Auto-Detect Converter Question

[NH_Bulldog]

While winterizing, I came across a somewhat odd situation and was wondering if anyone had a similar experience or had any insight.

I have a WFCO WF-9855-AD converter. When I changed out the single FLA battery from the dealer for dual LiFePO4 batteries this spring, I checked the converter and the light changed from green to blue to indicate that it was on the lithium charging profile. I hadn't looked at it since, only confirming through my SmartShunt and Solar Charge Controller that the battery was charged to 100%. So last weekend, I opened the compartment under the dinette where my converter is located to drop in a bag of FreshCab, and saw that the converter light was green. I looked it up and the manual said it was supposed to recognize the battery chemistry and stay with what it sensed unless and until the battery type was changed. So as a test, I turned the solar disconnect to the off position and unplugged from shore power and left it that way until this afternoon. The battery SOC got down to about 68%, so I plugged it back in and turned the solar back on. The converter went into Bulk charging mode and brought the batteries back up to full charge, but the light is still green, not blue.

Any thoughts on why the converter might have reverted back to FLA from lithium and is not switching back? Could my solar be interfering?

 

[JRTJH]

WFCO has a great customer service/tech service hotline. I'd give them a call and discuss the issue. It "could be" (remote chance) that you have a bad converter, but I'd suspect it has more to do with the way the solar system is wired to the battery charging circuit... The converter "detects" the battery voltage on the charge line to determine the battery type/chemistry. If the solar system is "also on the line adding to the voltage amplitude" then the detector in the WFCO may be "listening to both the battery system and the solar system" and getting confused on the battery type because of the solar system's influence....

The same thing happens to a conventional converter when someone connects a "free standing battery charger" to the battery terminals... The converter "looks for voltage level from the battery" to determine charge state and appropriate mode: Absorption, Bulk and Float. If someone connects a 13.6VDC charger to the battery terminals, that charger "effectively shuts down the WFCO" and puts it into Float mode.

It may be the same situation with your AD monitoring the voltage on the charge line to "detect battery type". If the solar charging system "mimics" the FLA profile, it may be "fooling the WFCO into believing the system is connected to a FLA battery"....

 

[Stircrazy]

While winterizing, I came across a somewhat odd situation and was wondering if anyone had a similar experience or had any insight.

I have a WFCO WF-9855-AD converter. When I changed out the single FLA battery from the dealer for dual LiFePO4 batteries this spring, I checked the converter and the light changed from green to blue to indicate that it was on the lithium charging profile. I hadn't looked at it since, only confirming through my SmartShunt and Solar Charge Controller that the battery was charged to 100%. So last weekend, I opened the compartment under the dinette where my converter is located to drop in a bag of FreshCab, and saw that the converter light was green. I looked it up and the manual said it was supposed to recognize the battery chemistry and stay with what it sensed unless and until the battery type was changed. So as a test, I turned the solar disconnect to the off position and unplugged from shore power and left it that way until this afternoon. The battery SOC got down to about 68%, so I plugged it back in and turned the solar back on. The converter went into Bulk charging mode and brought the batteries back up to full charge, but the light is still green, not blue.

Any thoughts on why the converter might have reverted back to FLA from lithium and is not switching back? Could my solar be interfering?

I have seen a lot of people having issues with auto detecting converters on other boards, and have had to have them sent in for firmware updats and/or replace them. Personally I don't like WFCO and they get removed from the unit and are replaced with Progressive dynamics before the new rv leaves the lot, but thats just my preference. I then use the old wfco converters to run things like my hoist in the shop and such.

 

[SargeW]

I had that same problem when my Passport was new. Here is a detailed thread I made with some pics that handled the problem.

https://www.keystoneforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55756&highlight=Sarge

 

[NH_Bulldog]

Thanks Sarge, I have been busy and have not dug into this further yet. My converter is pretty easy to access so I will have to look it over for the firmware version. My camper was a new build in March so I would “hope” it is a current version!

Edit: I went back to some pictures I had taken when I installed my EMS and saw that the sticker on the converter housing says V1.19 Firmware. I emailed WFCO this morning and will give them a couple of days to respond before calling. Now would be the time to send it back if I needed to since it is parked for the winter.

 

[NH_Bulldog]

Progress update: I emailed WFCO Tech Support this morning but have not heard back yet. In the meantime, I have been uplugged since Saturday and running off solar exclusively. I was down to 87% state of charge this afternoon, so I shut off the solar and plugged in the camper. I quickly shot up to 98% at 14.26v so it seems that the converter is auto-detecting as it should. I am left to conclude that it is what John alluded to, that the solar is impacting the ability of the converter to auto-detect correctly.

I will see what WFCO has to say and if my firmware is obsolete and needs to be updated (which requires me sending it back to them), I will probably just have them make it Lithium-only so the solar won't be an issue again.

 

[NH_Bulldog]

I received a reply from WFCO Technical. They advised that my Firmware V1.19 was correct and has proven to work great with lithium batteries and auto detect. They did say that the SolarFlex system will fight for charging dominance with the converter and can allow the converter to not detect the batteries correctly, and advised to keep the solar disconnected if I wanted to ensure the converter stayed on the lithium charging profile (not exactly what I wanted to hear). Lastly, they said that if the distance between the batteries and the converter was too far, there could be voltage drop that would make the auto detect not function correctly.

I have done a bunch of research and it seems that the solar charging “interference” with auto detect is a known and pretty common issue. I think at this point I might just look at a replacement lithium-only converter and keep the WFCO as a spare.

 

[Stircrazy]

I have done a bunch of research and it seems that the solar charging “interference” with auto detect is a known and pretty common issue. I think at this point I might just look at a replacement lithium-only converter and keep the WFCO as a spare.

you can use the WFCO in the shop like I do, I have the WFCO converter that comes out of my rv's when I buy them hooked up to a battery on the shelf and then use that set up to power my 12V winch that I use to pull the 5th wheel hitch out of the turn and put it in, or anything else heavy I have in the back of my truck. they work good for that..

 

[NH_Bulldog]

you can use the WFCO in the shop like I do, I have the WFCO converter that comes out of my rv's when I buy them hooked up to a battery on the shelf and then use that set up to power my 12V winch that I use to pull the 5th wheel hitch out of the turn and put it in, or anything else heavy I have in the back of my truck. they work good for that..

What do you replace the WFCO with? I am looking for something preferably lithium-only or one with an actual switch instead of relying on auto-detect

 

[Stircrazy]

What do you replace the WFCO with? I am looking for something preferably lithium-only or one with an actual switch instead of relying on auto-detect

normally PD, I haven't found the perfect Li compatible though.. well I did but it is a renogy product and an all in one inverter/charger and only 2000 watts. I do need to start digging more and look for the 5th wheel upgrade. what the renogy does on a custom Li setting is let you put the max and min voltages in, so it will charge untill it hits your "max" voltage, then shut off the charge and run off the battery for 12V untill it hits your "min" vltage and start charging again.

so I am buying this one to upgrade the truck camper and can see exactly how well it works for a primarly boon docking situation where solar is involved also. I should be able to set it to 100% the day before we go camping so I can get a ballance on the battery in, then set it to say 90% max and 15% min while I am camping and let the solar take care of everthing as it won't have shore power anyways..

at home though I could set it for 80% max and 50% min and turn the solar off and not have to worry about floating the batteries, then just change it back to 100% the day before I go camping again. its all adjustable with bluetooth.. but now if it actualy works like that, we will see.

 

[Bill-2020]

What do you replace the WFCO with? I am looking for something preferably lithium-only or one with an actual switch instead of relying on auto-detect

I had a similar issue in our 23MLE, last year I changed to the Progressive Dynamics lithium only and kept the WFCO as a backup. My firmware was older but I didn’t want to have to rely on it to auto detect.

 

[Stircrazy]

What do you replace the WFCO with? I am looking for something preferably lithium-only or one with an actual switch instead of relying on auto-detect

guess I never did answer this, I like the PD9300 series, it gives you flooded battery, agm or Lithium modes, also a 4th mode which is a constant 13.6V output. so if I had this one with LFP batteries I would probably set it in the constant 13.6V output. but, keep the old one if you sell it take your PD with you and put the WFCO back in

 

[NH_Bulldog]

Thanks, I think I have settled on the PD9360V. I like that as noted it can be set to three charging profiles plus the constant 13.6v so it is very versatile. I will watch prices and pick one up when the time is right.

Jeff Bezos must be trying for a money grab because before the election it was in my cart at $260 and this morning the price went up to over $305. The same thing happened with most everything else in my cart that I had saved for a later date. Capitalism is alive and well after all.

 

[Bill-2020]

Doesn’t seem too bad of a price. The PD9160ALV I bought a year ago on Amazon was $260 and change. It’s lithium only. But Amazon’s prices fluctuate a lot, however that algorithm is coded.

 

[Customer]

Thanks, I think I have settled on the PD9360V. I like that as noted it can be set to three charging profiles plus the constant 13.6v so it is very versatile...

This summer I removed the four FLA on the tongue and installed a pair of LifePO4 in the pass-thru. I mounted an Iota DLS-90 with the lithium IQ4 above the batteries. That Iota on a dedicated 20a receptacle puts approximately 100 amps into the new batteries. I'm very pleased with it and with every Iota I've had previously. It will really cut down on the generator time compared to the pathetic WFCO.

 

[NH_Bulldog]

So you used the IQ-LIFEPO not the IQ4 correct?