Axle Swap - For those that have done it, how difficult?

[SoCalAngler]

Considering replacing the two AL-KO T44 axles on my 2011 Outback 250RS.
Parts (brakes, drums, etc.) for these axles are no longer available.

I can have the axles custom made to order. 2 Axle manufacturers are near me (Friedl and Dexter) are 1.5 hours from my home.

I will go with either 5200/6000 axles. I believe the 5200# and 6000# should be plenty as they both have 5 leaf springs vs my current 4.

Those that have done this tandem axle swap....

1. Are there are pros/cons to going with either the 5200# or 6000# axle? I don't want to trailer to ride excessively more stiff than OEM. I will be adding the MORryde CRE300 and wet bolt kit to new axles.

2. How difficult is it?

3. Can it be done alone or is a second person needed?

4. What are some Tips to a SAFE and successful job completion?

5. ALL tools needed?

6. Jack from frame or under axle U bolts?

7. I have the complete undercarriage plastic covering and it bolts to frame (where jack and jackstand would be placed...how to get around this?

Thanks!

 

[chuckster57]

I have done plenty. You can use the frame to hold the trailer up in the air, the jack stands wont "hurt" the coroplast. Make sure the springs are the same length, and I would install wet bolts. Two people make it easier but one can do it.

The spring perches wont be welded onto the axle, so you'll have to measure 3 times and then weld. If you have any other questions feel free to PM me.

 

[Raptor Dave]

Considering replacing the two AL-KO T44 axles on my 2011 Iutback 250RS.
Parts (brakes, drums, etc.) for these axles are no longer available.

I can have the axles custom made to order. 2 Axle manufacturers are near me (Freidl and Dexter) are 1.5 hours from my home.

I will go with either 5200/6000 axles. I believe the 5200# should be plenty as it is 5 leaf springs vs my current 4.

Those that have done this tandem axle swap....

1. How difficult is it?
2. Can it be done alone or is a second person needed?
3. What are some Tips to a SAFE and successful job completion?
4. ALL tools needed?
5. Jack from frame or under axle U bolts?
6. I have the complete undercarriage plastic covering and it bolts to frame (where jack and/or jackstand would be placed...how to get around this?

Thanks!

A few things I've learned....
1. not really that difficult if you're half mechanically inclined
2. i have done spring changes, CRE replace, but never a whole axle change. But doing that was right there the same just didn't replace them.
3. Go slow, don't get in any hurries. If you can't finish the job in on day, there's always tomorrow.
4. An impact wrench and a torque wrench are both almost must haves. You can do it without but I wouldn't.
5. I raised the whole trailer from the back and used some cribbing blocks under the rear bumper/frame high enough to get both axles off the ground.
6. Not sure what you mean here. Mine complete under cover also, but the hangers are welded to the frame and didn't need to touch the under cover stuff.

I would also replace the bushings on all the spring eye holes with bronze bushings whether they look good or not. Make sure all the wet bolts are working properly and are not worn. Replace as needed. If you have to replace one or 2 might as well just do them all while you have it apart. They're not that expensive.
Depending on how many miles you have on your house, may as well do the wheel bearings and look at the brake pads while you have it apart also.

I'm sure I missed something but that should get you started.

 

[SoCalAngler]

Thanks for the advice chuckster57. BTW...my name is Chuck too!!

Thanks for offer....I just may PM you as I get closer to tackling this job.

The axles will be custom built and I will take one axle to manufacturer so that they can ensure correct HF and SC measurements.

 

[SoCalAngler]

A few things I've learned....
1. not really that difficult if you're half mechanically inclined
2. i have done spring changes, CRE replace, but never a whole axle change. But doing that was right there the same just didn't replace them.
3. Go slow, don't get in any hurries. If you can't finish the job in on day, there's always tomorrow.
4. An impact wrench and a torque wrench are both almost must haves. You can do it without but I wouldn't.
5. I raised the whole trailer from the back and used some cribbing blocks under the rear bumper/frame high enough to get both axles off the ground.
6. Not sure what you mean here. Mine complete under cover also, but the hangers are welded to the frame and didn't need to touch the under cover stuff.

I would also replace the bushings on all the spring eye holes with bronze bushings whether they look good or not. Make sure all the wet bolts are working properly and are not worn. Replace as needed. If you have to replace one or 2 might as well just do them all while you have it apart. They're not that expensive.
Depending on how many miles you have on your house, may as well do the wheel bearings and look at the brake pads while you have it apart also.

I'm sure I missed something but that should get you started.

I will install the MORryde CRE300 equalizers and the MORryde wet bolt kit.

#6....My colorplast goes to edge of frame ends and it bolted. I was referring to placing floor jack under frame tio lift and placing jackstand under frame once lifted....they will both touch/hit the colorplast. Since colorplast is flexible, perhaps it is a non issue.

Where did you exactly lift from rear to get both wheels off ground?
Was it from a single lift point?
I would think it would have to pretty high to get both wheels off ground if only lifting from rear.

Where did you place cribbing?

I was planning on lifting one side at a time (lift from frame or under u bolts) with my 3 ton floor jack and placing two 6 ton jack stands, one a few feet in front of forward axle and one to rear of rear axle to balance weight of trailer. I would do same for other side. Once trailer is completely lifted and on jack stands, I would proceed with axle swap.

 

[JRTJH]

If you are considering installing axles other than Dexter or Lippert, I'd recommend confirming how that specific axle routes the brake wiring from one side to the other. Dexter and Lippert route the wires "through the inside of the axle beam"... Some others expect the owner/installer to just use tape or zip ties to route the wires on the OUTSIDE of the axle beam...

Either way will work, but one is potentially much less problematic "when things go south"...

All axles are not created equally when it comes to RV's. Be sure you're getting the features that make the axles as reliable as possible...

As for measuring, usually there is a tag/decal on the current axles that will give you the "hub face" and "spring hanger" measurements. On my Lippert axles that I replaced, these measurements were included in the part number.

Hub Face = 86.5"
Spring Hanger = 68.5"

Your axle tag likely has the same information posted, possibly in a different format, but it should be there. Then, all you have to do is measure to confirm what you "think is on the decal" is "what the measurements really are"... For me, it's a "confirmation that my measurements are correct"...

Here's a photo of my old axle decal

 

[SoCalAngler]

If you are considering installing axles other than Dexter or Lippert, I'd recommend confirming how that specific axle routes the brake wiring from one side to the other. Dexter and Lippert route the wires "through the inside of the axle beam"... Some others expect the owner/installer to just use tape or zip ties to route the wires on the OUTSIDE of the axle beam...

Either way will work, but one is potentially much less problematic "when things go south"...

All axles are not created equally when it comes to RV's. Be sure you're getting the features that make the axles as reliable as possible...

As for measuring, usually there is a tag/decal on the current axles that will give you the "hub face" and "spring hanger" measurements. On my Lippert axles that I replaced, these measurements were included in the part number.

Hub Face = 86.5"
Spring Hanger = 68.5"

Your axle tag likely has the same information posted, possibly in a different format, but it should be there. Then, all you have to do is measure to confirm what you "think is on the decal" is "what the measurements really are"... For me, it's a "confirmation that my measurements are correct"...

Here's a photo of my old axle decal

Thanks for tip on where wiring is routed! I'm assuming inside axle is preferred?

I do not have a decal or tag on my axles.
Attached is all that is listed on my axles....

 

[JRTJH]

For me, brake wires inside the axle beam is preferred. Also preferred is "dual lipped seals (as built with the EZ Lube system) over the single lipped seals on "straight cargo trailer axles", self adjusting brakes and 12x2" brake assemblies over the 10x2.25" brake assemblies.

 

[SoCalAngler]

For me, brake wires inside the axle beam is preferred. Also preferred is "dual lipped seals (as built with the EZ Lube system) over the single lipped seals on "straight cargo trailer axles", self adjusting brakes and 12x2" brake assemblies over the 10x2.25" brake assemblies.

Attached are axle specs from Friedl axle....

 

[JRTJH]

Based on the info in that specifications chart, both the 5200 and the 6000 pound axle choices give you the OPTIONS for some upgrades and if you don't choose the options, then you might wind up with a "lesser axle" than the standard Dexter RV axle. Go over the choices, look at the top of each column and you'll see that some specs you have to "choose the optional feature" to get an "RV axle comparable to what's on your trailer now and what is being installed on current build trailers"...

I don't see any indication as to where the brake wires are located. That could be a simple overlook or it could mean that there is NO PROVISION for the wiring and that company leaves it up to the installer to "figure it out"....

To me, that spec chart gives you the choice of building an "RV upgrade axle" or building a "standard grade utility axle"... Choose wisely.

 

[Raptor Dave]

I will install the MORryde CRE300 equalizers and the MORryde wet bolt kit.

#6....My colorplast goes to edge of frame ends and it bolted. I was referring to placing floor jack under frame tio lift and placing jackstand under frame once lifted....they will both touch/hit the colorplast. Since colorplast is flexible, perhaps it is a non issue.

Where did you exactly lift from rear to get both wheels off ground?
Was it from a single lift point?
I would think it would have to pretty high to get both wheels off ground if only lifting from rear.

Where did you place cribbing?

I was planning on lifting one side at a time (lift from frame or under u bolts) with my 3 ton floor jack and placing two 6 ton jack stands, one a few feet in front of forward axle and one to rear of rear axle to balance weight of trailer. I would do same for other side. Once trailer is completely lifted and on jack stands, I would proceed with axle swap.

Unconventional but works for me. My trailer has a pretty good rear bumper and a trunk welded into the floor at the back. That's where I blocked it up. Used my hydraulic levelers to lift it. Stuck some cribbing in and let the pressure off.
I wasn't sure it would get it high enough at first but worked out.
I used a bottle jack and ratchet straps on the axles to help support and move them as needed.
Yea, I didn't like the coroplast on frame either that's why I didn't jack there or support there.
Just go slow and think about the next move before you finish the one you're on. I had to back track a couple times because I didn't think about what was going to happen if I did this or that. Not too bad of stuff but I hate going backwards to go forward if I don't need to.
Just be safe in what you do and try not to over think it.

 

[Lee-KEY]

Hi. Just last year I replaced the OEM AL-KO axles on my 2013 Cougar for the exact same reason as you. No parts availability.

I replaced the OEM 4400lb axles with 4400lb units from Lippert. I choose Lippert and 4400lb axles due to the fact they have a direct replacement (measurement wise) axle that comes with the spring perches already mounted in the correct location. No need to $hire$ a welder to weld them which I would have had to do if upgrading to 5200lp units.

I did not replace the springs. I un-bolted the OEM axles at the U-bolt shackles. I already had the CRE3000 and wet blot kit installed years ago.

I also opted to NOT use the supplied in axle brake wiring as the gauge was tiny. I used duplex 10ga wire zip tided to the rear of each axle.

Trailer was supported on jack stands on the frame rails.

I performed all of this work solo with common hand tools. A transmission jack made the job much easier as I could use it to lower the OEM unit and raise the replacement axles with ease. I did use my pneumatic ratchet though ;-)

 

[SoCalAngler]

axle specs

Does the axle specs appear to read (pic with painted stencil numbers/letters)?
Note: There is no tag or decal on my axles.

I'm assuming the numbers/letters indicate:

Hub Face 85"
Spring centers: 68.5"

I see clearly the T4485/68 5-TMUI (or TMUL)
I do not see a decimal between 8 and 5

Thoughts?

 

[SoCalAngler]

Hi. Just last year I replaced the OEM AL-KO axles on my 2013 Cougar for the exact same reason as you. No parts availability.

I replaced the OEM 4400lb axles with 4400lb units from Lippert. I choose Lippert and 4400lb axles due to the fact they have a direct replacement (measurement wise) axle that comes with the spring perches already mounted in the correct location. No need to $hire$ a welder to weld them which I would have had to do if upgrading to 5200lp units.

I did not replace the springs. I un-bolted the OEM axles at the U-bolt shackles. I already had the CRE3000 and wet blot kit installed years ago.

I also opted to NOT use the supplied in axle brake wiring as the gauge was tiny. I used duplex 10ga wire zip tided to the rear of each axle.

Trailer was supported on jack stands on the frame rails.

I performed all of this work solo with common hand tools. A transmission jack made the job much easier as I could use it to lower the OEM unit and raise the replacement axles with ease. I did use my pneumatic ratchet though ;-)

Lee, what were your AL-KO axle specs? Were they painted on the axle like mine? I see that yours and JRTJH's are both HF 86"....where mine appear to be 85.

 

[MCBadgett]

I jacked mine up from under the axle U bolts. Then used jack stands on solid cribbage to the frame. Your floor jack will be a big help moving the axle to the right place to get the bolts back in place. I did it by myself, repacked the bearings (don't trust the axle maker to do more than supply the parts). Taking my time, it took me 2 days. That was installing the wet bolt kit also. Also of help is a small furniture dolly, I used this to put one end of the axle on, so I could grab the other end and push the dolly end under the trailer.

 

[Lee-KEY]

Lee, what were your AL-KO axle specs? Were they painted on the axle like mine? I see that yours and JRTJH's are both HF 86"....where mine appear to be 85.

Here is a pic of the axle tag on the old AL-KO axles I replaced.

 

[SoCalAngler]

Here is a pic of the axle tag on the old AL-KO axles I replaced.

Your old axle appears to have an 85” HF

Your new axle has a HF of 86”

Was the 1” longer axle intentional?

 

[Lee-KEY]

Your old axle appears to have an 85” HF

Your new axle has a HF of 86”

Was the 1” longer axle intentional?

No Sir, it was not intentional. It's just what Lippert had as a direct replacement axle. When I discussed the 1in difference with them they assured me the extra 1/2 inch on each end of the axles would not be an issue.

 

[JRTJH]

Reading through this thread again, one thing I didn't mention when it comes to 12" vs 10" brakes is the drum size.... I definitely prefer 12" brakes in every application where they can be used, but that said, if you have 14" tires, then in almost all cases, you are going to be forced to use 10" brakes so the drums will fit inside the wheel.

So, if you have 14" tires, you probably won't be able to use 12" brakes.

Now, as for the two axle measurements, the hub face is not "critical". A 1" difference in almost all axle changeouts won't matter. Even a 2" changeout will be "OK" (but not preferred) in most. As Lee said, 1" greater hubface only means the wheel sits 1/2" closer to or further from the frame rails and the outer edge of the wheel well. It won't make a difference for almost all trailers.

What is critical, is the spring hanger measurement. An inch there means that the springs don't sit vertical. They will either "pull the spring hangers in or push them out" which twists the frame rails and can create problems with alignment, tracking and put undue stress on the trailer frame rails and cross members... So, the spring hanger measurement needs to be the same as the old axles (assuming Keystone built it correctly the first time)......

 

[SoCalAngler]

Reading through this thread again, one thing I didn't mention when it comes to 12" vs 10" brakes is the drum size.... I definitely prefer 12" brakes in every application where they can be used, but that said, if you have 14" tires, then in almost all cases, you are going to be forced to use 10" brakes so the drums will fit inside the wheel.

So, if you have 14" tires, you probably won't be able to use 12" brakes.

Now, as for the two axle measurements, the hub face is not "critical". A 1" difference in almost all axle changeouts won't matter. Even a 2" changeout will be "OK" (but not preferred) in most. As Lee said, 1" greater hubface only means the wheel sits 1/2" closer to or further from the frame rails and the outer edge of the wheel well. It won't make a difference for almost all trailers.

What is critical, is the spring hanger measurement. An inch there means that the springs don't sit vertical. They will either "pull the spring hangers in or push them out" which twists the frame rails and can create problems with alignment, tracking and put undue stress on the trailer frame rails and cross members... So, the spring hanger measurement needs to be the same as the old axles (assuming Keystone built it correctly the first time)......

Thanks for all of the tips/advice!

A few more questions.......

1. My wheels are 15". I wonder If I need to take a wheel with me to verify if it will fit the 12" 6000 axle drums (decided to go with 6K axles)?

2. I have been reading about brake wiring and the pros/cons to running wire in or out of axle tube. It appears many prefer running outside so as to avoid chafe that will occur over time inside axle. Also, large gauge wire is preferred (10AWG) over the OEM of 18AWG. Thoughts on IN vs OUT wiring and gauge size?

3. I did measure my spring centers are they are 68.5". So, the AL-KO painted letters/numbers are correct....T4485/68 5

4. I checked with axle manufacturer and we confirmed my wants.....

6K Axle with 12" Brakes
EZ-Lube axle
Double-Lipped Seals
Self-Adjusting brakes
The last thing manufacturer wants to know....Do I want wires In or Out of axle tube?

NOTE: Friedl Axles uses Dexter #42 Spindle....which is supposed to be the most common of all spindles for 6K axles. With the use of this spindle, All 6K parts (brakes, drums, backing plates, complete brake assemblies, etc) will fit Friedl axles.

Have I missed anything?