Is this normal for a Keystone

[sourdough]

I'm sorry but I don't understand this! So, once again, people that are complaining about dealers are basically barking up the wrong tree.
If the manufacturer would do a better job of servicing their dealers then there would be more incentive for the dealers to do a better job servicing the end user. Maybe my brain works differently but that is one screwed up system.
Manufacturer.....just pump out a bunch of not so quailty equipment and let the dealer deal with it.
Dealer.....We'll except your not so quality equipment but we're going to do everything we can not to be a quality customer service business of your not so quality equipment.


I do understand the dealer needing to take a discounted price from the manufacturer, but not to the point of "losing money" because they have to fix their not so quality product.

So basically the end result is the uneducated consumer is the one that gets hosed in the end and the manufacturer slides on down the road hoping nobody complains about what has happened. Except on forums such as this that really only effect a very small percentage of their cash cow.

As was mentioned, RV dealers don't have a relationship like auto dealers. The RV dealer PICKS the RVs it chooses to sell - they are not part of the RV manufacturer's business. In that kind of relationship you bought the trailer from the DEALER who you really need to know...or at least have some idea about. Keystone can try to help find someone to work on it but they have zero input whether they will or won't - the dealer you buy from is your go to guy. When these dealers have work backed up from their regular customers that paid THEM money and a profit, they're going to take care of them before they take a warranty repair from someone they don't know at a labor rate that barely pays the tech.

RV manufacturers couldn't afford to have thousands of dealerships across the country filling lots with inventory waiting for someone to buy a unit. They build units and they are purchased by dealerships that then sell them to customers - very different than autos. In this scenario the dealer actually buys the trailer from the manufacturer (and they can choose NOT to buy trailers/models from specific manufacturers) and is responsible for the warranty work on the trailer they sold - BUT the manufacturer will try to support their product with a warranty that primarily reflects the individual warranties of the various items in/on the trailer but they file claims for you. Workmanship on RV is what the manufacturer is responsible for exclusively. Watching a video to see exactly what they do and how the RV is put together would be beneficial - it primarily comes down to structural for manufacturer warranty.

As far as an uneducated customer getting "hosed" on an RV purchase - they can, and do, get hosed on purchases of everything. Any time anyone considers the purchase of anything, but particularly something somewhat expensive, they should do their homework and KNOW what they are getting and the landscape they are walking into. If not, there's always spots of quicksand, loose shale etc. for the unwary.

 

[Raptor Dave]

As was mentioned, RV dealers don't have a relationship like auto dealers.

I understand all of what you're saying but still don't agree with it. I believe it to be total BS in our world of lack of customer service.
Don't get me wrong, I've had fairly good results with phone help from some of the different product makers when trying to trouble shoot things that don't work as they should. But I have never had a good experience taking a rig purchased from said dealer as far as getting what is needed done in a timely manner. Experiences like taking the rig with a list of things needed to be fixed and getting a call 2-3 weeks later that it is finished only to find out that they did half the things on the list but tried to make us feel good about it by telling us they fixed other things that weren't on the list!
Can you imagine going in for a filling at the dentist and having them say "while I'm in there I'll just fix part of your tongue that doesn't look good!"
Or worse... taking your rig in for an upgrade and getting a bottom line out the door quote from the so called service manager only to find out when you show to pick it up that he made a "mistake" in the quote and it's now going to cost $100 more. (I will take partial blame for not getting it in writing but was still pretty pissed)
It's experiences like this that have lead me to look at dealers as soapbox conmen and shysters only to make a quick buck. Because of these types of experiences I feel fortunate that I am able to take on a lot of jobs myself and not have rely on these people warranty or not.
If only one manufacturer would change this "stone age" way of thinking with their dealers and put the customer first I can only imagine what it would do for the industry and their bottom line.

 

[sourdough]

I understand all of what you're saying but still don't agree with it. I believe it to be total BS in our world of lack of customer service.
Don't get me wrong, I've had fairly good results with phone help from some of the different product makers when trying to trouble shoot things that don't work as they should. But I have never had a good experience taking a rig purchased from said dealer as far as getting what is needed done in a timely manner. Experiences like taking the rig with a list of things needed to be fixed and getting a call 2-3 weeks later that it is finished only to find out that they did half the things on the list but tried to make us feel good about it by telling us they fixed other things that weren't on the list!
Can you imagine going in for a filling at the dentist and having them say "while I'm in there I'll just fix part of your tongue that doesn't look good!"
Or worse... taking your rig in for an upgrade and getting a bottom line out the door quote from the so called service manager only to find out when you show to pick it up that he made a "mistake" in the quote and it's now going to cost $100 more. (I will take partial blame for not getting it in writing but was still pretty pissed)
It's experiences like this that have lead me to look at dealers as soapbox conmen and shysters only to make a quick buck. Because of these types of experiences I feel fortunate that I am able to take on a lot of jobs myself and not have rely on these people warranty or not.
If only one manufacturer would change this "stone age" way of thinking with their dealers and put the customer first I can only imagine what it would do for the industry and their bottom line.

I generally have good luck to very good luck with my dealer. I don't however leave things up to them. I tell them what is wrong, how I want it fixed and then stay on top of it visiting the shop, the service manager and the tech up to 3 days a week. I'm never surprised by the job done because I watched it and was involved in it. I let the dealer be the interface with Keystone unless things don't go as they should then I will get involved with Keystone along with the dealer. It's my trailer and the dealer's sale....Keystone sold the trailer to the dealer, the dealer is their customer. It's in my best interest to be involved and dictate the outcome I want as much as possible. The last paragraph of your comment is simply not going to happen due to the types of arrangements in the RV sales system. What one has to do is understand the animal, accept the animal and learn to handle the animal. If not and a person buys a RV anyway they are destined to be unhappy in many, many cases.

 

[workinonit]

I generally have good luck to very good luck with my dealer. I don't however leave things up to them. I tell them what is wrong, how I want it fixed and then stay on top of it visiting the shop, the service manager and the tech up to 3 days a week. I'm never surprised by the job done because I watched it and was involved in it. I let the dealer be the interface with Keystone unless things don't go as they should then I will get involved with Keystone along with the dealer. It's my trailer and the dealer's sale....Keystone sold the trailer to the dealer, the dealer is their customer. It's in my best interest to be involved and dictate the outcome I want as much as possible. The last paragraph of your comment is simply not going to happen due to the types of arrangements in the RV sales system. What one has to do is understand the animal, accept the animal and learn to handle the animal. If not and a person buys a RV anyway they are destined to be unhappy in many, many cases.

Actually, this is not what I consider to be very good luck with a dealer. It's a sad state of affairs when this is what has to happen to get anything close to quality work from one of these dealers. Seeing the work that the dealer I bought mine from does I wouldn't take it back to them for any type of repair. It's obvious to me that if I own this rolling money pit for any length of time there will be very few things on it that I won't have touched. Case in point, on this last trip the bathroom to bedroom rolling door came apart and fell to the floor. I have it out now working on it. I cringe to think how a dealer would fix the door. It's just laughable. But we are to blame for all of this. We are the enablers. This industry is like the federal government, it will never get fixed.

 

[Peto]

Love my dealer. They go out of the way to help. Problem is the labor. They have to hire McDonalds flunkies. Every time they touch my trailer it's always returned with something that has been destroyed do to the labor fumbling around.

Took it in last to have some siding replaced due to it coming lose and bowing out when I pull it. Now the shower and kitchen sink plumbing leak out the bottom when used. How they could create a drain plumbing leak when working on the siding I have not a clue.

But the service manger bends over backwards to correct the situations... she is battling a bad talent pool.

 

[sourdough]

Actually, this is not what I consider to be very good luck with a dealer. It's a sad state of affairs when this is what has to happen to get anything close to quality work from one of these dealers. Seeing the work that the dealer I bought mine from does I wouldn't take it back to them for any type of repair. It's obvious to me that if I own this rolling money pit for any length of time there will be very few things on it that I won't have touched. Case in point, on this last trip the bathroom to bedroom rolling door came apart and fell to the floor. I have it out now working on it. I cringe to think how a dealer would fix the door. It's just laughable. But we are to blame for all of this. We are the enablers. This industry is like the federal government, it will never get fixed.

Read the last 2 sentences of my previous post. Good, bad or indifferent the animal is the animal. I take care of most things myself but there are some larger things I have them do. I've had good techs, bad techs and in between work on the trailers for various things over the years. I have a particular tech I try to use these days. No matter who is working on it I am particular so I am there in person quite often to make sure things are going to be right when done vs a) having them keep it longer and redo the work or b) taking it home, fixing what's wrong then complaining about it. It's my trailer, my time and I want it done like I want if I'm (or warranty) paying for it. I do the same with my vehicles, tractor, lawn people, tree trimmers, plumbers, contractors etc. so it's just what I do. Some folks don't want to do that and just trust that whoever is doing work for them is going to do it just like they want it....that usually doesn't work out well. In the end, when I get a "product" back/done that I want...I'm happy - and that's where I like to be. To each his own.

 

[workinonit]

I wasn't being negative in regard to what you do at all. I'm cut from the same cloth though I refuse to straw boss an idiot at a dealership when I can do it myself much better. My wife and I have reflected on the fact that a couple of years in we will have touched every issue on this RV so in that timeframe we will have a top notch 5th wheel. We will likely keep it long term for those reasons. Why sell it to someone else after we make it a keeper. As far as dealers go, I haven't seen any so far. A dealer is only as good as the techs in the shop. That's really all that they can be measured by.

 

[Raptor Dave]

^^^^^ What is being said up there.
If I have hold hands and wipe butts for the procedure to get done correctly I'll just take on the job myself.

Again....failure at the top of food chain IMO. If the manufacturer would get involved and make sure the dealer that is handling their product is sufficiently equipped and have well trained techs on hand we wouldn't need to hand hold.

Common sense should dictate that if I had a product for sale that I were wholesaling I would want top shelf customer service for said product.
What could possibly go wrong from that mission statement!

 

[flybouy]

I think it's plain and simple business economics. If you want "top notch" service then buy a Rolls Royce. The initial cost covers the "red carpet" service. Why would a trailer mfg. offer this and incurr the cost? They can't keep up with the sales demand now. The industry is VERY competitive so raising the MSRP to cover a high level quality would definitely reduce if not decimate sales.

I'm not defending the system but it is a completely different animal than any other industry. Should they do better, absolutly. Will they? Not as long as folks are standing in line waving money to get one. I wouldn't hold out hope that some one will come along and start building competitive trailers. The industry business model would be difficult at best. A "start up" manufacturer would not have the economy of scale to source components and materials at the price points that a company like Thor does.

 

[Firerader]

I'm in the middle of a first year warranty claim right now. I contacted my dealer weeks in advance hoping to minimize the wait, that didn't help. I presented a comprehensive list of 15 rather minor items requiring repair, complete with pictures and dates found for each item. After four weeks, I picked up our Fuzion 373 and found the power, frig and lights left on and batteries dead. Nothing had been repaired nor had full claimes been filed.

The week after we pick it up, the dealer informed us they needed the unit back just to take multi-meter readings on the frig. Keystone needed meter reading in order to process a claim for the frig doors not staying latched during travel.

We're taking it back next week to finish our claims. The bent roof ladder claim has been denied, we had pictures from 2 days after purchase. The sofa slide out of alignment was approved, but it finally dropped a cable two weeks ago I had to fix. The front cap delaminating was partially approved. The water leak in the bed slide was denied. One of two failed black tank sensors was approved. Bent front entry door was approved. Faulty bathroom door was denied. Faulty factory battery was denied. Failed sofa USB plug was denied.

Overall I don't have anything good to say about Keystone or Camping World. I've learned a lot from this 100k purchase. Most of all, I've learned how to fix things myself.

 

[NH_Bulldog]

Don’t forget that you can also deal with appliance/component manufacturers directly if you want/need. They typically have at least a two year warranty if not longer. I have always dealt directly with the component manufacturer on any issues.

What do you have for a “factory” battery? Keystone only shipped units with a battery for a VERY narrow period of time and they were Dragonfly Energy LiFePO4 batteries by Battle Born added as an option with versions of SolarFlex. Why not go direct to Battle Born since they have a 10 year warranty?

 

[Mike Honcho]

I am in the camp with Raptor Dave. Our Fuzion dealer in FL we bought our 2021 from was a disaster for minor warranty work and then fixing stuff from a minor accident. Told me stink from flushing toilet was from me not treating tank right. With a snake I was able to pull out a hole saw cutout from the vent pipe. Problem solved. They only fixed 30-40% cosmetic issues but you can bet they got paid for all.

On the accident I brushed a pole and felt a jolt. Knocked the leaf springs loose on front axle. It ended up loose and jammed front tire against center tire causing a blow out. Some blow out damage and rest was basic leaf spring, tires, and axle alignment. Took 5 months to fix. Somehow the "wrong" parts kept coming in. Finally I can pick up but J wrap has to be fixed later, product not in yet. Well it never came in (incident was April 2022, still waiting for them to call me saying they can fix!) and they cashed the insurance check for all. Icing on the cake was me noticing the tires replaced on the damage side were very light on tread. They were paid to replace with 3 new tires yet put used on. Illegal as hell.

I'm not ranting. RV was totalled from flooding. We pick up new replacement on 12/9. So starting over and closing that chapter. Since FL dealers have crazy $5-6K tack on fees over advertised price we bought from a dealer up on Ohio. Anyway I reccomend anyone buying new to bring in once for needed warranty items (hopefully few) and then never see the big dealer again. Find a good local reputable RV service company to fix what you can not on your own. Eception would be a great local honest and not to large dealer. Seems we found one but not local so we shall see how it goes.

 

[Mike Honcho]

Firerader, seems you got what we got on our 2021. A Monday morning or Friday afternoon unit. We started with an 08 Fuzion 373. Beat the ever living hell out of it and used it so much that it owed me nothing at the end when I sold it cheap. Garage floor rotted (common of this era and I replaced) and the ramp door got soft (also common, did not replace, buyer did not need to use it) and that was it. These things (Raptor line too) are built extremely well. 2021 was too, just more initial issues.

It has good bones so chase down the issues and fix. You will get many years out of it. Picking up a 2025 427 and I'll watch it like a hawk. Fix, seal what I can and have to. Dealer visit is an absolute last resort. You will be fine with your unit.

 

[spicercars]

Welcome from northern Mn. Hope you can get your issues worked out.

 

[Firerader]

Thanks for the words of wisdom and support. We finally heard from CW yesterday about our claims. It sounds like the only outstanding issue will be the refrigerator temperature concerns. CW tech recommended replacing the frig based on their testing and inspections. Keystone authorized shimming two doors. At this point I just want the unit back.