AC/DC Slide Out Question

[DarkElf]

Hello all.

Because I am not as knowledgeable as most of you long-timers I never really have much to say, but I lurk a lot and learn a lot.

Having said that ... I have a question/problem:

We just got home from a 3 week vacation with our 2015 Grand Design Solitude 320X.
When we were preparing for the return trip home I discovered our slide outs and jacks work not work despite the fact our RV was on shore power the entire 3 weeks.
I found that the battery was dead. I had to get a jump to get the slide outs in and the jacks up.

From what little I know, this sounds like my power converter is not charging the battery. Do you think is sounds likely?

Also, while getting the help from the campground employees they told me that even id the battery is dead - which it was - the slide outs should still operate as long as I am hooked up to shore power. Is this true?

I purchased this Solitude brand new and for as long as we have used it, the slide outs have never worked if the battery was not installed or charged. I always assumed that this was normal, no?

Any feedback from you pros would be greatly appreciated.

 

[DarkElf]

Forgot to mention that my jacks are Lippert 3.0. Not sure about the slide outs.

 

[NH_Bulldog]

In a fully functioning system, a good battery will supply primary power to heavy load items like slides and jacks with the converter backing up and recharging the batteries. In a pinch, the converter can power those items, but it really stresses it.

HOWEVER, with a dead converter, your batteries will not charge and your converter will not generate any 12v power to act as a backup.

So in short, your converter is dead.

 

[DarkElf]

As I was thinking.
Thanks NH Bulldog.

Hey, we're from NH too. We spent the last three weeks in Center Ossipee.

 

[NH_Bulldog]

Small world!

 

[chuckster57]

In a fully functioning system, a good battery will supply primary power to heavy load items like slides and jacks with the converter backing up and recharging the batteries. In a pinch, the converter can power those items, but it really stresses it.

HOWEVER, with a dead converter, your batteries will not charge and your converter will not generate any 12v power to act as a backup.

So in short, your converter is dead.

I would check the reverse polarity fuses on the back of the converter first.

 

[wiredgeorge]

At least you called members "long-timers" as opposed to geezers ;-)

Could be a few things to check. 1. Make sure your battery disconnect is not disconnected. If you go onto eBay RV parts you will see there are MANY types and some look like switches and some not so much. If it was off, the battery will end up discharging over a couple weeks due a couple of small drains when not charging.

2. Battery(s) bad. Take them and get them load tested at an auto parts store but before doing so. disconnect the cables while on sore power and check the cables for voltage. A healthy converter will see over 13VDC and if you so less or nothing then...

3. If my dim memory serves, there is a fuse on the power panel that is perhaps red that is sort of the main DC fuse. It might be bad; check continuity of the element using a multimeter. This type fuse can sometimes be hard to see a bad conductive element.

 

[DarkElf]

I would check the reverse polarity fuses on the back of the converter first.

Not a clue what you mean Chuckster but I am sure I'll figure it out when I find the converter and inspect it.
Thanks.

 

[chuckster57]

Your Solitude has a deck mount converter, it should be behind the rear wall of the front pass through. I did 5 years at a grand design dealer.

 

[DarkElf]

At least you called members "long-timers" as opposed to geezers ;-)

Could be a few things to check. 1. Make sure your battery disconnect is not disconnected. If you go onto eBay RV parts you will see there are MANY types and some look like switches and some not so much. If it was off, the battery will end up discharging over a couple weeks due a couple of small drains when not charging.

2. Battery(s) bad. Take them and get them load tested at an auto parts store but before doing so. disconnect the cables while on sore power and check the cables for voltage. A healthy converter will see over 13VDC and if you so less or nothing then...

3. If my dim memory serves, there is a fuse on the power panel that is perhaps red that is sort of the main DC fuse. It might be bad; check continuity of the element using a multimeter. This type fuse can sometimes be hard to see a bad conductive element.

Thanks WiredGeorge.

Item 1: Check. It is on.

Item 2: Check. Brand new.

Item 3: Great tip! I shall have to look into that.

Thanks WiredGeorge!

 

[DarkElf]

Your Solitude has a deck mount converter, it should be behind the rear wall of the front pass through. I did 5 years at a grand design dealer.

NICE! Thanks for that information Chuckster! I thought I remembered seeing it there abouts when I had that wall off once.

Thanks again.

 

[fjr vfr]

The AC and DC circuits are separate circuits. The converter includes a battery charger that charges the battery only. It does not have power for the 12v circuits.
Think like if you had a battery charger connected to your truck or car battery. There would not be enough power from the charger to crank the motor or burn the headlights.
You should start by connecting to shore power, even 15 or 20 amp from the house. That should be enough to run the battery charger. Then put a volt meter on your batteries and you should see 13.5-14,5 volts. If you don't it is not charging the batteries. If you do, you need new batteries.

 

[NH_Bulldog]

The converter includes a battery charger that charges the battery only. It does not have power for the 12v circuits.

Are you sure about that? I am sorry, but that is false.

 

[chuckster57]

Converter will operate 12V items without a battery installed.

 

[fjr vfr]

When I went off grid solar on my trailer I installed an ATS in back of the converter. I found a battery charger being fed from the 120v side of the converter and then connected to the 12v lug feeding to the batteries on the dc panel. Since I am charging my lithium battery bank from 1000 watts of solar, I just disconnected the battery charger so it is out of the circuit. I would have had to power it from the shore power side of the ATS otherwise it would have created a loop from my inverter...not good. I could have run an inline fuse to the shore side so that wouldn't happen, but I wanted to give it a try just using my solar to keep the batteries charged. That was a few years ago and so far no dead batteries.
Anyway I guess the battery charged could power some lights, but I saw no other connections from the ac side to power anything dc other than the battery charger. So how much power comes from the battery charger...5 maybe 10 amps?
My Laredo is a pretty basic unit. Maybe some of the bigger more expensive units have different converters with more capabilities?

 

[jasin1]

Thanks WiredGeorge.

Item 1: Check. It is on.

Item 2: Check. Brand new.

Item 3: Great tip! I shall have to look into that.

Thanks WiredGeorge!

you said the battery is brand new? if you or someone else that installed it accidentally reversed the battery wires it could have blown the reverse polarity fuses as others mentioned and your brand new battery would not charge and would eventually go dead…that battery is likely damaged now from low voltage..shouldn’t be too hard to troubleshoot

 

[chuckster57]

When I went off grid solar on my trailer I installed an ATS in back of the converter. I found a battery charger being fed from the 120v side of the converter and then connected to the 12v lug feeding to the batteries on the dc panel. Since I am charging my lithium battery bank from 1000 watts of solar, I just disconnected the battery charger so it is out of the circuit. I would have had to power it from the shore power side of the ATS otherwise it would have created a loop from my inverter...not good. I could have run an inline fuse to the shore side so that wouldn't happen, but I wanted to give it a try just using my solar to keep the batteries charged. That was a few years ago and so far no dead batteries.
Anyway I guess the battery charged could power some lights, but I saw no other connections from the ac side to power anything dc other than the battery charger. So how much power comes from the battery charger...5 maybe 10 amps?
My Laredo is a pretty basic unit. Maybe some of the bigger more expensive units have different converters with more capabilities?

When plugged into shore power the converter can produce 35 amps or better depending on brand/model.

 

[NH_Bulldog]

Case in point; when we picked up our Cougar 5th wheel this spring it was plugged in at the dealer. We ran through all the systems, the 12v refrigerator was running, the lights and water pump worked, we operated the slides, retracted and extended the jacks. After they showed me the front compartment with the batteries and disconnects, we closed and locked the compartment and then hooked up my truck and off we went. Got to our overnight spot on the way home, and nothing worked, not even lights. I plugged into shore power and was able to get the landing gear down, truck disconnected, auto-leveled, slides out and awning out. Then I poked around in the front compartment and found the battery disconnect was off. Just to test it after I turned it on, I unplugged shore power and everything 12v still worked. So the converter most definitely provides power to the 12v systems and with sufficient energy to run everything 12v, including the refrigerator, slides, awning, leveling jacks, etc.

I don't recommend relying on it all the time, but when plugged into shore power, the converter does provide enough 12v power to run the camper even if there is no battery or the disconnect was in the off position.

 

[fjr vfr]

If you are getting 35 amps from your charger as Chuckster57 says then I guess it would work but as you say I wouldn’t recommend it all the time.
I don’t think my charger when it was connected would have been able to drive the slide in and out.
When I get the chance later I’ll dig up the specs on mine. I don’t think any of them were meant to be used without a battery connected but obviously yours worked at least temporarily.

 

[NH_Bulldog]

I just looked up the specs on mine (WFCO 9855-AD) which outputs 55A max. In the manual, it states the following:

POWER MODE
The converter normally provides a constant target output voltage of 13.6 VDC (nominal) to power all the branch circuits. However, it is current-limited, and if the output (load) current reaches its maximum, the output voltage will drop as necessary to hold the converter’s maximum output current level (the Amperage rating) without exceeding it.

This mode is designed with 1 purpose in mind. This purpose is to provide a safe operating voltage for all loads in the RV. This is accomplished by reducing (from charge mode) the output voltage to 13.6 VDC and remaining at this voltage until the power is cycled to the converter.

The power mode stage is the default or normal mode of operation, which has no timer associated with it. In this mode an output of 13.6 VDC is provided to the DC circuits in the RV. This voltage has a long-term history as the acceptable voltage for all loads in the RV, and should not place undue stress (nor reduce the longevity) of the lights and appliances in the RV. This is not to say that all loads will have an issue with a constant higher voltage; however, some loads may have an issue. Please refer to the individual manufacturer’s specifications for acceptable operating voltage range of the connected load.

Again, it is not ideal, and I wish I had known that my battery disconnect was off when I picked up my camper, but it is good to know it is an "option" in a pinch.