Trailer tires

[Papsmagee]

The wife and I are making a small upgrade from a 2019 179QBWE to a 2022 202QB and have a question about the tires that come standard. My understanding is that they are highway tires but are weak in tread ply, especially on the side walls.

We go off road from time to time and gravel roads often. Loving boon docking and getting away, I increased wheel size to 15" and tire plies to 10/8. I'm curious to know what others think about doing this.

Thanks.

Papsmagee

[dutchmensport]

Nothing wrong with going to a sturdier tire. I'm running 14 ply on my Montana and I DON'T do off road camping.

[Papsmagee]

Thanks. Can you tell me brand? And what size wheel?

[bsmith0404]

As long as you have the clearance it’s fine to upgrade to a larger diameter tire. If you have clearance issues, you can adjust the tire diameter, but still go up on wheel size, for example a 235/75R15 might be close to the same diameter as a 235/85R14. There are calculators out there to compare tire sizes, just google it. Keep in mind that a 1” taller tire is only a 1/2” taller on top. I think most people on here have probably upgraded to a heavier tire at one point or another. My rule of thumb was always 1 load range above stock. Going to heavy will cause the trailer to bounce more. Your tires are part of your suspension, they need to flex some. Personally, I run Hartland ST tires from Discount. Have had great experience with them. Have them on all my trailers.

[Papsmagee]

Thanks for the help. I'll look into the Hartland tires. I want to be comfortable with whatever ones I have on when going off road.

Papsmagee

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Papsmagee

The wife and I are making a small upgrade from a 2019 179QBWE to a 2022 202QB and have a question about the tires that come standard. My understanding is that they are highway tires but are weak in tread ply, especially on the side walls.

We go off road from time to time and gravel roads often. Loving boon docking and getting away, I increased wheel size to 15" and tire plies to 10/8. I'm curious to know what others think about doing this.

Thanks.

Papsmagee

If you haven't yet made the "small upgrade to the 202QB" think it through before buying it and trying to upgrade to 15" wheels/tires on that trailer.

Yes, you can "physically install 15" wheels" but the 3500 pound axle that's on the trailer comes with 10" brakes/hubs with 5 lug rims. The 5 lug rims will limit you to 5 lug wheels and the "highest rated 15" 5 lug rims" are usually rated at 2150 pounds max capacity. Installing "super heavy duty tires" on those wheels will prevent you from having "tire problems" but if you take that trailer "off roading" or tow on rutty gravel roads, even if the tires survive, you're going to risk damage to the wheels that simply aren't strong enogh for that kind of use.

When you're limited to "5 lug wheels" on a 3500 pound axle, the maximum upgrade is limited to 205 75R14 LRD tires and increasing to 15" wheels/tires is still limited by the 10" hubs....

Do some "in depth research" before just "adding bigger tires and wheels" to a 5 lug 10" hub axle.....

[KJLarson]

Now that you have made the decision to upgrade your tires/axles it's time to check a few other issues involved in selecting the correct tire. Follow the advice of JRTJH, it is right on target for the wheel size vs axle rating.

We have a 2020 Keystone Kodiak 201QB and the tires from the factory were designed to get the trailer on/off the transport truck, not highway driving. All tires have a speed rating and the ones the factory installs usually have a max speed of 40-50 mph. The speed rating is printed on the sidewall as a letter (A-Z, slowest to fastest), you want a speed rating of "L" minimum which is 75mph.

Another issue is the correct inflation pressure which is NOT the pressure printed on the sidewall; that is the max pressure the tire is designed to hold without failing. As an example, we upgraded to Goodyear Endurance tires (speed rating "N" which is 78mph) and the correct inflation pressure per Goodyear for our trailer, 5300 lbs loaded, is 35psi to keep the max tread width on the road. What??? The correct tire pressure is based upon the weight on each tire; Goodyear and most other tire manufacturers publish a chart showing the correct psi per tire based upon weight.

Also, insure that the letters before the tire size of "ST" (special trailer) which indicates the tire is designed for trailers; LT (light truck) and P (passenger) are not constructed for the stresses placed on trailer tires, especially multi-axle trailers. Multi-axle trailers place a lot of sideways stress on the tires and they need stronger sidewalls to handle that stress.

We exclusively (99%/time) boondock so are on dirt/gravel roads all the time, the Goodyear tires have performed very well and we are very satisfied with them. Good luck with getting the correct tires and have fun out there.

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by KJLarson

Now that you have made the decision to upgrade your tires/axles it's time to check a few other issues involved in selecting the correct tire. Follow the advice of JRTJH, it is right on target for the wheel size vs axle rating.

We have a 2020 Keystone Kodiak 201QB and the tires from the factory were designed to get the trailer on/off the transport truck, not highway driving. All tires have a speed rating and the ones the factory installs usually have a max speed of 40-50 mph. The speed rating is printed on the sidewall as a letter (A-Z, slowest to fastest), you want a speed rating of "L" minimum which is 75mph.

Another issue is the correct inflation pressure which is NOT the pressure printed on the sidewall; that is the max pressure the tire is designed to hold without failing. As an example, we upgraded to Goodyear Endurance tires (speed rating "N" which is 78mph) and the correct inflation pressure per Goodyear for our trailer, 5300 lbs loaded, is 35psi to keep the max tread width on the road. What??? The correct tire pressure is based upon the weight on each tire; Goodyear and most other tire manufacturers publish a chart showing the correct psi per tire based upon weight.

Also, insure that the letters before the tire size of "ST" (special trailer) which indicates the tire is designed for trailers; LT (light truck) and P (passenger) are not constructed for the stresses placed on trailer tires, especially multi-axle trailers. Multi-axle trailers place a lot of sideways stress on the tires and they need stronger sidewalls to handle that stress.

We exclusively (99%/time) boondock so are on dirt/gravel roads all the time, the Goodyear tires have performed very well and we are very satisfied with them. Good luck with getting the correct tires and have fun out there.

I seriously doubt your rv came loaded on a transport, most likely was towed at posted highway speeds, or more, by the delivery driver regardless of the speed rating on the tires. But yes typically the factory tires are crap.
As for inflation, if upsizing to a heavy load rated tire then lowering the pressure you've gained nothing except a lighter wallet.
IMHO inflate to the recommended pressure posted on the rv for the original tires or if upgraded to a heavier tire use the sidewall inflation.
You can weigh the rv then adjust each tire to the load it's carrying, then add a pair of shoes, a full black tank, or a cooler full of beer then you'll need to weigh again & readjust pressures. Much simpler to just air them all the same & go enjoy camping.

[Papsmagee]

Thanks to everyone for your replies. Obviously from what you've written, there's a lot to consider when choosing tires. I will do much, much more investigating. But we pick up the new trailer , Springdale 202 QB, in a week, so my main concern will be that the tires that come from the factory get me down the highway safely before I look deeper into boon docking requirements.

Thanks.

Papsmagee

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Papsmagee

Thanks to everyone for your replies. Obviously from what you've written, there's a lot to consider when choosing tires. I will do much, much more investigating. But we pick up the new trailer , Springdale 202 QB, in a week, so my main concern will be that the tires that come from the factory get me down the highway safely before I look deeper into boon docking requirements.

Thanks.

Papsmagee

This is an opinion, so take it for what it cost you:

The Springdale 202QBWE specs are:
GVWR 6500 pounds
Tongue 550 pounds
Axle weight with tongue weight deducted, 5950 on 4 tires.

If "evenly distributed" (which is almost never is) that's 1487.5 pounds per tire.

The "factory tires" are 205 75R14 LRD which are rated at 2040@65PSI per tire.

That gives you a 552.5 pound "reserve" per tire, assuming the tires are "undamaged and not previously abused by hitting curbs, running underinflated or over the speed rating... All of which you won't have any way of knowing....

So, are the tires "safe for that trailer" ??? Yes, probably, given the above qualifiers... Will any of that "guarantee you won't have a problem" ???

NOPE !!!!! And neither will changing to a "name brand tire" nor will installing "the largest available tire/wheel assemblies that will fit". Any tire has the potential to "self destruct with no notice", so you're always vulnerable to sitting on the side of the road with a blown tire on the trailer or even on the truck....

When you pick up the trailer, make sure the tires are properly inflated, keep them covered to prevent sun damage, don't overload them, don't speed with them and don't hit curbs, potholes with them... They should last you until you can decide what options are best for any upgrade.....

[sourdough]

I would highly encourage you to change the OEM tires before you go "boondocking". IMO the OEMs are the cheapest option that a manufacturer can find to put on a unit. Why are they cheaper? Labor would be one but also construction and materials. The OEMs will barely get you down the highway without a problem IF you never hit anything, go too fast, turn too sharp etc. etc. etc. Boondocking will absolutely do things to those tires they were not meant, or built, for. When removing OEM ST tires and replacing them with good brands I've sat them side by side and lifted them - the name brand dires invariably weigh considerably more. You really want a robust, thick walled tire if you are going to going off road.

[Camp CA]

Whatever tire you choose, obtain the inflation (psig) / load table select tires that exceed your trailer's gross weight (weigh it to be sure) with a good safety margin.

[Tireman9]

Some clarifications on tires from an actual tire design engineer.


The inflation number on the tire sidewall IS NOT the maximum the tire can ever tolerate. As many learn when they install a TPMS tire temperature & pressure increase as you drive. The Load number IS THE MAX load the tire should ever be subjected to and the load can only be learned by getting a scale as no one has calibrated eyeballs. The Inflation number on the tire sidewall in in fact THE MINIMUM required to support the stated MAX Load.


Tire inflation should only be set when the tire is cool and has not been driven or in direct sunlight for the previous 2 hours.


TPMS are designed to warn of a LOSS in pressure and most are only accurate to +/- 2%


Load Range letter does not tell you the number of ply in a tire. You can learn the actual number by reading the sidewall. There are different strengths of cords the tire engineer can choose from so all "1 layer" are not the same strength.


You do not get Load Capacity from the "Load Range" as it is the inflation pressure that supports the load.


RV Trailers place SIGNIFICANTLY higher stress (Interply Shear) on the belts so I recommend a MINIMUM of 15% Reserve Load capacity with 20% to 25% better if you want more than a couple years tire life.


I suggest you search this forum on Why Tires Fail. Also do a Google search on Tire Interply Shear.

[stevencina]

Originally Posted by Papsmagee

The wife and I are making a small upgrade from a 2019 179QBWE to a 2022 202QB and have a question about the tires that come standard. My understanding is that they are highway tires but are weak in tread ply, especially on the side walls.

We go off road from time to time and gravel roads often. Loving boon docking and getting away, I increased wheel size to 15" and tire plies to 10/8. I'm curious to know what others think about doing this.

Thanks.

Papsmagee

I have a 2020 cougar with low milage and original trailer king tires. I just had 3 bad blowouts within 100 miles, if you have them get rid of them, It cost me two fenders and a gas line Plus I bought 5 New Endurance tires. I should have known better these are real CHINA BOMBS>

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by stevencina

I have a 2020 cougar with low milage and original trailer king tires. I just had 3 bad blowouts within 100 miles, if you have them get rid of them, It cost me two fenders and a gas line Plus I bought 5 New Endurance tires. I should have known better these are real CHINA BOMBS>

Tires do not fail simply because they are made in "China" any more than RVs built in Indiana have more defects and problems than do the RVs made in Tennessee. Multiple "blowouts" at low tire mileage should have been investigated to learn the reason why. It could be a faulty pressure gauge misleading you to think the tires were properly inflated. There is a possibility that there was a manufacturing defect in the batch of tires those 3 came from. Did they all have the same DOT serial? When you sent the complaint to NHTSA what did they say? If defective you would have been compensated for the cost of tires and possibly the damage to the RV.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

Tires do not fail simply because they are made in "China" any more than RVs built in Indiana have more defects and problems than do the RVs made in Tennessee. Multiple "blowouts" at low tire mileage should have been investigated to learn the reason why. It could be a faulty pressure gauge misleading you to think the tires were properly inflated. There is a possibility that there was a manufacturing defect in the batch of tires those 3 came from. Did they all have the same DOT serial? When you sent the complaint to NHTSA what did they say? If defective you would have been compensated for the cost of tires and possibly the damage to the RV.

I think for most people not mired in minutia; trying to weigh each axle, reporting to NHTSA etc. is simply ridiculous. They way I was raised; it is or it ain't. TKs fail....unfailingly. Those replacing them with more reputable brands? No more problems. Manufacturing defects in a batch? I figure all (most) of them with TKs. The belief that all tires are equal and failures are caused by the owner's failures - totally false. As you have said, you have NO knowledge of the compounds used (proprietary) nor the processes, so when a person picks up a different brand tire and it weighs 8lbs. more than a TK.... We ALL know that answer.

As I've said before, reporting a tire failure to NHTSA? For what? Waste your time? Get a "free" tire - HA! Life is real and spending time trying to run hoops to accomplish nothing and mire yourself in red tape is useless in most folks' minds. Dumping the junk (as we know they are) then buying a quality product not only immediately fixes the problem but also makes everyone safer. JMO as yours is.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by sourdough

I think for most people not mired in minutia; trying to weigh each axle, reporting to NHTSA etc. is simply ridiculous. They way I was raised; it is or it ain't. TKs fail....unfailingly. Those replacing them with more reputable brands? No more problems. Manufacturing defects in a batch? I figure all (most) of them with TKs. The belief that all tires are equal and failures are caused by the owner's failures - totally false. As you have said, you have NO knowledge of the compounds used (proprietary) nor the processes, so when a person picks up a different brand tire and it weighs 8lbs. more than a TK.... We ALL know that answer.

As I've said before, reporting a tire failure to NHTSA? For what? Waste your time? Get a "free" tire - HA! Life is real and spending time trying to run hoops to accomplish nothing and mire yourself in red tape is useless in most folks' minds. Dumping the junk (as we know they are) then buying a quality product not only immediately fixes the problem but also makes everyone safer. JMO as yours is.

How is it possible for tires made in China to pass all the same tests that USA made tires must pass. I know this for a fact as i have run the tests. It is also a fact that a majority of RV have one or more tires in overload. This is based on over 10,000 tires measured. When a tire is overloaded it is more likely to fail no matter the country of origin.
But if you don't want to believe science that is up to you. All i do is offer facts.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

How is it possible for tires made in China to pass all the same tests that USA made tires must pass. I know this for a fact as i have run the tests. It is also a fact that a majority of RV have one or more tires in overload. This is based on over 10,000 tires measured. When a tire is overloaded it is more likely to fail no matter the country of origin.
But if you don't want to believe science that is up to you. All i do is offer facts.

Maybe it’s because the tires that we are talking about pass the MINIMUM standard tests for safety and are tested while they are just off the assembly line.
The better tires ..goodyear,Carlisle,sailun etc may far surpass the minimal standards for safety, performance and longevity.

Do the tire engineeers test for maximum performance? There must be a reason that nascar, F1 and off-road enthusiasts/ racers choose name brand tires and manufacturers.

Do the engineers ever do a 1 year ,2 year same test of a group of tires from different manufacturers and see how they perform after being exposed to the sun? How the rubber degrades faster in some brands then others?

If I was getting open heart surgery I’d want the surgeon who scored the highest in medical school…not the one that just barely passed

[stevencina]

Originally Posted by sourdough

I think for most people not mired in minutia; trying to weigh each axle, reporting to NHTSA etc. is simply ridiculous. They way I was raised; it is or it ain't. TKs fail....unfailingly. Those replacing them with more reputable brands? No more problems. Manufacturing defects in a batch? I figure all (most) of them with TKs. The belief that all tires are equal and failures are caused by the owner's failures - totally false. As you have said, you have NO knowledge of the compounds used (proprietary) nor the processes, so when a person picks up a different brand tire and it weighs 8lbs. more than a TK.... We ALL know that answer.

As I've said before, reporting a tire failure to NHTSA? For what? Waste your time? Get a "free" tire - HA! Life is real and spending time trying to run hoops to accomplish nothing and mire yourself in red tape is useless in most folks' minds. Dumping the junk (as we know they are) then buying a quality product not only immediately fixes the problem but also makes everyone safer. JMO as yours is.

I use a digital tire gauge and also have tire monitors they are both accurite. I keep the tires covered when not in use and park on wood in the storage area,
I have had an occasional blow out over the years but never have I had a complete tread peeled off the tire and damage the RV. The 3 tires that exploded on the last trip all blew the same, tread peeled right off in exactly the same place in a straight line following the tread line. I did not drive on the flat as I pulled over as soon as they blew. Average driving speed 65-70.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

How is it possible for tires made in China to pass all the same tests that USA made tires must pass. I know this for a fact as i have run the tests. It is also a fact that a majority of RV have one or more tires in overload. This is based on over 10,000 tires measured. When a tire is overloaded it is more likely to fail no matter the country of origin.
But if you don't want to believe science that is up to you. All i do is offer facts.

And yet the Yugo and a Mercedes-Benz S-Class passed the same requirements in order to be sold in the USA. So by YOUR scientific theory they are equal. I don't agree with your "science".