Ford Diesel Truck Recall

I never gave much thought to diesel additives although when we purchased my Sons boat the original owner told us he always used Diesel Kleen for the Cummins 6bta engines and the onan generator.

I’ve been thinking of adding something to my truck and it seems the Power Services branded additives are the only ones that Cummins approves but it looks like other additives actually work better …this video was released yesterday i believe and another one from repair geek released 3 days ago with extensive testing but it wouldn’t let me post it
 
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Could it be the missing ingredient, lubricity enhancement ??? Maybe, maybe not, but for me, it's a "feel good 2 ounces every refueling"

Yes and yes.....
Call me stupid but I will also buy the blue DEF Platinum every other 2.5 gal I put in the truck for this reason.
I asked my mechanic about it and was told it has additional lubricity in it which in turn helps with a better clean out of the system from one end to the other.
No idea if it does but it sounded good to me. :bow:
 
I run a fuel additive also. For me, since the truck was new, I've put two ounces of Diesel Kleene per refill. Usually, I refill when the tank is half empty, so that's 2 oz/15 gallons. Just under the recommended 2.5oz/10 gallons. It's a cetane booster, injector cleaner and has "SlickDiesel" lubrication additive in it. https://www.walmart.com/ip/Power-Se...Case/347223980?classType=REGULAR&from=/search

The way I understand diesel (very simplistic) is that sulfur acts as a lubricant for the high pressure pump. The C4 pump was designed to function with high sulfur diesel. It's a European pump and the EU "changed the standards for low sulfur lubricity" and added that to prevent C4 pump failures. Our "North American bureaucrats" with limited to NO knowledge of diesel fuels, failed to "notice this change requirement in Europe" and skipped over it. So, through the years, all the finger pointing toward diesel manufacturers in North America for C4 failures can, IMO, pretty much be traced back to Washington and the "stupid emissions managers" who mandated low sulfur diesel without knowing what the hell they actually specified for the fuel being pumped at every diesel station.

the sulpher actualy isn't a lubricant, it is a soft metal, but not lubrication. the problem was that the removal of sulpher also depleted the lubricative properties during the process so in europ they mandated they had to be added back in to a spicific standard. where here the standard is much lower for lubracisity (if I spelt that right)

do you know haw much cetain what you add is suposed to raise it from the base? I wish we were just mandated to hit 51 cetain as a minimum. the diesels we have would burn a little cleaner and get better milage. even highway tractors would benifit.
 
7% failure rate sounds like a good gamble to me.

that's why they haven't recalled it. this later one for 2021 and 2022 is because of people using biodiesel, they have found it leaves deposits which over time can lead to the failure of the pump so they are changing some heating and cooling parameters to reduce the formation of these deposits
 
Yes and yes.....
Call me stupid but I will also buy the blue DEF Platinum every other 2.5 gal I put in the truck for this reason.
I asked my mechanic about it and was told it has additional lubricity in it which in turn helps with a better clean out of the system from one end to the other.
No idea if it does but it sounded good to me. :bow:

are you talking def as in exhause treatment fluid? it doesn't enter the engine at all it is injected post engine between the particulat filter and the rest of the exhaust so lubrication there would have no benefit to the cp4 pump at all. def fluids are a post treatment and they just get burned off as soon as they are injected, the only thing they affet is the nox levels in the exhaust and the condition of the inside of your muffler and exhaust pipe as everything is is before the injector.
 
nox levels in the exhaust and the condition of the inside of your muffler and exhaust pipe

That's what I was being told from what I remember.
Purportedly helping to clean injectors and keep that system operating smoothly for a longer period of time.
Not that it had any benefit for the engine and fuel transfer components.
 
the sulpher actualy isn't a lubricant, it is a soft metal, but not lubrication. the problem was that the removal of sulpher also depleted the lubricative properties during the process so in europ they mandated they had to be added back in to a spicific standard. where here the standard is much lower for lubracisity (if I spelt that right)

do you know haw much cetain what you add is suposed to raise it from the base? I wish we were just mandated to hit 51 cetain as a minimum. the diesels we have would burn a little cleaner and get better milage. even highway tractors would benifit.

To a "exact definition" I agree, sulfur isn't a "direct lubricant" in the same function as oil based lubricant. That said, teflon isn't a lubricant, but enhances the "slickness" of the base metal. Sulfur works similarly to prevent "metal to metal wear" in the C4 pump.

If you remember "way back when" Pennzoil was a "sulfur based motor oil" and Quaker State was a "paraffin based motor oil"... If you ever pulled the valve covers from two similar vehicles, one with Pennzoil and one with Quaker State, you would immediately notice the significant difference in sludge buildup in the Quaker State engine.

Sulfur does cause a "protective coating" in diesel engines, but as the fuel oil burns, that expended sulfur is "bad for the atmosphere" so it was mandated to be removed to a lower level. That eliminated the "sulfur coating that reduced metal to metal wear". Europe recognized this and mandated replacement "lubricity properties for their diesel fuel" The US (and I presume Canada) failed to do that.

So, we're faced with increased C4 pump failures due to lack of lubrication properties in a pump that was designed to use the diesel fuel lubrication properties to protect the pump from metal to metal wear...

Posted previously was a comparison to European C4 failure rates and US failure rates. 1% in Europe vs 7% in North America. If that data is accurate, then that's a SIGNIFICANT issue with C4 pump failure based on diesel fuel formulation (assuming all other factors are similar on both continents)...

As for cetane rating. Murphy Oil (where I buy my diesel) ranges from 40-45 cetane based more on climate than on refining. Winter diesel has more anti-gel properties which as I understand it, decreases the cetane rating but allows the diesel to remain liquid so the engine will, at least, start in sub zero temperatures. The diesel additive I use is "claimed to increase cetane up to 6 points". That's a "claim" on the bottle, but how much "up to 6 points" reflects an increase the way I dilute it with diesel is probably significantly different than the way someone in Florida (with less winter formulation properties) would be. I don't know of any way to actually "know for certain" what the cetane rating for any given fuel station bulk tank would be, much less whether Murphy or Marathon or Exxon (which all are supplied by the same distributor in this area) are any different in cetane rating or whether they all "fill from the same distributor bulk tank"....

Anyway, you're correct in saying that sulfur is not a lubricant. But without it in adequate amounts in diesel fuel, the lubricity goes down as the sulfur content goes down... If you don't add some other "cleaner for the environment" lubricant to the low sulfur distillate, then C4 pump wear increases as we've seen in comparing Europe failure rates to North American failure rates.
 
Yes and yes.....
Call me stupid but I will also buy the blue DEF Platinum every other 2.5 gal I put in the truck for this reason.
I asked my mechanic about it and was told it has additional lubricity in it which in turn helps with a better clean out of the system from one end to the other.
No idea if it does but it sounded good to me. :bow:


I really hope you are joking and not putting DEF in your fuel tank.


On Edit: I know you are joking because it would only take a couple tanks to destroy your fuel system.
 
I really hope you are joking and not putting DEF in your fuel tank.


On Edit: I know you are joking because it would only take a couple tanks to destroy your fuel system.

A couple of tanks???? One 2.5 gallon container of DEF in the diesel tank and I doubt he'd get out of the parking lot before his truck "stopped being happy"... He'd know something was wrong, probably before he could get the truck started and in drive...
 
I really hope you are joking and not putting DEF in your fuel tank.


On Edit: I know you are joking because it would only take a couple tanks to destroy your fuel system.

Not sure where you got the idea that I was putting DEF in my fuel tank?
I know the original direction of thread was about adding fuel additives to the diesel but I never said or tried to indicate that I was putting DEF in anything BUT the DEF tank.

Sorry if what I wrote mislead you to think that.
 
To a "exact definition" I agree, sulfur isn't a "direct lubricant" in the same function as oil based lubricant. That said, teflon isn't a lubricant, but enhances the "slickness" of the base metal. Sulfur works similarly to prevent "metal to metal wear" in the C4 pump..

ill giver you that one, not a lubraicant but a sacrificial wear element that would prevent more serious dammage, the problem was it created sulpheric acid, and the removal process removed the majore lubracating elements in the diesel as a side effect. I don't know if the c4 pump was ever used when we had full sulpher diesel since the mandate in canada was 2006 for ULSD and the cp4 pump was debuted in 2011. both north america and europ were already below the 15ppm threshold by then. so sulpher isnt the factor and we are going down a wild goose chace here. the factor was that north america didn't mandate a high enough level of lubracisity to be added back to the diesel after the removal.

If you remember "way back when" Pennzoil was a "sulfur based motor oil" and Quaker State was a "paraffin based motor oil"... If you ever pulled the valve covers from two similar vehicles, one with Pennzoil and one with Quaker State, you would immediately notice the significant difference in sludge buildup in the Quaker State engine. .

that wasn't due to slufer that was due to higher detergent levels in some oils. there were a few that tyou would run for a oil change when ever you were thinking about selling a car :whistling:

Posted previously was a comparison to European C4 failure rates and US failure rates. 1% in Europe vs 7% in North America. If that data is accurate, then that's a SIGNIFICANT issue with C4 pump failure based on diesel fuel formulation (assuming all other factors are similar on both continents)....

ya its accurate, and I showed the reason, its the lubracarion level standards they have to meet in my opinion. I also bet that if we throw seperat stats in for Canada vs the USA, you'll find that it is very rare up here in canada compared to down in the US. simple reasons, less fuel companies. more strictly regulated and we use the europen standard for Luberication in our diesel fuel. I don't know of anyone or of anyone's friend of a frien that has lost a CP4 pump. I alwasy thought it was the myth from one guy in the states posting on 400 boards untill I started digging into it. 99% or the time it is a combo of the low standard for diesel fule in the us combined with lax filter changes or a station with a tone of water in their fuel.

As for cetane rating. Murphy Oil (where I buy my diesel) ranges from 40-45 cetane based more on climate than on refining. Winter diesel has more anti-gel properties which as I understand it, decreases the cetane rating but allows the diesel to remain liquid so the engine will, at least, start in sub zero temperatures. The diesel additive I use is "claimed to increase cetane up to 6 points". That's a "claim" on the bottle, but how much "up to 6 points" reflects an increase the way I dilute it with diesel is probably significantly different than the way someone in Florida (with less winter formulation properties) would be. I don't know of any way to actually "know for certain" what the cetane rating for any given fuel station bulk tank would be, much less whether Murphy or Marathon or Exxon (which all are supplied by the same distributor in this area) are any different in cetane rating or whether they all "fill from the same distributor bulk tank"....

.

ya me buying an additive for winter is useless we are mandated winter fuel at a spicific point and I have been in -40 several times and had no issues. if I am buying an additive I am lookign for increased lubracation but I may add cetain to that list and see what happens. problem is there are so many snake oils out there and which one to try
 
I have always used Power Service Diesel Supplement plus Cetane. We have a 275 gallon outside tank that we draw from for our other truck and medium duty diesel equipment and have never had any issues. I like that the product adds lubrication. There are different formulations for cold weather and "regular" weather.

https://powerservice.com/psp_product/diesel-fuel-supplement-cetane-boost/
 
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I use Power Service as well. Grey bottle though. No need for anti gel around here :)
 
Ford truck recall

Ok...let's get this thread back to the original topic!
I just received my letter from Ford today stating there is a recall on my particular truck vin number....:(
I won't type out the entire recall letter and just spit out some cliff notes.....

aged biodiesel deposits forming in the CP fuel pump
the risk...loss of motive power and increased chances of a crash :facepalm:
motive power? Does that mean my truck may just poop it's pants at any time?? :eek:

What will Ford and your dealer do? :nonono:
SOFTWARE IS NOT AVAILABLE! they are working on providing the software for the repair????? When a remedy IS available they'll be so kind and send out another letter telling us we should then contact our dealer for a pat on the back and an ata boy and get it scheduled for repair....so kind of them is the "for free" part.

OK...IMO, am I just reading a "Ford just covered their butt" letter statement so if I do get in a wreck and there's injury or worse yet a loss of life because of this failure, they can just say "I told you so, you shouldn't have been driving the truck in the first place cause I told you what might happen"

So am I not supposed to drive the truck until they HAVE THE SOFTWARE?
What happens if I do drive the truck and the CP4 goes out and destroys everything behind it? Will Ford warranty a truck past the 36K mark?

This seems eerily familiar to what I hear at the house on a weekly basis after I say hold my beer and watch this! And I hear back....
"I told you so"
:hide:
 
A "software update" to protect the C4 pump from damage caused by "aged biodiesel deposits" ????

Maybe it's my "inability to understand the power of modern software", but .....

This is one I'm going to be buying extra popcorn while I watch... And, "watch" is what I'll be doing since my 2015 C4 pump isn't getting that software update, at least not yet..... :facepalm:
 
A "software update" to protect the C4 pump from damage caused by "aged biodiesel deposits" ????

Maybe it's my "inability to understand the power of modern software", but .....

This is one I'm going to be buying extra popcorn while I watch... And, "watch" is what I'll be doing since my 2015 C4 pump isn't getting that software update, at least not yet..... :facepalm:

I’ve been looking at new trucks so this peaked my interest…I saw where chevy and ram cp4 was/is a gear driven pump off the front of the engine and the Ford 6.7 tucks the pump up towards the engine valley and because of that it’s an electric driven pump motor…. i guess it has a return line back to the tank? maybe they can use software to speed up the pump and flush the deposits back into your tank to be caught by the fuel filter? …just a guess

I’ve read where because they designed the motor around this pump and the location of the pump being buried in the valley it would require more alterations to swap it out with a cp3 because of sensor locations and plumbing the fuel lines so they probably will just bandaid to get you out of warranty
I’d change the fuel filters twice as often and constantly drain water from filter along with lubricity additive
 
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The last sentence above. Change the filters (both) when called for in the manual, drain a cup of fuel out the filter under the tank once a month checking closely for contamination and add lubricity. And don’t worry about it until 5 years or 100,000 miles when the engine warranty expires.
Ford has not issued instructions to stop driving the vehicle.
According to my commercial Ford truck service center, they are seeing a few failures, out of thousands of trucks, but most failures are lack of maintenance related (or pumping def into the tank)
But I’m betting that if there’s a problem with your truck, they are are going to try to claim some BS reason not to honor the warranty. Starting last year I am now having them do the filter changes every fall right before we head out instead of myself. Then they have the filter service records and I have the receipts.
 
...
But I’m betting that if there’s a problem with your truck, they are are going to try to claim some BS reason not to honor the warranty. Starting last year I am now having them do the filter changes every fall right before we head out instead of myself. Then they have the filter service records and I have the receipts.

That game is played by almost every manufacturer when trying to avoid paying a warranty claim. Ford is no different...

As for filter changes, I buy my filter kits from Ford, do my own labor and have the receipts as well as my "in the console log book to document date, mileage and cost for everything. That includes fuel purchase, MPG and cost of fuel, coolant checks, air filter replacements, DEF added, axle lube changes and even tire rotations. I use a little 3x5 spiral memo book since it's big enough for at least 10 years of recording the truck maintenance.

You're right, they're going to claim some BS reason to deny coverage if they can find one. So does Keystone, so does Whirlpool, so does Samsung, so does Goodyear.... I don't have any faith in "outsmarting them" but by keeping accurate personal records of everything that goes into the truck and when, at least I hope to level the playing field. YMMV

Oh yes, Last filter change, in October 24, I had the engine top fuel filter "pop its cap" and spew diesel all over the engine.... WHAT A MESS !!!!! Thank goodness the engine was cool. Had that fuel filter "blown up while towing" and spew diesel all over a hot engine, things would probably not have just been messy to clean up. Ford's response: We can sell you a new filter at cost if you bring us the defective one so we know it's not an aftermarket filter.... My response isn't printable on this forum, but without the extra words, I said, "Are you ...... me? I bought the ... filter from you 2 ,,,days ago you ......."
 

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