wrong (batteries don’t come from Keystone, the dealer installs them). Propane tanks on (tanks are filled by the dealer, not Keystone). Besides, who cares? My tanks are always on from early April to mid October whether parked or rolling down the road. Chairs; dealer. Under-inflated tires; dealer.

A big lesson here; if you choose to accept a trailer before inspecting it and turning over your hard earned money, you own the issues now (unless you want them “fixing” it). The best way to learn every aspect of your camper is to learn how to fix it yourself.

Our Passport came from a dealer 750 miles away. We drove there, spent the weekend and only signed and paid once everything that could be addressed was addressed and the things that couldn’t they arranged to have taken care of by a local dealer back at home. Our Passport left the driveway today with the new owner. Due in part to all service, maintenance and warranty work being completed by myself, along with pride of ownership, I actually sold it for what I bought it for new 5 years ago. This weekend we are doing it again and driving 600 miles to do our walkthrough on our new Cougar and I have already told them I am not leaving and not handing them my check until everything is to my satisfaction.

You have a nice camper, fix the things you can and get out there and enjoy it!

 

[chuckster57]

As a tech with over 12yrs experience, I can say without any hesitation that your dealership failed you miserably.

They ALL (every brand) have issues, it’s up to the dealership to recognize and repair these issues. I wouldn’t be thinking of giving them anymore of your money.

 

[Husker Tim]

Just leaked when the water was going into the fresh tank. Dealer service person said probably the pump housing. Known issue I guess.
My felling is , if there is a high failure rate, why didn’t the dealer check it before it left the shop they knew it was going to my climate controlled building and it wasn’t below freezing when delivered.

 

[JRTJH]

Just leaked when the water was going into the fresh tank. Dealer service person said probably the pump housing. Known issue I guess.
My felling is , if there is a high failure rate, why didn’t the dealer check it before it left the shop they knew it was going to my climate controlled building and it wasn’t below freezing when delivered.

You say you "found the leak while you were de-winterizing the trailer". Then you say the dealer "knew it was going into a climate controlled building"..

Again, the dealer failed you. If the unit was never de-winterized, they could not have checked the water system. If they did de-winterize it to function check, if they "knew where it was going" they would not have winterized it again.... So, your comments tell a story of a dealership that did little or nothing to prep your new trailer for delivery.....

Sounds like the classic "Take advantage of a novice buyer, they'll never catch on"..... Well, hopefully, by now, you've caught on to this dealer's shenanigans.....

 

[Viper02]

Once you get the gremlins ironed out I hope you folks have a great RVing future ahead.
The water leak when filling sounds to me that one or more of the connections on the backside of the water service center panel are loose...

Fix it yourself..
The rest is all what I call "nickle and dime" and if it were mine it would never go back to CW..

You will be miles ahead if you learn to DIY on everything on that RV...

A few links that may give you some future insight and help:

Keystone RV DIY links with videos:
https://www.keystonerv.com/diy-program

Keystone operation, maintenance, etc videos:
https://www.keystonerv.com/owners-how-to

Lippert Support Website: manuals, videos, etc on many of your installed sub systems on that RV:
https://support.lci1.com/documentation/

 

[jsb5717]

It’s not so much a Keystone quality failure as it is an Industry quality failure. It’s pretty much across the board.

The OEM’s could all do better on the assembly line. The dealers are the gap-fillers. A good dealer will inspect and correct many issues before you even see the rig. Additionally they SHOULD take time with you to walk thru a new purchase and make sure that everything is satisfactory and that you know how everything works. While there are some good Camping World dealerships, they generally have a pretty lousy reputation for customer care after the sale. Yes, they failed you. Sadly it’s not surprising. A good dealer would have taken better care of you before you got the rig.

But now the deed is done so, yes, do as much of the work as you possibly can. It will save you a ton of time and frustration. If you don’t mind being without your new rig for a long time then let them fix it. But, as John said, do they really know how to fix it?

Anyway, welcome aboard, you’ve joined the club of…“RV’s always need a handyman for something”. Strap on the tool belt and enjoy the RV life. Once you get past the initial repairs it get’s easier. We’ve all been there and most of us still enjoy it.

 

[Rickguns1956]

Whether it's used or new a professional inspector can save a lot of aggravation and shop time. Best strategy when problems are found on PDI or by inspector is to tell them I won't give the final check or sign papers on it until the problems are solved.

 

[JohnR-KEY]

Jumbo Shrimp, Military Intelligence, Freezer Burn, Original Copy, and Keystone Quality.

A Keystone Rep told my Wife and I that it usually takes about a year to work out all the bugs from a new rig. Compared to modern automobiles, RV's are nothing but low quality parts and very poor construction.
RV repair and maintenance has become a new weekend hobby.

 

[LHaven]

Marcus Lemonis's speech [LINK] at last week's RV Industry Power Breakfast was informative. He talked about the challenge of getting the industry to grow from 600,000 units per year to 750,000 units per year. He waxed eloquent on growth, employment, and finance plans, without sparing a single word about quality... except a "duh" moment when he admitted, "We know, for example, with some of the higher-end products, those customers expect us to be specialists." Um, yeah, you think? This is the sort of single-minded pursuit of growth for growth's sake that craters corporations, or even entire industries.

 

[sourdough]

Marcus Lemonis's speech [LINK] at last week's RV Industry Power Breakfast was informative. He talked about the challenge of getting the industry to grow from 600,000 units per year to 750,000 units per year. He waxed eloquent on growth, employment, and finance plans, without sparing a single word about quality... except a "duh" moment when he admitted, "We know, for example, with some of the higher-end products, those customers expect us to be specialists." Um, yeah, you think? This is the sort of single-minded pursuit of growth for growth's sake that craters corporations, or even entire industries.

Lemonis is CEO of Camping World, they don't make RVs - they sell them. He was speaking to not only those that make the RVs but those involved in the RV business. His was on point from a business perspective.

 

[Husker Tim]

Once you get the gremlins ironed out I hope you folks have a great RVing future ahead.
The water leak when filling sounds to me that one or more of the connections on the backside of the water service center panel are loose...

Fix it yourself..
The rest is all what I call "nickle and dime" and if it were mine it would never go back to CW..

You will be miles ahead if you learn to DIY on everything on that RV...

A few links that may give you some future insight and help:

Keystone RV DIY links with videos:
https://www.keystonerv.com/diy-program

Keystone operation, maintenance, etc videos:
https://www.keystonerv.com/owners-how-to

Lippert Support Website: manuals, videos, etc on many of your installed sub systems on that RV:
https://support.lci1.com/documentation/

Those links are all great, but what if you have problems without internet access or even good cell service? A better owners manual that is model specific should be provided by keystone. Lots of people telling me to fix it myself. ITS IN WARRANTY! If I mess with it it may void the warranty! I’m not a total idiot. I have spent 40 years in production agriculture. I can do minor repairs! Not holding the dealer and the company responsible is why, in part, the rv industry has such a bad reputation. Seems so many are willing to accept poor workmanship and service. I gave this dealer the option to earn my trust and future business. They violated that trust a bit, but not making them fix their mistakes would be letting them get away with it.

 

[jsb5717]

It's really a mixed bag, isn't it? Sure, you can try to hold the dealer accountable. On the surface that's not a bad thing. But that doesn't really solve the core issue, does it. The manufacturer doesn't really feel the pinch of the dealer's sweat. Yes, it's the dealer's responsibility to solve these issues under warranty. But you have to decide what's most important to you. If the dealer is competent you might get the issues resolved well. If not then you'll still have issues. Then there's how long it will take for the dealer to get the work done. There are stories of months without having your trailer.

There are good dealers and bad dealers. Most people who have bad dealers find it out the hard way because they didn't do the research before the purchase. Most buyers are driven by the good deal and end up paying the price after the sale.

If you bought from a good dealer then you wouldn't be having this added stress. All of the OEM's provide less than desirable quality in their workmanship. Bad dealers compound the problems by jerking around the customer after the sale.

Sadly it sounds like you are a victim of a lack of research and bought from a dealer that only cares about making the sale. It happens too often but now you're stuck with decisions on the best course for resolving your issues.

I'm not saying that any of this is the way it should be. It's not. Ideally the OEM's would take the time to build a better product and all dealers should care about customer service.

No, it's not right, but it's our current reality. How can we help every single buyer to do dealer research before buying an RV? Like you, most will learn the hard way unless they can find a forum like this before buying anything.

 

[sourdough]

Those links are all great, but what if you have problems without internet access or even good cell service? A better owners manual that is model specific should be provided by keystone. Lots of people telling me to fix it myself. ITS IN WARRANTY! If I mess with it it may void the warranty! I’m not a total idiot. I have spent 40 years in production agriculture. I can do minor repairs! Not holding the dealer and the company responsible is why, in part, the rv industry has such a bad reputation. Seems so many are willing to accept poor workmanship and service. I gave this dealer the option to earn my trust and future business. They violated that trust a bit, but not making them fix their mistakes would be letting them get away with it.

RVs require the buyer to want to be involved "in the process". That includes understanding how the "process" works. RVs aren't built like cars....none of them. The RV selling network is NOT like auto dealerships. The RV dealers are NOT anything akin to a car dealership. It is an animal unto itself and any buyer needs to understand that.

"It's new. They should fix it. It's under WARRANTY"....words spoken so, so many times. Yes, there is a warranty. The selling dealer has NOTHING to do with the manufacturer other than selling their product...that's it. If the product costs them too much money in warranty work, hassles etc. they DROP it. The get paid less for warranty work than normal repairs thus they put it at the back of the line. This is what you get if you don't develop a relationship with the dealer.

Hold the dealer accountable? For what? That happens right up front when a buyer chooses an RV then goes through the buying process. Prior to purchase the buyer should know everything there is to know about the prospective trailer....just as you would a vehicle. At that point you have leverage. Once you have "accepted" what the trailer is and sign the documents it is YOURS based on your inspection and acceptance.

Hold the industry accountable? For what? The dealer failing to fix problems that it is understood between them and the manufacturer that they will? The failure of a new buyer to thoroughly vet the trailer they are about to buy? Should quality be better? Heavens yes. Has it sucked for decades? Absolutely. It is a known animal with known requirements for a potential buyer.

I hate to sound negative but I have personally encountered SO many failures, SO many quality issues, SO many dealer issues over the years (from the very first trailer I bought almost 40 years ago)...it makes zero sense to complain and say it "should be better" - it won't be. It is what it is. I choose to protect myself by knowing what's what and what the playing field is. KNOW the dealer from top to bottom and either develop some sort of relationship or leverage. The other alternative is to forget RVs and camp in a tent - btdt for decades and won't again.

 

[EKH0ar]

Agree. Make sure you hire an NRVIA-certified inspector. https://nrvia.org/

 

[Notanlines]

Tim, "The trailer was delivered to our home by Camping World, Counsil Bluffs, IA. The very next day I performed my own walk around. "
" ITS IN WARRANTY! If I mess with it it may void the warranty! I’m not a total idiot."
Tim, are you in the habit of buying things and then inspecting them when you get home? I think not. You have had a learning experience here, one which you will not forget. You have gotten good advice in this thread. I suggest you give it a try and then enjoy your purchase. Believe me, things will iron out after a spell.