2021 Keystone Cougar Power Issues

[chastainfam]

We have recently had some odd issues with our power. We hook shore power up and turn on the main power switch in the camper to find we have 12V but the AC won’t run. We have checked all the breakers and fuses but they all look good. We shut everything back down and bring it back up then 20 minutes later, everything comes on. We replaced the inverter a couple of years ago as it over heated on one trip. Does this sound like a converter issue? Our surge protector shows the shore power is working appropriately so it’s confusing as to why the camper isn’t getting it. Thoughts?

 

[NH_Bulldog]

First, the converter runs on shore power, it doesn’t produce it (it produces 12v DC current to charge the batteries and that’s it).

What is “the main power switch” you are referring to? I am not aware of any “switch” for shore power. You plug it in and there is power, that’s all there is to it.

How is your surge protector telling you that power is “okay”? Is it just a simple green LED light? A surge protector is just that and nothing more. An EMS will actually analyze incoming power and if it senses a dangerous issue will not allow power to flow into the camper. All EMS’ also have a built-in delay to allow time for it to analyze. That delay can be anywhere from 15 seconds to several minutes.

Please clarify what “switch” you are talking about and also whether you have a surge protector or EMS. Also, you mentioned an inverter? Who installed it and when, what brand, model and size inverter and what does the inverter typically power when not connected to shore power?

 

[flybouy]

I'm guessing the switch you are referring to to is the main breaker either on the power pedestal outside or the main breaker inside. Also guess you meant converter when you wrote inverter.

Couple of questions that will help us help you.
Year and full model name and number of your trailer
Make and model number of the "surge protector" and is it plug in or hardwired.
50 amping or 30 amp shore power.
Have you actually timed it to take 20 min.? That's an extraordinarily long delay.

My initial thought would be to remove the "surge protector" if it's a plug in style and see if that eliminates the issue.

 

[Eman85]

An inverter is used to convert 12v DC to 120v AC. A converter is used for a trailer's shore power to convert it to 12v to power the 12v lights and accessories and recharge the trailer's battery.
Do you have a multi meter and know how to use it on AC power?

 

[Lee-KEY]

Hi,

Did any other 120v AC receptacles work? Like the microwave, etc.

 

[chastainfam]

Ok, so you are correct and I know nothing about the electricity. I’m simply trying to get some guidance. We have an

EMS-PT50X Portable RV 50-Amp EMS with Surge Protection……​

Which I always wait to plug anything into until it reads correctly. My husband always says we have to flip the battery disconnect first before we plug in the camper, which i mistakenly called the main power switch. He was advised to do that each time versus simply plugging in to shore power. If we are doing something wrong, please advise.

When we plugged it in like we normally do, the lights came on and the refrigerator was running but was honestly probably still pulling from the battery. The AC, microwave or fireplace would not work.

Two years ago, my husband did replace the inverter because we only had battery power and were not getting any shore power. Now, we are experiencing more electrical issues and I’m not sure what to do.

We have not tried a meter yet. We did try the breaker and checked the fuses which all look fine. I have not actually timed it…. My husband said it was 20 mins in his angst so that is what I reiterated to you.

 

[sourdough]

I am unclear; do you have AC power at the moment or did it not come on, re energized everything and then it came on and it's working or ??

The PT50X is an EMS. I've never owned one and don't know how its display reads but you said it shows shore power as good? None of the things that operate on AC will work (no AC)? You stated "inverter" again - do you actually have one or is it the "converter"? What brand and model of trailer - it apparently has 50A power? How are you connected to shore power - 50A RV outlet, adapters or ?? Is this an RV park, home or ?

 

[chastainfam]

We have a 2021 Keystone Cougar 1/2 ton 26RKE. Our first time out this year, the electric fireplace wouldn’t come on. We were able to function without it for that trip. The second time out, our air conditioning wouldn’t work but the lights would. We were using my brother in laws shore power so we had his basic surge protector with dog bone to convert 30A to 50A. We unplugged the power, checked breakers and fuses, then plugged it all back in and everything came on including the electrical fireplace. The third trip, we had problems with our auto leveling system and jacks. After we went into manual mode, we leveled and plugged in to shore power using our EMS device which read normally. The air conditioning/fan wouldn’t work but we had lights. We unplugged from shore, flipped breakers and plugged back in. After a little while, everything came back up and worked for the 5 days we were out. We are concerned something is wrong. My husband says he doesn’t believe it’s the inverter because we replaced it two years ago and everything has worked until this year. So, the issues keep affecting different places which leads me to believe it could be a breaker or the converter? Or it could be multiple things. I read somewhere that they have both an inverter and a converter.

 

[sourdough]

Briefly; your RV uses 2 different types of "power" or electricity (I sometimes use them interchangeably) - 120vac from the electrical shore connection and 12vdc which originates with your battery(s). Two complete separate systems that operate independently of each other with the exception of the CONverter (changes 120vac from shore power to 12vdc) that uses the 120vac (shore power) feed to then convert and charge your batteries. The converter can also run your 12vdc functions in a limited fashion if the batteries were bad...but it can ruin it.

Your air conditioning, electrical outlets, electric fireplace, microwave, ceiling fan (if equipped) all run on A/C shore power. Your furnace, lights, leveling jacks along control circuits for thermostat relays, furnace, etc. run off 12vdc so in that sense they are interdependent.

You mention converting from 50A to 30A at your brother in law's; realize there is a huge difference between 50A vs 30A. Without going into detail the 50A can pull over 3 times the power that a 30A can. Sounds like the BIL has a 30A connection which a 50A trailer can trip without a problem. In the case of the BIL it could have been from trying to use too much power.

Also, your EMS (PTX-50) will have some sort of delay when coming back on after cutting power to the trailer for some anomaly...maybe that is something you've experienced.

Lots of bits and pieces in the electrical system of an RV. Knowing how it works, what works what, what they operate on and how they affect each other is essential in having a trouble free camping experience. As well, owning a (or many) VOMs (multimeter) and know how to use it is, IMO, a necessity. They will literally let you "see" electricity and various electrical attributes vs guessing.

I can find nothing that indicates you have an inverter. At the time your trailer was built they would typically be installed on an RV with a residential fridge but I can't find that it has one.

 

[flybouy]

My husband always says we have to flip the battery disconnect first before we plug in the camper, which i mistakenly called the main power switch. He was advised to do that each time versus simply plugging in to shore power. If we are doing something wrong, please advise.

I think your husband may be confused on this. You should always confirm that the breaker for the shore power cord (the big 50 Amp 120 vac) is turned off before plugging it in or removing it. The reason for this is that if the socket is energized then it will arc because the camper is under load from the converter and any other 120 vac appliance left on. Think about plugging in your vacuum cleaner with the switch turned on. It will spark and cause pitting which Wil cause problems in the future.

I'm not aware of any reason to change the 12vdc battery switch when connecting to 120 vac shore power. So unless the previous owner did something funky with the inverter circuit that requires it.

The EMS has a built in time delay for 1 main reason. First, if the power goes off and the a/c is running it will abruptly stop. This creates a lot of "head pressure" which means the pressure in the compressor rises to the point that it can cause damage/failure to the a/c unit if the electricity goes off then comes back on immediately. Think of a thunderstorm when the lights "flicker" on and off. That delay gives the pressure in the refrigerant lines to equalize and prevent damage on start up.

So I still recommend leaving that EMS out of the circuit and see if the issue persists or if it follows the EMS.

 

[LHaven]

We have a 2021 Keystone Cougar 1/2 ton 26RKE. Our first time out this year, the electric fireplace wouldn’t come on. We were able to function without it for that trip. The second time out, our air conditioning wouldn’t work but the lights would. We were using my brother in laws shore power so we had his basic surge protector with dog bone to convert 30A to 50A. We unplugged the power, checked breakers and fuses, then plugged it all back in and everything came on including the electrical fireplace. The third trip, we had problems with our auto leveling system and jacks. After we went into manual mode, we leveled and plugged in to shore power using our EMS device which read normally. The air conditioning/fan wouldn’t work but we had lights.

This doesn't exactly square with the symptoms you describe, but I have seen other postings from owners complaining that their electric fireplace didn't work sometimes, and their air conditioner didn't work other times. It turned out in these cases that the culprit was a switch installed in the very rear of a cabinet that would select between the electric fireplace and the air conditioner, to make it impossible to turn on both at the same time. They were both wired on the same circuit, and the circuit breaker would only handle one at a time without overloading. Could this possibly be your problem?

 

[chastainfam]

This doesn't exactly square with the symptoms you describe, but I have seen other postings from owners complaining that their electric fireplace didn't work sometimes, and their air conditioner didn't work other times. It turned out in these cases that the culprit was a switch installed in the very rear of a cabinet that would select between the electric fireplace and the air conditioner, to make it impossible to turn on both at the same time. They were both wired on the same circuit, and the circuit breaker would only handle one at a time without overloading. Could this possibly be your problem?

We don’t try to run both at the same time. I’m going to try to troubleshoot more when we get some time while at home to see if I can isolate anything. I honestly wasn’t always around to watch everything and he got frustrated. I started the thread to learn more. I appreciate all the feedback and guidance!

 

[LHaven]

We don’t try to run both at the same time. I’m going to try to troubleshoot more when we get some time while at home to see if I can isolate anything. I honestly wasn’t always around to watch everything and he got frustrated. I started the thread to learn more. I appreciate all the feedback and guidance!

Well, nobody with any sense tries to run those two items at the same time, they put the switch in to prevent accidental activations. But if you store things in that cabinet that bump the switch, you'll go bats wondering why one of them stopped working that was working yesterday.

 

[chastainfam]

Very true! I’ve never seen a switch like what you are describing. We bought the camper new in October 2020 so there were no previous owners.

 

[chastainfam]

Briefly; your RV uses 2 different types of "power" or electricity (I sometimes use them interchangeably) - 120vac from the electrical shore connection and 12vdc which originates with your battery(s). Two complete separate systems that operate independently of each other with the exception of the CONverter (changes 120vac from shore power to 12vdc) that uses the 120vac (shore power) feed to then convert and charge your batteries. The converter can also run your 12vdc functions in a limited fashion if the batteries were bad...but it can ruin it.

Your air conditioning, electrical outlets, electric fireplace, microwave, ceiling fan (if equipped) all run on A/C shore power. Your furnace, lights, leveling jacks along control circuits for thermostat relays, furnace, etc. run off 12vdc so in that sense they are interdependent.

You mention converting from 50A to 30A at your brother in law's; realize there is a huge difference between 50A vs 30A. Without going into detail the 50A can pull over 3 times the power that a 30A can. Sounds like the BIL has a 30A connection which a 50A trailer can trip without a problem. In the case of the BIL it could have been from trying to use too much power.

Also, your EMS (PTX-50) will have some sort of delay when coming back on after cutting power to the trailer for some anomaly...maybe that is something you've experienced.

Lots of bits and pieces in the electrical system of an RV. Knowing how it works, what works what, what they operate on and how they affect each other is essential in having a trouble free camping experience. As well, owning a (or many) VOMs (multimeter) and know how to use it is, IMO, a necessity. They will literally let you "see" electricity and various electrical attributes vs guessing.

I can find nothing that indicates you have an inverter. At the time your trailer was built they would typically be installed on an RV with a residential fridge but I can't find that it has one.

This is very helpful! We try to hook up to 50A whenever possible. We were told by the dealer when we bought the camper that unless we installed a second air conditioner which we don’t have, we should be able to run everything off a 30A service. Is this not correct?

 

[LHaven]

As long as your dogbone (50/30 converter cable) is wired intelligently, yes.

 

[flybouy]

This is very helpful! We try to hook up to 50A whenever possible. We were told by the dealer when we bought the camper that unless we installed a second air conditioner which we don’t have, we should be able to run everything off a 30A service. Is this not correct?

You can run everything but not at the same time. Typically running the a/c, the converter charging the battery(s) and other 12vdc appliances like the bathroom fan, the range hood light & fan, etc., along with the water heater if 120 vac fridge on 120 vac if so equipped and then turning on the microwave will result an a click from the breaker and everything that's 120 vac going silent.

 

[JRTJH]

This is very helpful! We try to hook up to 50A whenever possible. We were told by the dealer when we bought the camper that unless we installed a second air conditioner which we don’t have, we should be able to run everything off a 30A service. Is this not correct?

The answer to that is yes and no. YES, you can run everything off a 30 amp service... But, NO you can not run everything at the same time... As an example, if you try to run the 1100 watt water heater element, the 400 watt refrigerator AND the 1500 watt air conditioner at the same time, that adds up to 1100+400+1500 watts which is 3000 watts. Easy enough to support with a 3600 watt (30 amp) connection. BUT, turn on the microwave (1100+ watts) or plug in a toaster (1200 watts)or electric coffee maker (1400 watts) and you'll overload the 30 amp capacity and trip the circuit breaker on the 30 amp plug wiring....

So, YES and NO (at the same time).... Simply put, if you're connected to a 30 amp shore power plug, you will need to "load manage your trailer consumption"...

That said, on a 50 amp service, you have two legs of 6000 watts for a total capacity of 12000 watts. You can, on a 50 amp circuit, run all of the above and still have more left over than you're using.....

 

[sourdough]

This is very helpful! We try to hook up to 50A whenever possible. We were told by the dealer when we bought the camper that unless we installed a second air conditioner which we don’t have, we should be able to run everything off a 30A service. Is this not correct?

Looks like this has been answered but I'll reiterate I suppose. When RVs were an exception and a true luxury back when 1 A/C was considered in that luxury. For that they could wire the trailers with 30A service and it did just fine. Of course, "back then" there were no electric fireplaces, microwaves etc. Heck, I think we finally got a TV in a trailer somewhere in the late 90s. Nowadays 2 A/Cs is becoming the norm and you need 50A service for them along with all the "necessities" that used to be luxuries. When cutting back to a 30A service when it came with 50A service not a lot changes except the amount of "power" you have to use. The 50A service has TWO hot legs coming in vs ONE in a 30A service. Each leg of the 50A service then splits various appliances, outlets etc. between the legs to even the load and it allows for a much larger range of usage inside. With a 30A service that dogbone at the power ped takes the ONE hot lead of the 30A service and splits it between TWO wires going into the trailer so that each of those legs still get power....but at a greatly reduced capacity because it is splitting that smaller amount of amperage across TWO leads when in a 30A trailer there is only one hot leg inside the trailer. In that scenario you have lots of "things", outlets etc. that are wired to run on the 50A circuit but they all funnel back to that ped that is trying to deliver that power on one wire. It's easy to overload and trip the breaker. I always had to just "learn" what would run together and what was going to trip the breaker...dense I suppose. Anyway, just a somewhat brief explanation of what's going on when you move to a smaller service.

 

[chastainfam]

We haven’t been tripping any breakers so that is good.