Inverter install. How to get battery into storage area?

[268BH]

I'm installing an inverter in a 2022 Keystone Passport 268BH. Has the prepped inverter loop.

First, is the inverter selection. I'm considering a Renogy.

PUH 12V 3000W Pure Sine Wave Inverter with UPS Transfer Switch and Built-in Bluetooth

The Renogy 3000W Pure Sine Wave Power Inverter is the perfect accessory for smaller off-grid systems, serving as a DC to AC converter, transforming battery-stored DC power into AC power. Back up Mains is preferred, and the mains and inverter modes are automatically switched The AC priority...

www.renogy.com

I'm on a budget. DIY. I'll keep the WFCO for shore power charging. This inverter has the UPS. So I don't need to install a seperate transfer switch.
Any recommendations for other products in this price range? I've read concerns Renogy inverter always having to be on. Even when on shore power.

Inverter wired to Giggy Box

Has anyone wired an inverter directly to the Giggy Box vs direct to the battery? Obviously would install an inline fuse in the positive cable.

www.keystoneforums.com

Second, I'm trying to figure out the DIY. In a Passport breaker board, is there a switch for inverters? Photos attached.

Third, I just bought a Litime lithium battery. Hooked up on the external battery rack on the tongue. I'm worried about theft. I don't want to have buy an expensive battery shackle if is it not necessary. I want a 2nd battery in the future. How do you get the external battery cables into the storage? Also, seems this would make installing the inverter so much easier. Connecting the battery cable would be easy.

Otherwise, have to cut a hole through the storage to the tongue, to run the connection from inverter to the battery that is on the external battery rack on the tongue. Should I be worried about this? How? And, what do I do with the 2nd battery? There doesn't seem to be room on the tongue for two batteries, and theft/security is a concern.

Thanks for the help!

 

[NH_Bulldog]

First, you don’t need/want a 3,000w inverter, it is way overkill. Depending on your prep loop Romex wire (white Romex is 15a and roughly 1,400 watts max, and yellow Romex is 20a and roughly 1,920 watts).

As for battery theft, it isn’t anything I have ever been worried about. If the battery is in a box, how can anyone see that it is a lithium? Has anyone ever stolen your lead acid battery before? There is such limited use for a lithium battery outside of the RV world, it isn’t an attractive target, especially a budget battery like LiTime. I had two group 27 batteries on the tongue of my Passport without issue.

I have a breaker in my panel labeled “Inverted Recepts”. I don’t see that in yours for some reason?

 

[Stircrazy]

I'm installing an inverter in a 2022 Keystone Passport 268BH. Has the prepped inverter loop.

First, is the inverter selection. I'm considering a Renogy.

PUH 12V 3000W Pure Sine Wave Inverter with UPS Transfer Switch and Built-in Bluetooth

The Renogy 3000W Pure Sine Wave Power Inverter is the perfect accessory for smaller off-grid systems, serving as a DC to AC converter, transforming battery-stored DC power into AC power. Back up Mains is preferred, and the mains and inverter modes are automatically switched The AC priority...

www.renogy.com

I'm on a budget. DIY. I'll keep the WFCO for shore power charging. This inverter has the UPS. So I don't need to install a seperate transfer switch.
Any recommendations for other products in this price range? I've read concerns Renogy inverter always having to be on. Even when on shore power.

Inverter wired to Giggy Box

Has anyone wired an inverter directly to the Giggy Box vs direct to the battery? Obviously would install an inline fuse in the positive cable.

www.keystoneforums.com

Second, I'm trying to figure out the DIY. In a Passport breaker board, is there a switch for inverters? Photos attached.

Third, I just bought a Litime lithium battery. Hooked up on the external battery rack on the tongue. I'm worried about theft. I don't want to have buy an expensive battery shackle if is it not necessary. I want a 2nd battery in the future. How do you get the external battery cables into the storage? Also, seems this would make installing the inverter so much easier. Connecting the battery cable would be easy.

Otherwise, have to cut a hole through the storage to the tongue, to run the connection from inverter to the battery that is on the external battery rack on the tongue. Should I be worried about this? How? And, what do I do with the 2nd battery? There doesn't seem to be room on the tongue for two batteries, and theft/security is a concern.

Thanks for the help!

I would see if they have the same inverter in a 2000watt version, save a bit of money as you won't even use all of the 2000watt inverter, but close.

as for battery theft, it has become a little more frequent with the LiFePO4 battery's becoming more popular, you could either put a metal battery box on the tongue with a locking hasp or move them inside. there are two ways to do this, follow the battery cables back as far as you can go until your under the storage with the bottom water proofing pealed back drill a hole up, put the wires through and seal it all back up again, or just go to a rv place and ask them how much they would want to do it and then you know its done right.

 

[mikehoyt]

I installed a Renogy 1000 watt inverter with UPS transfer switch in our Passport 221BH last summer. In the end I ended up purchasing an external transfer switch rather than using the one built into the inverter.

Initially I thought the inverter was faulty and replaced with a second one of the same model. It had the same issue. The inverter has to be powered on for the inverted outlets to work - even if connected to shore power. Also the output at those outlets is always restricted to the inverter's stated wattage (in my case 1000 watt) even when connected to shore power.

My needs were to have an inverter that we only power on when disconnected from shore power. Just to watch TV, charge laptops and run my 800 watt coffee pot (keurig style).

With the external transfer switch I have full 15 amp service with normal household wattage to my inverted outlets when on shore power or inverter limitation of 1000 watts when disconnected from shore power.

This is the transfer switch I used https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0BRQ7KQQ7?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title

Note that I connected inverter directly to battery. I had to use longer battery cables than those supplied (one needed to be four feet). I ran the cables up through the floor at front of pass thru storage area.

You can see from the photos that the use of external transfer switch also required a junction box. It is not as clean looking as wiring the ac feed directly to the inverter and using the built in transfer switch but it is far better functionality. The UPS transfer switch is just that. It is a Uninterruptable Power Supply the same as you would use for a computer. That is why it always has to be on. My use is for 110v use when boon docking rather than power during an unexpected power outage

Hope this is helpful

Mike Hoyt
2022 Passport 221BH

 

[rickybobby]

I have the 3000W Renogy installed in my 2017 Montana. I never had an issue and it's a pure signwave. My wife works with a PC, dual monitor, Starlink, all works great.

 

[WJQ]

First, I have a different pull behind but I could not install two group 27 batteries in boxes on the front of my trailer where the original battery was located. In my opinion, if you want to use an inverter with any load, you will need two 100-amp lithium batteries.

Eventually, I bought two LiTime Group 24 batteries and installed them in a double box with room to spare. It keeps them out of the weather and out of sight. Below are the Amazon descriptions. I am quite satisfied with these batteries, and the Bluetooth feature is a nice extra feature, although it is redundant to my Victron smart shunt.

LiTime 12V 100Ah Group 24 Bluetooth LiFePO4 Battery, Deep Cycle Lithium Battery, Built-in 100A BMS with Low-Temp Protection​

Camco Double Battery Box - Safely Stores RV, Automotive, and Marine Batteries - Features a Heavy-Duty Corrosion-Resilient Polymer Construction and Measures Inside 21-1/2" x 7-3/8" x 11-3/16"​

My inverter is an Aims 2000 W installed in the storage area close to the batteries. This meant running 12-gauge Romex to the other end of the trailer, installing a subpanel, and removing some circuits from the main power center. This was a real PIA, but I made it work.

However, this lower-priced Aims shuts down on occasion on load when trying to use my microwave. It is adequately rated, but it either doesn't like the current or voltage. I even replaced the OEM microwave with one rated much lower. Same problem with MW.

 

[skip1221]

I installed a Renogy 1000 watt inverter with UPS transfer switch in our Passport 221BH last summer. In the end I ended up purchasing an external transfer switch rather than using the one built into the inverter.

Initially I thought the inverter was faulty and replaced with a second one of the same model. It had the same issue. The inverter has to be powered on for the inverted outlets to work - even if connected to shore power. Also the output at those outlets is always restricted to the inverter's stated wattage (in my case 1000 watt) even when connected to shore power.

My needs were to have an inverter that we only power on when disconnected from shore power. Just to watch TV, charge laptops and run my 800 watt coffee pot (keurig style).

With the external transfer switch I have full 15 amp service with normal household wattage to my inverted outlets when on shore power or inverter limitation of 1000 watts when disconnected from shore power.

This is the transfer switch I used https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0BRQ7KQQ7?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title

Note that I connected inverter directly to battery. I had to use longer battery cables than those supplied (one needed to be four feet). I ran the cables up through the floor at front of pass thru storage area.

You can see from the photos that the use of external transfer switch also required a junction box. It is not as clean looking as wiring the ac feed directly to the inverter and using the built in transfer switch but it is far better functionality. The UPS transfer switch is just that. It is a Uninterruptable Power Supply the same as you would use for a computer. That is why it always has to be on. My use is for 110v use when boon docking rather than power during an unexpected power outage

Hope this is helpful

Mike Hoyt
2022 Passport 221BH

Would have loved to see a you tube video of that. All I want to do is hook up my inverter to the prep wire I dont want it for anything else But every video shows so much more

 

[mikehoyt]

Would have loved to see a you tube video of that. All I want to do is hook up my inverter to the prep wire I dont want it for anything else But every video shows so much more

You need the transfer swich if you wish to have power to the inverted outlets when inverter off and connected to shore power. You could do it without a transfer switch but then would always be drawing off the batteries to use those outlets because the inverter would have to be powered on

We leave inverter powered off except when we wish to use the inverted outlets and are boondocking. This is most of the time (inverter off)

Mike
2022 passport 221BH

 

[skip1221]

It says Renogy 2000 watt inverter comes with one but I take it you don't recommend using that internal switch ? The local dealer wanted over $2,400 to set it up Im like YIKES

The Renogy Pure Sine Wave Inverter 2000W Power Inverter 12V DC to 110V 120V AC Converter, Solar Inverter 12V to 110V 120V Converter with UPS Transfer Switch, Built-in Bluetooth, USB, Remote Controller​

 

[mikehoyt]

It says Renogy 2000 watt inverter comes with one but I take it you don't recommend using that internal switch ? The local dealer wanted over $2,400 to set it up Im like YIKES

The Renogy Pure Sine Wave Inverter 2000W Power Inverter 12V DC to 110V 120V AC Converter, Solar Inverter 12V to 110V 120V Converter with UPS Transfer Switch, Built-in Bluetooth, USB, Remote Controller​

I have the 1000w version of same inverter. Yes you can use the internal transfer switch. It requires the inverter always being powered on even when connected to shore power to get power to the outlets. The output will always be restricted to the rated capacity of the inverter. Since you have 2000w you will have 15 amp and 2000w available at the inverted outlets. In my case i did not wish to have outlets restricted to 1000 watts and did not wish to have inverter always powered on. For these reasons i opted for an external transfer switch

Mike
221bh passport

 

[skip1221]

Ok thank you for the advice

 

[Mtovaraz]

You need the transfer swich if you wish to have power to the inverted outlets when inverter off and connected to shore power. You could do it without a transfer switch but then would always be drawing off the batteries to use those outlets because the inverter would have to be powered on

We leave inverter powered off except when we wish to use the inverted outlets and are boondocking. This is most of the time (inverter off)

Mike
2022 passport 221BH

Mike,
Now I am now a little confused. Are you saying that if my Renogy 2K inverter w/transfer switch is off it will not automatically transfer from 12v inverted outlets to 120v shore ultimately powering the trailer “inverter” outlets?

 

[mikehoyt]

It will auto transfer. However think of it like a ups for a computer. We wanted to have our inverter outlets be at shore power amp and watt ratings when plugged in and only limited to inverter wattage and other restrictions when off grid. The inveter is always restricting to 2000w or in our case 1000 when on regardless of shore power

The bigger issue with the inverter is that when it is switched off there is no power to the outlets. Even when connected to the grid. We rarely turn inverter on but want powered outlets when not boon docking. That is why separare external transfer switch for us

 

[Mtovaraz]

It will auto transfer. However think of it like a ups for a computer. We wanted to have our inverter outlets be at shore power amp and watt ratings when plugged in and only limited to inverter wattage and other restrictions when off grid. The inveter is always restricting to 2000w or in our case 1000 when on regardless of shore power

The bigger issue with the inverter is that when it is switched off there is no power to the outlets. Even when connected to the grid. We rarely turn inverter on but want powered outlets when not boon docking. That is why separare external transfer switch for us

Thank you, understand. Our trailer has so many inverter supplied outlets. So, I just bought the transfer switch.

 

[flybouy]

It will auto transfer. However think of it like a ups for a computer. We wanted to have our inverter outlets be at shore power amp and watt ratings when plugged in and only limited to inverter wattage and other restrictions when off grid. The inveter is always restricting to 2000w or in our case 1000 when on regardless of shore power

The bigger issue with the inverter is that when it is switched off there is no power to the outlets. Even when connected to the grid. We rarely turn inverter on but want powered outlets when not boon docking. That is why separare external transfer switch for us

By your definition your inverter either is not a auto transfer inverter or is not wired correctly, or is defective. An out transfer switch by definition transfers the load side to the ACTIVE line automatically in. no intervention required. An auto transfer switch will pass thru the line to load when the line side detects voltage. Without line side voltage being present AND with 12v DC voltage present, the line side should disconnect and the inverter then supplies voltage to the load.

When choosing an inverter look for one with "auto transfer switch" in the description. In any inverted cir uit the current value ( watts or amps) is restricted by the wire size. If the circuit has a 12 awg comes (yellow cover) then that circuit is restricted to the ampacity of that wire which is up to 20 amps. Of course it can handle less but that 20 amps should not be exceeded or a fire could result.

 

[NH_Bulldog]

Marshall, the Renogy inverter does have an auto transfer function but is engineered to operate as a UPS (uninterruptable power supply). I spoke at length with Renogy to understand the operation of the unit and leaving the inverter on 100% of the time just so the auto transfer will work simply falls short for me so I bought a Progressive Dynamics that DOES work the way you would want/expect the Renogy to work but doesn't.

The term to keep in mind is "passthrough". When speaking about inverters, "passthrough" describes whether power will pass through the inverter while on shore power regardless of if the inverter is on or off. As Mike shared, the Renogy inverter has to be powered on in order to pass power through to the downstream outlets. This means keeping the inverter on all the time, even when on shore power or installing a manual transfer switch (which defeats the purpose of paying for an auto transfer inverter). This is why I spent a few dollars more ($385 total) and bought an inverter with the built-in auto transfer, power passthrough, and a remotely mounted control panel.

 

[chuckster57]

Any time a customer asks about inverter install, I will always recommend an inverter with “pass through”. Makes install easier and not as many components needed.

 

[mikehoyt]

By your definition your inverter either is not a auto transfer inverter or is not wired correctly, or is defective. An out transfer switch by definition transfers the load side to the ACTIVE line automatically in. no intervention required. An auto transfer switch will pass thru the line to load when the line side detects voltage. Without line side voltage being present AND with 12v DC voltage present, the line side should disconnect and the inverter then supplies voltage to the load.

When choosing an inverter look for one with "auto transfer switch" in the description. In any inverted cir uit the current value ( watts or amps) is restricted by the wire size. If the circuit has a 12 awg comes (yellow cover) then that circuit is restricted to the ampacity of that wire which is up to 20 amps. Of course it can handle less but that 20 amps should not be exceeded or a fire could result.

Only has power to the outlets when inverter is powered on. If there is line power then it is line power, if not is from batteries. However if inverter switched off there is no power to the outlets - ever. I do not like having inverter powered on unless I am off grid and specifically want it. This is because I do not want to inadvertently drain batteries from anything that may be plugged into these outlets.

My inverter was not defective and I went back and forth with Renogy support on it. it is how it works which is not how I wanted it to work. Very happy with the external transfer switch

 

[mikehoyt]

Mike,
Now I am now a little confused. Are you saying that if my Renogy 2K inverter w/transfer switch is off it will not automatically transfer from 12v inverted outlets to 120v shore ultimately powering the trailer “inverter” outlets?

yes. That is why I thought mine was defective. If you leave it powered on then it will transfer the line power to the outlets

 

[flybouy]

Yes that inverter requires constant power to operate the transfer switch. I don't have a use for an iverter or solar but if I wouldn't buy that type inverter if I did. I don't quite understand your comment about inadvertently draining the battery if something is left plugged in. If your on shore power the batteries would be charging. What would you have have plugged in and turned on when you disconnect ?