Drowning in knowledge regarding towing capability

[SargeW]

Weight discussions usually provoke strong opinions on opposite sides. I see it on several different forums, and they can get "heated". But one thing I know for sure, if I even had a shadow of a suspicion that I was over weight, over height, or over anything that may violate the law, I would NEVER document it in any type of social media.

It may never be an issue in a criminal trial, but why take the chance?

 

[vampress]

Thanks Lynette. Yes, I have no doubt a dually pulls through a 9' garage door. Your 24' 10" garage is not a run of the mill, standard issue garage length. Without going out to measure I believe mine is 24' as I spec'd (don't remember) but I also put a 30" elevated portion in the front of it for my "stuff". Most houses built I have seen have that elevated section but I don't travel all 50 states looking at new houses. Width? Mine is 9' wide. A dually will fit into it but virtually all duallys are too long. My mirrors have to come in and I can't imagine that other folks don't pull them in as well. Width wise on the dually, I have no desire to try to fit one in a garage door to have a dually.

"Or, it’s just a great excuse for them to brag about what they can’t do". LOL, certainly not a case of saying what I can't do, simply a matter of what I won't do and see no purpose in...for me. You are different I assume but never assume that someone that sees no logic in trying to stuff size 12 feet in a size 10 shoe can't do it....they just choose not to.

A dually being too long compared to a SRW is the part that makes no sense to me. Our 2009 F-350 CCLB SRW was longer than our 2016 CCLB SRW when I stuck a tape on them. The length is more a matter of year of truck than whether it is a DRW or a SRW.

But, length of garage? Yes, that is a matter for a home builder/ home buyer to ensure a garage is long enough for a CCLB truck. But, even our truck is only 266” (22’-2”) long, so fits in a 24’ long garage with a teensy tiny bit to spare. Now, the garages that are common for the cheap builders in our area? Yeah, can’t stuff a 22’ long truck in a garage that’s 21’-6” long.

But, both that and the my comment of “a great excuse for them to brag about what they can’t do” was directed only at the one who stated he has a long bed SRW truck in his garage but cannot fit a DRW in there. If it’s a matter of length and it not fitting, that makes no sense since the DRW is the same length as a SRW. A truck length is a truck length if comparing apples to apples for type of truck (whether LB, CC, SB, or single cab). Width? May make a difference, but, any garage that has a door 9’ wide will fit a DRW.

I would have loved to have kept our SRW. Easier to park, in garage or in some big city parking lots, easier to get in and out of the bed if I need to go over the side, easier to see the hitch from the side because I’m too short to see over the dually into the bed of the truck. But, it wasn’t in the plan apparently since we got a heavier camper than the door sticker would allow, legally. And, I will be the first to admit that when we had the Cougar I was totally underwhelmed by the dually and saw no difference in towing when compared to the SRW. With the heavier and taller Paradigm I feel a definite difference in towing, especially in 60 mph crosswinds in WY. That is where I understood/ was happy to have a dually.

 

[sourdough]

Well I will 100% agree with your first paragraph, and mostly disagree with the second.
We are talking lots with spots perpendicular to the lane of travel. With the addition of a backup camera, I can get within an inch of an obstacle behind me. Long truck, narrow lane, much, much easer to back in.
As I stated before it also puts the DRW “Hips” out of the way. I can back in easily between two cars, I could never dive in between them with the front.

Again, the choice to back in depends on many variables. It is not always the easiest or safest way to park. The addition of backup cameras changes the conversation to a great degree but not all trucks have backup cameras...many, and I would venture a guess most, don't. Even then I don't trust them to within 1" and I've got them on all my vehicles and have had for years.

 

[sourdough]

A dually being too long compared to a SRW is the part that makes no sense to me. Our 2009 F-350 CCLB SRW was longer than our 2016 CCLB SRW when I stuck a tape on them. The length is more a matter of year of truck than whether it is a DRW or a SRW.

But, length of garage? Yes, that is a matter for a home builder/ home buyer to ensure a garage is long enough for a CCLB truck. But, even our truck is only 266” (22’-2”) long, so fits in a 24’ long garage with a teensy tiny bit to spare. Now, the garages that are common for the cheap builders in our area? Yeah, can’t stuff a 22’ long truck in a garage that’s 21’-6” long.

But, both that and the my comment of “a great excuse for them to brag about what they can’t do” was directed only at the one who stated he has a long bed SRW truck in his garage but cannot fit a DRW in there. If it’s a matter of length and it not fitting, that makes no sense since the DRW is the same length as a SRW. A truck length is a truck length if comparing apples to apples for type of truck (whether LB, CC, SB, or single cab). Width? May make a difference, but, any garage that has a door 9’ wide will fit a DRW.

I would have loved to have kept our SRW. Easier to park, in garage or in some big city parking lots, easier to get in and out of the bed if I need to go over the side, easier to see the hitch from the side because I’m too short to see over the dually into the bed of the truck. But, it wasn’t in the plan apparently since we got a heavier camper than the door sticker would allow, legally. And, I will be the first to admit that when we had the Cougar I was totally underwhelmed by the dually and saw no difference in towing when compared to the SRW. With the heavier and taller Paradigm I feel a definite difference in towing, especially in 60 mph crosswinds in WY. That is where I understood/ was happy to have a dually.

Sorry I misunderstood your comment. I would love for a drw to fit better in my garage but it doesn't..it would definitely untie my hands on what I could own for an RV but.... I also hate that I didn't spec my garage larger when I built this house. I had the builder widen it 2' from the plans (should have been more) but did not extend it any much to my later dismay. I had a single cab lwb pickup at the time and didn't foresee anything larger as I had been told I would be gone in about a year and a half...now going on 34 years. A drw, cc, swb truck "might" squeeze into that space but I would never try because it would just be too tight for other things. My breaker box and all the controls for my watering systems are on the outside wall. I can currently open the door and barely, barely squeak by the rear corner of the truck to get to them with the truck inside currently. The extra width would prohibit that as I have an entire row of hitches, mudflaps, floor jacks, jack stands etc. along that wall as well. The extra width would push me into either moving all that or just not try to get along that wall.

I totally understand liking/wanting a drw. I also understand they "can" go into a garage but the garage itself is a prime consideration which then makes each circumstance basically a standalone situation. Now, I truly, truly wish I had built a garage like DD's. The architect that built her house for himself prior to her purchase had the right idea. It's in FL and was built to withstand a hurricane so the construction is unbelievably robust. When you pull a truck into a stall there is enough room on either side for another vehicle and the length leaves enough room for 2 vehicles to park end to end (almost) - and that's with shelving and work benches along the back and side walls. Alas she has it and I don't...and I'm not moving to FL. We have however discussed building a large building on our property next door but property restrictions make it a bit onerous - it has to be brick (substantial cost) which we're not sure we want to do. Until then I am going to park a SWB, SRW, CC truck in that space and others can park their DRWs in their garages and we'll all be happy...well, almost in my case.

 

[Travelin' Texans]

I think all this is falling on deaf ears!!.
I'd guess the OP has left the building towing however with whatever he wants to & as he stated didn't really care about anyone else's opinions, factual or not!

 

[army1rob]

Well you might have had a little bit of credibility up until that line. No issues! 50 mph winds are a pain for us even when we're loaded to 80,000. Or does "no issues" just mean that you didn't wreck? There's always one.....so yeah, pointless to disagree. You're gonna do it your way regardless.

I guess my threshold for tolerance and yours are not the same. I didn’t say my buthole didn’t pucker some just that I didn’t feel like I never had problems controlling my rig.

 

[Global Driver]

What are you all using for a max load percentage?

Is 75-80% of max a common goal?
Thinking if GCWR is 23,000lbs….the shoot for 18,000lbs
Same 75-80% target applies for max trailer, max tongue weight, etc

Not terribly fond of going north of 90%.
Thoughts from the tribe?!?!

 

[NH_Bulldog]

I think most people are less concerned with total weight, since pin weight or tongue weight will max out long before trailer weight becomes a factor. For me personally, I don’t exceed 90% of any capacity

 

[Global Driver]

To further compound the problem.....

We speak to the pin weight or tongue weight that the truck is carrying...not towing.
In the example that you have an 11,500lb 5'er....pin weight of 2008 lbs.

Obviously the truck is carrying the 2008 lbs of pin weight.
Would you subtract that 2008 lbs from the trailer empty weight when calculating total tow capacity?

(Truck+Pax+Pin Weight) + Trailer = must be less than GCWR

Thinking if you add the 2008 to the truck carry weight.....since that 2008lbs is already part of the trailer....are you then doubling penalizing yourself?

You are now carrying 2008lbs (pin weight) as well as towing the 2008lbs


Clear as mud?

 

[LHaven]

No. Just because the truck is carrying the pin weight doesn't mean that it's not also towing it. The truck is towing the whole weight, and also carrying part of it. Tow capacity is a measure of engine and drivetrain stress, and you're loading both of these with all the weight.

 

[wiredgeorge]

To further compound the problem.....

We speak to the pin weight or tongue weight that the truck is carrying...not towing.
In the example that you have an 11,500lb 5'er....pin weight of 2008 lbs.

Obviously the truck is carrying the 2008 lbs of pin weight.
Would you subtract that 2008 lbs from the trailer empty weight when calculating total tow capacity?

(Truck+Pax+Pin Weight) + Trailer = must be less than GCWR

Thinking if you add the 2008 to the truck carry weight.....since that 2008lbs is already part of the trailer....are you then doubling penalizing yourself?

You are now carrying 2008lbs (pin weight) as well as towing the 2008lbs


Clear as mud?

Not sure where you are coming up with this pin weight since you didn't quote anyone. Pin weight of an 11500 lb gross weight camper will be north of 2600 lbs. You will need to add weight of passengers and cargo in the truck. North of 3000 lbs. Just look at the yellow/white placard for an idea if your payload capacity is adequate. The tow capacity is a number made up by the manufacturer based on a test that in no way replicates pulling a camper of any sort and relies on the most capable engine, transmission and towing package in the lineup. Your actual towing capacity will be much lower and you will likely be limited by PAYLOAD.

 

[LHaven]

Not sure where you are coming up with this pin weight since you didn't quote anyone.

It's not real, just a question. The TL;DR was: do you get to subtract the trailer weight's pin-load fraction you carry as cargo from the total trailer weight subjected to your tow rating limit?

 

[Global Driver]

It's not real, just a question. The TL;DR was: do you get to subtract the trailer weight's pin-load fraction you carry as cargo from the total trailer weight subjected to your tow rating limit?

Exactly. That pin weight was just a number I threw out there.

In my head is that you can't carry and tow the same number.
It at least as to have some 80/20 type of deal.

Carry 2600lbs due the pin but you can't also be pulling the same 2600lbs.

 

[DutchmenSport]

I just re-read this thread again... It made my head hurt even more this time! I'm lost in the numbers. Um ... just get the diesel dually 3500 or F350 and forget about the weights then. It's much simpler!

 

[Kirk's Outback.]

All these "duallys fit in a garage" etc. comments need to furnish garage specs. Duallys do not fit in normal car sized garage...I know. Now, does one want to spend 15 minutes trying to center the truck exactly in the middle of the door and hopefully not scrape the skirts of the 90k truck? Not me. Push the nose into the front wall of the garage and dent the sheetrock to get the butt end in? Not me. Measurements would be nice.

My house/garage is about 40 years old and I can barely fit my stock F250 in my 2.5 car garage. I'm maxed at height with 1" to spare because of garage door and the opener. I have a 2" cushion in front and a foot in rear, just enough to walk around. So garages are not created equal. They're even worse on newer builds, intended for Mini Coopers.

 

[SargeW]

My house/garage is about 40 years old and I can barely fit my stock F250 in my 2.5 car garage. I'm maxed at height with 1" to spare because of garage door and the opener. I have a 2" cushion in front and a foot in rear, just enough to walk around. So garages are not created equal. They're even worse on newer builds, intended for Mini Coopers.

Shoot, my 35 year old house barely fits my 1/2 ton Ram. I mean like 2" front and rear room. But I found this laser parking device on Amazon that makes it pretty easy. Just set it once and hit the laser mark on your vehicle and it works every time. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07HHGRWS8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Now I am contemplating "stretching" both garage doors out 5' to make them easier to fit. I have done it once before!

 

[Kirk's Outback.]

Shoot, my 35 year old house barely fits my 1/2 ton Ram. I mean like 2" front and rear room. But I found this laser parking device on Amazon that makes it pretty easy. Just set it once and hit the laser mark on your vehicle and it works every time. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07HHGRWS8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Now I am contemplating "stretching" both garage doors out 5' to make them easier to fit. I have done it once before!

That's neat. I ride in until my front wheels hit the aircraft chocks. Can't use the right side because that where all my mechanical junk is scattered.

 

[LHaven]

Exactly. That pin weight was just a number I threw out there.

In my head is that you can't carry and tow the same number.
It at least as to have some 80/20 type of deal.

Carry 2600lbs due the pin but you can't also be pulling the same 2600lbs.

I think to the contrary, you do have to claim it both ways; but I can't make a simple limit-case argument (like a giant truck camper) because tow capacity is always much greater than cargo capacity.

 

[Badbart56]

All these "duallys fit in a garage" etc. comments need to furnish garage specs. Duallys do not fit in normal car sized garage...I know. Now, does one want to spend 15 minutes trying to center the truck exactly in the middle of the door and hopefully not scrape the skirts of the 90k truck? Not me. Push the nose into the front wall of the garage and dent the sheetrock to get the butt end in? Not me. Measurements would be nice.

Not a garage, but a carport. Yes, it sticks out a bit. The Escalade fits, but barely. I usually keep my CTS V where the dually is parked but it’s in the shop.

 

[jfk69]

I read the original post and skipped everything in between. No, it’s not enough truck for THAT camper. You’re over payload the minute you drop the pin before you even climb in. The major reason why 3/4 ton diesels are not super useful is lack of payload due to the heavy diesel engine.