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Old 09-18-2021, 09:26 AM   #21
JRTJH
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Originally Posted by chuckster57 View Post
I was aware of t he plow/PTO stuff. Glad I dont have a need for regen, or other upfitter stuff

K.I.S.S.
I had a 1993 7.3L NA diesel. When it was parked in the garage overnight, I couldn't start it unless I opened the garage door and rolled up all the windows. Otherwise, the garage filled with black "sooty smoke" and the engine was so noisy that it hurt to be in the driver's seat with the windows down.

My current "DEF diesel" is comparable to my 6.2L gas engine in noise, even when cold and there's no "black coal on startup". The garage stays clean, no soot on everything on my workbench and no earplugs needed.

When it comes to comparing the old diesel to this newer one (mine is a third generation Scorpion) it's hard to wrap my head around "wanting to go back to what I had"..... Heck, just being able to stand in the garage with the truck running and have a conversation while actually breathing, not coughing, is enough for me to not want my old one back.

I'm not suggesting that everyone should (or shouldn't) feel the same, just giving my experience...

About the only thing I can think of that's similar to the old diesels is getting diesel on your shoes and on your hands while refueling at a "busy/dirty fuel pump".... Otherwise, there's little comparison of negatives, regardless of brand.
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Old 09-18-2021, 09:40 AM   #22
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Mine only rolled coal once, I was towing the old Jayco at high altitude and wasnt aware of the "smashed " downpipe that ford used to make the turbo IDI a real slug when the 1st powerstroke was introduced in the second half. As soon as we got back from that trip I contacted ATS since they were the ones that designed that setup except the DP fiasco. I was able to get an upgraded turbine housing/ 3" outlet housing and full 3" DP. ran new exhaust and WOW is all I can say. Would I like a new truck? yeah but not the payments that go with them. Ill deal with my meager 240HP and 350 Lb/ft of torque
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Old 09-18-2021, 09:53 AM   #23
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I had a 1993 7.3L NA diesel. When it was parked in the garage overnight, I couldn't start it unless I opened the garage door and rolled up all the windows. Otherwise, the garage filled with black "sooty smoke" and the engine was so noisy that it hurt to be in the driver's seat with the windows down.

My current "DEF diesel" is comparable to my 6.2L gas engine in noise, even when cold and there's no "black coal on startup". The garage stays clean, no soot on everything on my workbench and no earplugs needed.

When it comes to comparing the old diesel to this newer one (mine is a third generation Scorpion) it's hard to wrap my head around "wanting to go back to what I had"..... Heck, just being able to stand in the garage with the truck running and have a conversation while actually breathing, not coughing, is enough for me to not want my old one back.

I'm not suggesting that everyone should (or shouldn't) feel the same, just giving my experience...

About the only thing I can think of that's similar to the old diesels is getting diesel on your shoes and on your hands while refueling at a "busy/dirty fuel pump".... Otherwise, there's little comparison of negatives, regardless of brand.
Why is it the diesel pumps are always so filthy ? Is it because gas evaporates quickly?Ö they would be just as messy? ÖIt mostly looks like someone gave a 3 year old the nozzle to try and fill the trucks ..only thing I donít like about diesel trucks
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Old 09-18-2021, 09:54 AM   #24
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My 93 was an "early year manufacture" with a NA 7.3L diesel. About the last quarter or so, Ford introduced the turbocharged 7.3 as an OEM option. When I bought mine, they weren't even talking about a factory turbocharger. Everyone was installing a Banks system. Since we were in Louisiana, I didn't see much need for a turbo. Pretty much a case of "I didn't know what I didn't know:...

Anyway, we towed our Holiday Rambler to Las Vegas and going up to Albuquerque, we had the roof vents open on the trailer (to keep it cooler) and when we stopped, there was a "oily film on everything inside the trailer and all down the passengers side of the trailer.... DW was not a "happy camper" and I was instructed that we weren't leaving Las Vegas until I had fixed that problem... That was back when Camping World would install anything they sell for $5. The closest CW was in Henderson, and when we pulled out of the Circus Circus camping lot (no way to call that a campground), we had a "turbochared 7.3L Ford".... What a difference that climb to Albuquerque was with the turbo...

I don't think you can even buy a NA diesel for onroad use these days.
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Old 09-18-2021, 10:00 AM   #25
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Get your panties out of a wad, Mr. big internet moderator tough guy. Itís all in good fun. With the exception of one statement, what I said was not an opinion. Facts. But itís a forum, so if I wanted to share my opinion I CAN.

Iíve had all 3 brands, as my second post eluded to. Have a drink and cool off fella.
My post was NOT a suggestion. It was a NOTICE to cease and desist. If you post once more to "share your opinion" on this topic your post will be deleted and you will receive an infraction. This is not negotiable.
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Old 09-18-2021, 02:53 PM   #26
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Why is it the diesel pumps are always so filthy ? Is it because gas evaporates quickly?Ö they would be just as messy? ÖIt mostly looks like someone gave a 3 year old the nozzle to try and fill the trucks ..only thing I donít like about diesel trucks
The easiest way to think about is gas is a solvent and diesel is an oil! Solvent will evaporate, oil doesnít.
That said and all the people stink of diesel fuel and pre emissions diesel, I much prefer getting diesel on my hands than gas. I find it much easier to was off. The smell of gas penetrates deeper in the skin, and the smell is far harder to wash out.
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Old 09-18-2021, 03:18 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
I had a 1993 7.3L NA diesel. When it was parked in the garage overnight, I couldn't start it unless I opened the garage door and rolled up all the windows. Otherwise, the garage filled with black "sooty smoke" and the engine was so noisy that it hurt to be in the driver's seat with the windows down.

My current "DEF diesel" is comparable to my 6.2L gas engine in noise, even when cold and there's no "black coal on startup". The garage stays clean, no soot on everything on my workbench and no earplugs needed.

When it comes to comparing the old diesel to this newer one (mine is a third generation Scorpion) it's hard to wrap my head around "wanting to go back to what I had"..... Heck, just being able to stand in the garage with the truck running and have a conversation while actually breathing, not coughing, is enough for me to not want my old one back.

I'm not suggesting that everyone should (or shouldn't) feel the same, just giving my experience...

About the only thing I can think of that's similar to the old diesels is getting diesel on your shoes and on your hands while refueling at a "busy/dirty fuel pump".... Otherwise, there's little comparison of negatives, regardless of brand.
LOL, while never had the black smoke with the 2001 Ram CTD, had the common early diesel mechanical injector and pump issue! Yes, sounded like a tin can with a bunch of bolts rattling around in it. We lived in a townhouse before retirement, and when the outside temperature was below 40 degrees I would plug in the block heater so it would be a bit quieter on startup.
The 2016 Ram is much quieter at startup and any other time.
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Old 09-18-2021, 04:11 PM   #28
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LOL, while never had the black smoke with the 2001 Ram CTD, had the common early diesel mechanical injector and pump issue! Yes, sounded like a tin can with a bunch of bolts rattling around in it. We lived in a townhouse before retirement, and when the outside temperature was below 40 degrees I would plug in the block heater so it would be a bit quieter on startup.
The 2016 Ram is much quieter at startup and any other time.
When we bought our 2015, we were trading in a 2013 6.2l gas truck. We parked in the dealership front lot, walked inside, the salesman greeted us and invited us to walk out and "take a look at our new truck"... We walked out, he handed me the keys and I sat in the driver's seat, started the truck and shut it off, opened the hood to make sure it was a diesel. It was "that much quieter than my previous 1999 and 2005 diesels. I was shocked (pleasantly pleased) that it was so quiet, but I had to verify it was "really a diesel" just to be sure Ford hadn't installed the wrong emblems on the doors... It actually made less noise than the gas truck we drove to the dealership.

Now, with almost 70K on the truck, I can start it up and get out of the truck, open the hood and still carry on a "normal level conversation" with the engine running. I could never imagine that with my 7.3 or 6.0 engines.
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Old 09-18-2021, 06:17 PM   #29
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The big reduction in the noisy diesels was the introduction of the common rail and electronic injectors. They went from the Big Bang single injection of fuel, to a multi pulse fuel injection. It also allowed for production of more power our 2016 HO Aisin has 385 HP and 900# torque, the 2021 has 420 HP and 1,075# torque. I have seen where GM Dmax is going to be over 500 HP.
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Old 09-18-2021, 06:33 PM   #30
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The big reduction in the noisy diesels was the introduction of the common rail and electronic injectors. They went from the Big Bang single injection of fuel, to a multi pulse fuel injection. It also allowed for production of more power our 2016 HO Aisin has 385 HP and 900# torque, the 2021 has 420 HP and 1,075# torque. I have seen where GM Dmax is going to be over 500 HP.
If you park a new Ford diesel next to a new RAM or GM diesel and start them with the hood open, you'll immediately notice a significant difference in noise while standing in front of the engine. The way Ford "insulated against noise" in the 6.7L was to put the exhaust manifold on top of the engine and the intake manifolds on the side. Essentially they swapped location of the intake/exhaust manifolds. What that did was twofold. First, it put the bulk of the engine between the "noise" and the outside, and then, it significantly shortened the "tubing for the turbo" by putting the exhaust "right next to the turbo and the intake manifolds "inline with the turbo".

With the exhaust manifolds on the side, the exhaust has to be routed "up to the turbo then down to the catalytic converter". By making that a "straight run from the cylinders through the turbo to the catalytic converter, the turbo spools faster and the plumbing run is simplified. (That's what Ford says happens)...

For me, and most newer Ford owners, we can tell when we're standing in front of our truck while it's running and there's a significant difference in the other two brands... It's a noticeable difference, not one you have to "try hard to find".

If you haven't yet asked a new Ford owner to start his truck, do so the next time you have a chance. You'll question if it's really a diesel under the hood. Then open the hood on his truck while it's running and then walk over and open the hood on your truck. You'll see what I'm talking about.

To some people, it doesn't matter, to others, they may prefer the "clatter and increased noise". For me, I prefer being able to start the truck in the garage, get out, walk over to the workbench, get my gloves and then get back in the truck without feeling the need to shut the truck off or grab earplugs for the trip. YMMV
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Old 09-18-2021, 07:14 PM   #31
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Well the turbo on Cummins is mounted directly to the exhaust manifold then directly down to the Converter.
I understand Ford is doing everything they came to make it quieter, including special noise dampen windshield.
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Old 09-18-2021, 07:44 PM   #32
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When we bought our 2015, we were trading in a 2013 6.2l gas truck. We parked in the dealership front lot, walked inside, the salesman greeted us and invited us to walk out and "take a look at our new truck"... We walked out, he handed me the keys and I sat in the driver's seat, started the truck and shut it off, opened the hood to make sure it was a diesel. It was "that much quieter than my previous 1999 and 2005 diesels. I was shocked (pleasantly pleased) that it was so quiet, but I had to verify it was "really a diesel" just to be sure Ford hadn't installed the wrong emblems on the doors... It actually made less noise than the gas truck we drove to the dealership.

Now, with almost 70K on the truck, I can start it up and get out of the truck, open the hood and still carry on a "normal level conversation" with the engine running. I could never imagine that with my 7.3 or 6.0 engines.
From my experiences with the Ford 6.0 it was very quiet due to the fact it didn't run but about 10 minutes at time before it was back in the shop.
I don't recall what year GM first came out with the Duramax, but a good friend of mine bought a new Chevy 2500. We were standing directly in front of the truck when he said it was a diesel, he had to show me the fender badging & open the hood to prove it.
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Old 09-18-2021, 07:45 PM   #33
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Well the turbo on Cummins is mounted directly to the exhaust manifold then directly down to the Converter.
I understand Ford is doing everything they came to make it quieter, including special noise dampen windshield.
And it's a "long, long way" back up from that turbo to the intake manifolds. That's what Ford was trying to eliminate and they shortened the distance significantly.

Yep, and even way back in the early 2000's, Ford introduced "quiet steel" which was "steel foil" (for lack of a better description) bonded together with a rubber compound. They had sheets of it hanging in every dealership with a hammer on a string. "Clang the steel" was the mantra. Hit the regular steel and listen to it ring and ring and ring.... Hit the "quiet steel" and it "clunked once".

There's been technology advances in everything, why not in "windshields" ???
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Old 09-23-2021, 07:28 AM   #34
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Back to the original postÖ Iím surprised the modern trucks donít fast idle when they need to? And this is a question not an attack-why would you need a manual fast idle? And I wonder if itís a feature if you order your truck with a pto?
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Old 09-23-2021, 09:27 AM   #35
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Back to the original postÖ Iím surprised the modern trucks donít fast idle when they need to? And this is a question not an attack-why would you need a manual fast idle? And I wonder if itís a feature if you order your truck with a pto?
These modern diesel's with their emission controls are not built to idle. Just about any prolonged idling will accumulate and eventually result in the EGR cooler getting clogged, buildup of carbon on the turbo turbine blades and DPF filter getting clogged up prematurely.

If you live in a hot and humid environment and park with the AC on or remote start a truck in the winter time to get it heated up, the high idle option is perfect to prevent issues.

Most people's idle hours build up way faster than they would ever expect it....the idle hour meter Ford started putting on these trucks has really enlightened some folks on how much they actually idle.
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Old 09-23-2021, 10:51 AM   #36
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These modern diesel's with their emission controls are not built to idle. Just about any prolonged idling will accumulate and eventually result in the EGR cooler getting clogged, buildup of carbon on the turbo turbine blades and DPF filter getting clogged up prematurely.

If you live in a hot and humid environment and park with the AC on or remote start a truck in the winter time to get it heated up, the high idle option is perfect to prevent issues.

Most people's idle hours build up way faster than they would ever expect it....the idle hour meter Ford started putting on these trucks has really enlightened some folks on how much they actually idle.
Thanks, I had assumed that the engineers would work all that out in the ecu programming.
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Old 09-25-2021, 05:14 AM   #37
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Mine only rolled coal once, I was towing the old Jayco at high altitude and wasnt aware of the "smashed " downpipe that ford used to make the turbo IDI a real slug when the 1st powerstroke was introduced in the second half. As soon as we got back from that trip I contacted ATS since they were the ones that designed that setup except the DP fiasco. I was able to get an upgraded turbine housing/ 3" outlet housing and full 3" DP. ran new exhaust and WOW is all I can say. Would I like a new truck? yeah but not the payments that go with them. Ill deal with my meager 240HP and 350 Lb/ft of torque
With 240hp and 350lb/ft of torque, what size rig are you pulling if I might ask?
I am seriously considering the 7.3l gas with 430hp and 475 lb/ft of torque for an upgrade. DW and I are leaning towards a Montana 3120RL. So I know what I need weight wise.
Would I like a diesel, sure! New diesels, all of them are modern marvels of power. But do I really need it? I'm not quite sold on that yet. Especially when so many owners are still using their older diesels that have lower hp/torque ratings. Many have said don't worry about breakdowns. But when the EPA started their mandates, diesel simplicity and reliability took a big hit.
Full disclosure, we currently tow an older 28ft 5er now with an ecoboost. Tons of power, but not really eco. So I am familiar with mpg and range. But, this will be my last rig. I plan on keeping the Monte and the TV it as long as I've kept my other trucks. So I'm looking for very long term reliability. I'm not bailing on a TV after the warranty runs out. Am I wrong?
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Old 09-25-2021, 06:02 AM   #38
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With 240hp and 350lb/ft of torque, what size rig are you pulling if I might ask?
I am seriously considering the 7.3l gas with 430hp and 475 lb/ft of torque for an upgrade. DW and I are leaning towards a Montana 3120RL. So I know what I need weight wise.
Would I like a diesel, sure! New diesels, all of them are modern marvels of power. But do I really need it? I'm not quite sold on that yet. Especially when so many owners are still using their older diesels that have lower hp/torque ratings. Many have said don't worry about breakdowns. But when the EPA started their mandates, diesel simplicity and reliability took a big hit.
Full disclosure, we currently tow an older 28ft 5er now with an ecoboost. Tons of power, but not really eco. So I am familiar with mpg and range. But, this will be my last rig. I plan on keeping the Monte and the TV it as long as I've kept my other trucks. So I'm looking for very long term reliability. I'm not bailing on a TV after the warranty runs out. Am I wrong?

You quoted Chuck but you pose a question I've asked myself, and dealt with, a thousand times.

Personally I think anything in the Montana line (3120/3121 are the smallest) requires a diesel without any question. The 3120 with a gvwr of approx. 16,350 is just too heavy for a gas engine including the 7.3. In addition, that size trailer will require a DRW and there is simply no point IMO in buying a truck with that capability then putting a gas engine in it; sort of like buying a 40' speedboat and putting a 10HP Johnson in it.

Reliability for me is a moot point because I won't keep a truck long enough for that aspect to make a difference. You said it will be your last vehicle/RV; the trailer will be good for that, a gas engine TV will not. You don't say what your plans are as far as traveling but if you are actually going to "travel" forget that gas engine.

I have the combo in my signature. That combo is on purpose and predicated solely on my desire NOT to have a diesel truck. The trailer was a compromise because I wanted something heavier.....a 3121 in fact. There was just not any way to make the tow numbers work "legitimately" with a gas engine, 7.3 included. Pulling a larger trailer with a gas engine you will quickly find their limitations. If it's your last shot at a TV/RV combo go for it; get the 3121 and the DRW diesel it really requires then.....go forth, have fun and be happy!!
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Old 09-25-2021, 06:40 AM   #39
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Here is a quick video detailing my install of a BD Performance High Idle kit on my 22 F450.

This is not a sponsored video, I am not monetized, I am not a professional. I donít even ask to like and subscribe!

Enjoy or not!

https://youtu.be/-Xk8prdQPLE
See what you started?
I liked your video on youtube. It was well done, I own a gas gmc, but can appreciate why and how you did it. I can also appreciate a warm truck in northern winters.
Thanks again
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Old 09-25-2021, 07:29 AM   #40
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You quoted Chuck but you pose a question I've asked myself, and dealt with, a thousand times.

Personally I think anything in the Montana line (3120/3121 are the smallest) requires a diesel without any question. The 3120 with a gvwr of approx. 16,350 is just too heavy for a gas engine including the 7.3. In addition, that size trailer will require a DRW and there is simply no point IMO in buying a truck with that capability then putting a gas engine in it; sort of like buying a 40' speedboat and putting a 10HP Johnson in it.

Reliability for me is a moot point because I won't keep a truck long enough for that aspect to make a difference. You said it will be your last vehicle/RV; the trailer will be good for that, a gas engine TV will not. You don't say what your plans are as far as traveling but if you are actually going to "travel" forget that gas engine.

I have the combo in my signature. That combo is on purpose and predicated solely on my desire NOT to have a diesel truck. The trailer was a compromise because I wanted something heavier.....a 3121 in fact. There was just not any way to make the tow numbers work "legitimately" with a gas engine, 7.3 included. Pulling a larger trailer with a gas engine you will quickly find their limitations. If it's your last shot at a TV/RV combo go for it; get the 3121 and the DRW diesel it really requires then.....go forth, have fun and be happy!!
I'd have to agree with Danny 100%!
If it's the last truck you're buying get the best option, which for that rv is a dually diesel of whichever brand you like.
Reading this forum you'd never know it but there are 3 brands of diesel trucks that are more than capable of handling the task.
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