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Old 02-17-2022, 08:05 AM   #21
Northofu1
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Quote:
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Not to be political .....but there are only two sure things in life...Death and taxes!.......and in my case, an ex wife!
SAME! ^^^^^ 2

Just to add, are there any fluids that leak from green vehicles from an accident that would cause damage to asphalt? Potholes are usually caused by fossil fuel bi-product fluids. Tranny and brake fluid is brutal.
Now with horses, cows, and oxen, they would just start a "Bull ****" tax
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Old 02-17-2022, 10:53 AM   #22
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I have no doubts with the EVs being crammed down the throats of some state residents that those doing the cramming will also find a way to tax them appropriately/equally to gas burners once their road maintenance coffer runs dry unless they convert the EVs to hover craft.
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Old 02-18-2022, 05:24 AM   #23
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Here's an "interesting article" from way back in 2001, concerning the "net loss of energy to produce ethanol"... https://news.cornell.edu/stories/200...scientist-says

Essentially, half the BTU's in a gallon of ethanol are consumed by fossil fuel needed to run the tractors and harvest machines to grow the corn. Then even more is required to process the corn "at the fermenting center"...

Bottom line, back in 2001 was that there was a "NET LOSS" in energy because it took 54,000 more BTU per gallon to produce ethanol than was actually in the gallon of ethanol.

As for economics, back then, it cost $0.95 to produce a gallon of fossil fuel and $1.74 to produce a gallon of ethanol. That doesn't include the increase costs of diverting that corn from feeding animals or humans, which drives up the "hidden costs" of ethanol when you add in the inflationary costs of a can of corn at WalMart or a "sack of corn" at the feed store.

Interesting article, 20 years ago and although the "processing costs have changed, the government still has to offset the cost of ethanol with tax dollars to make it possible to "force us to use it in vehicles"..... Otherwise, it would be economically impossible to maintain ethanol use for transportation.

True article. As a farm raised boy growing corn and soybeans I can assure you that welfare is extended to all sorts of folks, and industries. It takes approximately 10% more to produce ethanol. This will reduce carcinogens in the atmosphere as a by product of our living and moving about. A good thing. By using pure refined oil, i.e. gas, I get about 10 to 12% better mileage. So have always wondered is it a net gain of 0? As far as carcinogens in the air? BUT the reality is it has nothing to do with that. Try getting ethanol out of gas now that corn producers (can't really call them farmers it is so industrialized now) rely on the market for their genetically altered corn which has the capabilities of producing toxins to kill most insects that get on it. Bees included. No good deed goes unpunished.
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Old 02-18-2022, 05:53 AM   #24
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And recent National Acadamy of Sciences reportedly concludes that ethanol added to gasoline is more detremental to climate change than straight gasoline. Nowdays "green", "environmenyly freindly", " good for the planer", etc. Is like reading " new and improved" on any label in a supermarket.
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Old 02-18-2022, 07:13 AM   #25
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Looking back at history and the world's "tense eras", I believe a part of the decision to augment gasoline with ethanol was to try to eliminate North America's dependence on Middle Eastern oil. It was a trade off to "accept the negative impact on fuel mileage and engine damage" in order to lower the amount of crude oil being imported from countries that were using our need for energy as a tool to manipulate pricing of crude oil.

Then, at the time the government was paying farmers NOT to plant corn to help reduce the surplus and keep the price of grain from dropping...

So, some who were in power "sold the government" a "scheme" to increase corn production, keep grain prices high, reduce oil imports and not do "too much damage" to the automobile engines that were currently in use.

Once ethanol was "here to stay", the "engine industry" adapted new fuel lines, new carburetor technology, more "fuel stabilizers" to combat the ethanol damage and the price of a gallon of gas (that was supposed to go down slightly with the reduced performance caused by ethanol) started creeping up by the cost of those fuel additives and the increased cost to produce an engine capable of surviving ethanol's damage....

For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction...... It's not only true in rocket propulsion, but also in ethanol production..... Just the "Cliff notes" version of what I think I remember from around 1971 when "lead free gas and catalytic converters" started the downward trend in what used to be considered "conventional internal combustion technology" .... YMMV
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Old 02-18-2022, 07:20 AM   #26
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Spock, nice example of trolling - posting a provocative comment to inspire comments. Nice that these were thought provoking and not angry.
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Old 02-18-2022, 12:03 PM   #27
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As for the road tax for electric vehicles, didn't you hear what the democrats have planned? Mileage tax! Not as a replacement for fuel tax, but in addition! They have it figured so they will get another $934.00 per year in revenue over and above what we are used to paying.

I found this on a Facebook post. Good article and as I've said, I don't see this happening anytime soon. My question is, how much will these 9000 pound batteries cost and how often will they need to be replaced?

https://www.facebook.com/Engineering...44146897914197
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Old 02-18-2022, 10:35 PM   #28
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As for the road tax for electric vehicles, didn't you hear what the democrats have planned? Mileage tax! Not as a replacement for fuel tax, but in addition! They have it figured so they will get another $934.00 per year in revenue over and above what we are used to paying.

I found this on a Facebook post. Good article and as I've said, I don't see this happening anytime soon. My question is, how much will these 9000 pound batteries cost and how often will they need to be replaced?

https://www.facebook.com/Engineering...44146897914197
Ah yes, Facebook. The second most reliable source of factual information after the internet itself lol.
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Old 02-19-2022, 06:35 AM   #29
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Ah yes, Facebook. The second most reliable source of factual information after the internet itself lol.
Oh, you mean there is actually a RELIABLE news source nowadays?! Please share, I hate being in the dark. And I'm sure yours is better than mine, whatever it is.....
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Old 02-19-2022, 08:10 AM   #30
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Oh, you mean there is actually a RELIABLE news source nowadays?! Please share, I hate being in the dark. And I'm sure yours is better than mine, whatever it is.....
No, there isnít. FB rates right up there with CNN and Fox was the point. Sorry you missed the humor in the comment.
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Old 02-20-2022, 03:06 AM   #31
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Sorry, I’ve been accused of having a dry sense of humor…..
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Old 02-20-2022, 08:37 AM   #32
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I was booking at a campground that is now charging $10 more per day for electric vehicles to plug in. So much for free.
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Old 02-20-2022, 08:59 AM   #33
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As of November 2020, 28 states have laws requiring a special registration fee for plug-in electric vehicles. Of those, 14 states also assess a separate, slightly lower fee on plug-in hybrid vehicles.

The fees range from $50 per year in Colorado, South Dakota and Hawaii to $225 for a plug-in electric vehicle in Washington. Alabama, Arkansas, Ohio and Wyoming all enacted bills in 2019, setting or increasing fees for electric vehicles to $200 annually. Most recently, Oklahoma and South Dakota both enacted legislation in 2021 to impose new EV fees. South Dakota now imposes a flat $50 fee for all PEVs, while Oklahoma has tiered EV fees based on vehicle weight, with a $110 fee for EVs under 6,000 pounds. Idaho introduced legislation in April 2021, currently pending, that would increase the stateís EV registration fee from $140 to $300 annually. If enacted, it would also create an alternative 2.5 cents per mile fee system, which drivers can pay in lieu of the $300 fee.
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Old 02-20-2022, 09:15 AM   #34
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I donít really want to start anything but I imagine that a lot of people laughed at Orville and Wilbur Wright, first powered flight 12 seconds. I wonder how many amps it takes to charge a EV. Ford is supposed to come out with a F-150, Lightning I believe. It should tow a pretty good travel trailer with out any problems. Now if Ford will just up the truck to a 3/4 ton I would trade my GMC dually diesel for one
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Old 02-20-2022, 09:19 AM   #35
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Oh I forgot one very important item, there has to be a law telling how many miles you drive in each state so you can pay Road tax in each state plus the feds road tax. Thatís going to be the real problem
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Old 02-20-2022, 09:41 AM   #36
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I don’t really want to start anything but I imagine that a lot of people laughed at Orville and Wilbur Wright, first powered flight 12 seconds. I wonder how many amps it takes to charge a EV. Ford is supposed to come out with a F-150, Lightning I believe. It should tow a pretty good travel trailer with out any problems. Now if Ford will just up the truck to a 3/4 ton I would trade my GMC dually diesel for one
My neighbor just got the Ford Mach E Mustang, why it's called Mustang with absolutely no resemblance? Looks like a Tesla with the pony on the front & Mustang type taillights.
If plugged into 110v household plug nets 36 miles w/ 12 hours of charge, if plugged into 220v plug nets 72 miles in 12 hours. He chose to purchase the $800 dollar 220v rapid charger that charges to 100% in 8 hours. Optimum mileage w/full charge is 250 miles depending on terrain & whether heat or A/C is being used.
The big 3 auto makers along with several independent companies will have electric trucks in the near future. In my opinion it will be a LONG time before there's one built to tow a rv/trailer for any significant mileage before needing to charge for a day. It will similar to the gassers today, yes they'll be able to tow it, but for how far before you'll have to stop for a charge & for now WHERE do you stop to charge.
There's a Culver's restaurant in town with 4-5 charging stations out back, but they are Tesla chargers, not for all EVs. My neighbors Mustang, if not charging at home, has the charging stations pre programmed in the GPS, all of which, so far, are at Ford dealerships. How handy is that?
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Old 02-20-2022, 09:45 AM   #37
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In Utah our legislature is making damn sure EV’s don’t get out of paying road use taxes. Betting other states will fall right in line. Can you tell I’m fond of politicians?
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Old 02-20-2022, 09:53 AM   #38
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Burning coal to make electricity and using oil is by far the lowest cost and most efficient way produce energy. Without our electric grid a big percent of people would not survive, without John Deere tractors and fertilizer the world would starve. Solar is good for making energy when you don't have the electric grid available.
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Old 02-20-2022, 10:43 AM   #39
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I hope GM brings out a electric 3500 soon. Just think how much money I would save on campground fees. I could use the batteries in the truck to furnish all my electrical needs. Just stop at Walmart or a rest area. The high price of diesel would be history and no more state or federal road tax. Just a win win
Yeah when you get to that charging station in the middle of the Texas desert, you can get the truck running again after 24 hours and drive another 200 miles.
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Old 02-20-2022, 12:57 PM   #40
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Car & Driver EV tow test

Not ready for hauling yet. Here is the Car & Driver test of the Rivian truck towing.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...towing-tested/
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