Fifth Wheel Dry Camping Generator vs Solar

[SerenityNow-KEY]

Took new 2023 Avalanche 321RS FW out this weekend for our first 3 night camping trip at state park campsite w/no hookups. Have 220 Solarflex for battery trickle charge. Have 2 dealer installed Interstate marine/rv batteries. We knew would need to economize on power use but didn’t expect batteries to run out of juice after 36 hours. Cold nights and furnace kicking on didn’t help. Talked to several other FW campers who almost all brought generators they ran for a couple hours each day. Wasn’t much sun during day at coast so solar not any help even if had more panels. Here is question: what would be good portable generator to get and carry along on dry camping trip outings? What do I need to make sure I get with the generator? Inverter model? Watts? Outlets? Any suggestions and advice welcome.

 

[NH_Bulldog]

We had the 220w system before we upgraded to the 440w. With the 220w setup, on a tree covered site and LiFePO4 batteries, we could go a full 3-day weekend without issue (not running a furnace though). Batteries do make a difference since you can only take those Interstate batteries (I used to have the same ones) to 50% charge before severely degrading their ability to ever take a full charge again. With lithium you can go down to 0% charge and it won’t harm them.

As far as the generator, it depends on what you want/need to run. Inverter generators are the only way to go (very quiet). If you just want to charge batteries, a 2000w is plenty, and is small and light. Champion is a decent brand at a good price. We wanted to be able to run our AC at times as well as charging the batteries, so we bought a Generac GP3000i. It weighs under 60 lbs. is super-quiet, and can power our 15k AC unit.

 

[Peto]

I have pair of Hondas. One goes with me every trip top off batteries and power coffee and blow dryer in the morning. If AC will be needed on the trip I bring the second one and run them together.

 

[SerenityNow-KEY]

We had the 220w system before we upgraded to the 440w. With the 220w setup, on a tree covered site and LiFePO4 batteries, we could go a full 3-day weekend without issue (not running a furnace though). Batteries do make a difference since you can only take those Interstate batteries (I used to have the same ones) to 50% charge before severely degrading their ability to ever take a full charge again. With lithium you can go down to 0% charge and it won’t harm them.

As far as the generator, it depends on what you want/need to run. Inverter generators are the only way to go (very quiet). If you just want to charge batteries, a 2000w is plenty, and is small and light. Champion is a decent brand at a good price. We wanted to be able to run our AC at times as well as charging the batteries, so we bought a Generac GP3000i. It weighs under 60 lbs. is super-quiet, and can power our 15k AC unit.

Thanks NH Bulldog. I am aware of the charge degradation issue for lead acid batteries and was concerned about that. When they were essentially dead I measured and volts were 12.07 and 12.06. After connected up to tow vehicle and drove for a couple hours on return trip they measured 12.3 volts. Hopefully will still take a full charge. I thought once go full inverter route and upgrade solar that was point to go lithium for batteries. Thanks for sharing can improve battery capacity and keep my starter 220 Solarflex. I will check out the Generac GP3000i. I like the weight, quiet factor, and power level. Thanks so much. Happy travels! Will keep you posted what way we go.

 

[JRTJH]

Reading your initial post and the conditions you describe, I'm surprised you got 36 hours before things started going dead... Why? I'm guessing your current batteries are a pair of GP24 FLA or possibly GP27FLA batteries??? When you first arrived and disconnected the trailer, I'd suppose you "hit the level button" and the trailer leveling system went to work. Then, you extended all three slides, then turned on the furnace. You also said that it was "pretty much overcast the entire time.

I'd make a SWAG that when you got the trailer set up, leveled and the slides extended, you likely had already used half the charge in those two batteries. Then, over the next 36 hours, the furnace and the normal battery drains (lights, TV, exhaust fans, refrigerator control system, etc) all contributed to using significantly more power than the roof panels could replenish on a cloudy day.

Looking at a 220 watt solar panel, you'll NEVER get the full "rated output". Why? Panels are mounted on the roof and the sun only hits them "squarely" for a few minutes daily, then every cloud, every tree branch, every raindrop all work against the solar panel to decrease that "maximum of 220 watts"... Often, on cloudy days, you may not achieve much more than 50-100 watts output.

So, a generator is a "must have" on a small solar system for cold weather camping. We have two Champion 2000 watt generators. In the winter, we take one with us to keep the batteries charged. In the summer we take both, parallel them and we can run ONE 15K BTU air conditioner to keep the trailer cool enough to stay comfortable until the sun goes down the the temps cool enough to open the windows and enjoy the evening cool breezes.

 

[Mike Honcho]

Our new Fuzion came with one lead acid battery that didn't make it through the night after being charged all day using the onboard generator. Besides the one too small battery there are two things drawing it down. One is the 12V refrigerator. The other is the inverter that even when not in use is drawing a lot of power. Very warm to the touch.

I put in 2 group 31 deep cycle batteries (fiasco due to the battery box mounted in wrong location) and fully charged them over a couple days. Then left lights off, fridge on, and nothing else other than Incommand powered up to see how things faired on the 440 watt PC charger. Seemed to do well at first but after a few days batteries got down to 11.7 volts in the morning. But on days we are boondocking and the generator is off the PC charger will do great keeping the batteries in good shape so that is good.

So in our brand new RV we now have the following:

Battery box cover removed since it cannot physically be used
Replaced dual batteries added (typical)
Inverter that stays powered down at the 12V disconnect
On demand water heater that will be replaced with conventional 6 gallon
New battery disconnect switch to be installed since the one it came with is wired wrong

But after what I learned from our 08 and then the dealer fiasco with our 21 (this one flooded and the new one is the replacement) I have decided to do all the troubleshooting and fixes/upgrades on my own. A dealer visit is a last resort. OP should spend a little time to figure out what is drawing the batteryies down and add the reccomended by others inverter generator to top off charge. Then if the batteries can make it overnight you are in good shape to charge up the next day.

 

[sierraman68]

I went heavy with four 6-volt batteries (and only 200W of solar) and have had plenty of capacity (without running the AC ) for several days, even without sunshine. When I say heavy, that is a lot of weight but also a lot of capacity. When I need to replace them I will definitely go to lithium. That said, I always carry one Champion 2500W generator and like John said, if I think we will need to power the AC I carry a second one and run them in parallel.

 

[SerenityNow-KEY]

Reading your initial post and the conditions you describe, I'm surprised you got 36 hours before things started going dead... Why? I'm guessing your current batteries are a pair of GP24 FLA or possibly GP27FLA batteries??? When you first arrived and disconnected the trailer, I'd suppose you "hit the level button" and the trailer leveling system went to work. Then, you extended all three slides, then turned on the furnace. You also said that it was "pretty much overcast the entire time.

I'd make a SWAG that when you got the trailer set up, leveled and the slides extended, you likely had already used half the charge in those two batteries. Then, over the next 36 hours, the furnace and the normal battery drains (lights, TV, exhaust fans, refrigerator control system, etc) all contributed to using significantly more power than the roof panels could replenish on a cloudy day.

Looking at a 220 watt solar panel, you'll NEVER get the full "rated output". Why? Panels are mounted on the roof and the sun only hits them "squarely" for a few minutes daily, then every cloud, every tree branch, every raindrop all work against the solar panel to decrease that "maximum of 220 watts"... Often, on cloudy days, you may not achieve much more than 50-100 watts output.

So, a generator is a "must have" on a small solar system for cold weather camping. We have two Champion 2000 watt generators. In the winter, we take one with us to keep the batteries charged. In the summer we take both, parallel them and we can run ONE 15K BTU air conditioner to keep the trailer cool enough to stay comfortable until the sun goes down the the temps cool enough to open the windows and enjoy the evening cool breezes.

You were spot on JRTJH with understanding the leveling and slide extension load we put on our batteries during set up. Like I said this was our first dry camp test with the new Avalanche so we were trying to be fairly conservative with battery load to see if could make it two nights. Didn’t use tv. Fridge on propane. Main load was water pump, lights, and furnace after leveling and slides. I feel a little better to have gotten 36 hours since as you say you didn’t think we should have gotten that far even with solar trickle charge. Now immersed in Generator search. A lot of post responders have a Champion. The Generac also looks good. Wen has decently priced dual fuel models. Honda’s seem way overpriced. Will let you all know what direction we go. Thanks for your help.

 

[SerenityNow-KEY]

We had the 220w system before we upgraded to the 440w. With the 220w setup, on a tree covered site and LiFePO4 batteries, we could go a full 3-day weekend without issue (not running a furnace though). Batteries do make a difference since you can only take those Interstate batteries (I used to have the same ones) to 50% charge before severely degrading their ability to ever take a full charge again. With lithium you can go down to 0% charge and it won’t harm them.

As far as the generator, it depends on what you want/need to run. Inverter generators are the only way to go (very quiet). If you just want to charge batteries, a 2000w is plenty, and is small and light. Champion is a decent brand at a good price. We wanted to be able to run our AC at times as well as charging the batteries, so we bought a Generac GP3000i. It weighs under 60 lbs. is super-quiet, and can power our 15k AC unit.

Question for NH Bulldog and any others who have made switch from lead acid to Lithium batteries: is it ok to simply replace lead acid batteries with LiFePO4 batteries without changing anything in the Solarflex 220 equipment configuration or settings. I don’t want to think I am solving one issue but causing a new problem somewhere else.

 

[NH_Bulldog]

Two things you need to be aware of; 1) you will need to change the solar charge controller settings so that it understands that it is charging lithium batteries and the size of them. 2) you will need to ensure that your converter is capable of, and setup for, charging lithium batteries.

I have a Victron solar controller and using a simple online guide it only takes a couple of minutes through the app to set it up correctly. As for the converter, well that is going to be hit or miss. You likely have a deck-mount converter and to give you next steps with that, you will need to first find it and let me know the model number of the converter. It is almost always located in a space behind the main power center (fuse and breaker panel).

 

[SerenityNow-KEY]

Two things you need to be aware of; 1) you will need to change the solar charge controller settings so that it understands that it is charging lithium batteries and the size of them. 2) you will need to ensure that your converter is capable of, and setup for, charging lithium batteries.

I have a Victron solar controller and using a simple online guide it only takes a couple of minutes through the app to set it up correctly. As for the converter, well that is going to be hit or miss. You likely have a deck-mount converter and to give you next steps with that, you will need to first find it and let me know the model number of the converter. It is almost always located in a space behind the main power center (fuse and breaker panel).

Appreciate fast and detailed response NH Bulldog. I suspected there were things I would need to address and make sure to get right if/when making battery switch. We are taking the Avalanche out this weekend back to coast (will have power connection) and I will take some pix of our solar controller and see if can locate the converter. The rig is parked at a remote lot so can’t just run out to get fast answers. Stand by and thanks again.

 

[SerenityNow-KEY]

Hi NH Bulldog. Getting back to you on the controller for our 2023 Avalanche FW. Here is photo of a box that is mounted in area directly behind our main electrical panel. Not sure if this photo can provide model number info you asked me to share. What I can tell you is it would be a pain to get to this component to work on but it can be accessed where it is mounted on wall under bathroom vanity.

 

[NH_Bulldog]

That is the converter for sure, but I can’t tell much of anything from the picture other than my converter had the same Firmware version 1.19. The main label on mine is also much larger. To really know for certain, you will have to try to get a better view of the rest of the unit. This is what mine looks like for comparison after I removed it from its mounting location in the RV.

 

[JBM3M]

I am a bit late on jumping in on this but my opinion is as follows. My unit has 840W of solar panels, two 400 Ah liPoFe4 batteries and some days just don't get enough sun. I have two free standing generators. A Honda 3000 Eu and if I don't need AC it is perfect. I also keep a 9000 W generator in the bed of the truck always. It will run both my ac units in the summer. We prefer to boondock, but it isn't always feasable, but with either genset I can do what I want.

 

[SerenityNow-KEY]

I am a bit late on jumping in on this but my opinion is as follows. My unit has 840W of solar panels, two 400 Ah liPoFe4 batteries and some days just don't get enough sun. I have two free standing generators. A Honda 3000 Eu and if I don't need AC it is perfect. I also keep a 9000 W generator in the bed of the truck always. It will run both my ac units in the summer. We prefer to boondock, but it isn't always feasable, but with either genset I can do what I want.

Thanks JBM3M for sharing your advice and generator setup. I an envious of your solar and battery configuration. Sounds ideal for when the sun is out. I am getting cold feet on digging in to change out electrical components to handle switch to lithium batteries, more solar capacity, and adding an inverter. Sounds really complex. I am leaning to going with a pair of 3000 watt generators and carrying one in mild months and both during hot months can run in parallel when dry camping. Leaning towards the Generac GP3300i but still doing research. Other brands are better value than Generac (Champion, AiPower, WEN 3600 dual fuel also a contender).

 

[JBM3M]

My Honda 3000 is26 years old and still starts right up.