Calling all weight polic: 5th wheel question

[Rocketsled]

Originally Posted by Ribtip

O.p i answered your question very simple with a yes yesterday. Anything else you will read here after that is opinion. Do not cross any weight on your truck. And be glad you didn't ask about what color to buy.

I was gonna ask opinions on Oil Change interval and brand next…mostly because I seem to like y’all and what you have to say. (Know that it’s a forbidden topic on most motorcycle, Corvette, and IT forums as well)

Originally Posted by JRHTH

The "payload sticker" is only valid on the day the truck was weighed at the end of the assembly line and the sticker was attached to the door frame....

As soon as it rolled onto the dealer's lot and you bought it, that "maximum payload" becomes a "conditional payload"... in other words, if your DW is sitting in the passenger's seat and she weighs 300 pounds, you have less payload than if she's sitting in the passenger's seat and weighs 100 pounds...

The audience ponders the factualness of the statement and ponders the way it was presented with abject horror.

Originally Posted by JRHTH

To "clarify" the above: It could be weight in her purse or weight on her seat, both affect that "yellow sticker" by reducing the remaining "available payload"...

And JRHTH sticks the recovery!

I’m thinking I need a truck with double the payload of the measured, fully-wet, trailer requirements. Anything less could be catastrophe.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by Ribtip

Thank you for keeping me laughing.

I will not engage in you any further unless it's in a PM. I'd urge you to review the forum rules. A link is available at the bottom of each page.

[Ribtip]

Originally Posted by flybouy

I will not engage in you any further unless it's in a PM. I'd urge you to review the forum rules. A link is available at the bottom of each page.

Ok i'll pm you the link so you can read also

[toolittletime]

Here's a good example of staying well within my towing limits......just sayin.

[Rocketsled]

I’m betting we average out! (and apparently I’ve already flipped the rig.)

[firestation12]

Originally Posted by xrated

In 99.999% of the time, the truck's available payload capacity will be the limiting factor for a 5th wheel camper.......not nearly as much for tow behind campers.

And just so you know, the order of progression for overload goes like this.
First, when you add enough weight to the truck, you will reach the payload number.
Second...if you go over the payload number, you automatically go over the GVWR of the truck.
Next is the Axle ratings.....if you keep adding weight to the truck, you will eventually overload the axle.
Then the last thing....once you have overloaded the payload and the GVWR of the truck, and then the axle rating, you will eventually reach the tire load capacity. This is assuming that the tires are fully inflated to the max psi that is listed on the sidewall of the tire. This is also assuming that the tires are new enough that they still have the stated load capacity at the listed psi on the tire.

I really liked the simplicity of this explanation. It would be useful to quote in future threads on the subject. Good job Xrated.

[JRTJH]

I ran across this article again a couple days ago. It's some "food for thought" about the "I've never heard of anyone being sued" or "They say I can't be held liable for...".... This 2017 article addresses the "advances in personal injury claims" from a "lawyer's perspective"...

https://www.motortrend.com/features/...-trailer-size/

[firestation12]

Rush Limbaugh often to himself as having “talent on loan from God”. I think this group could also proclaim the same. I’d love to spend a month sitting around a campfire, listening to any and all conversations this group could produce. What an amazing assortment of backgrounds! Keep up the good work!

[Dan Lockwood]

Just thought I would share my experience as a newbie.

I had a '12 RAM 1 ton dually 6.7 diesel that I "thought" should pull anything I could drop in the fifth wheel hitch. We didn't have a RV yet and was looking.

My Raptor toy hauler grosses at 18k#. I was coming back from a trip all loaded with two Harleys etc in the garage and stopped at a CAT Scale to weigh it.

Short story it was under on all the axles and GVWR...👍 But later found out that I was quite a bit over on the GTWR of the particular RAM truck by about 3k#. I believe the GTWR was 23,500# and my total rig was 26,240#. It towed alright, but I was always thinking about how I would stop it in a panic situation.

So that convinced the wife we needed a new heavier truck, enter our new '21 Ford F-350 King Ranch dually with 5,280# payload. For some unknown reason, the new truck has a GTWR over 40k#, think I'm okay now...😀

Funny thing, someone on here was talking about getting a new F-450 for more payload and as fate would have it, my F-350 had mire payload than the F-450 has. Both rated at 14,000# GVWR. So the heavier 450's weight was subtracted from the GVWR and had less payload.

Hard to comprehend that the ultimate Ford towing truck isn't... Although they have a great turning radius I hear. That would have been nice.

Sorry for the disjointed post, more rambling I guess. 👍

Dan

[avalanchehd]

Load the truck as close as possible, family, toolbox,fuel, dog, ect, add 200lbs for a hitch. 10$ at cat scales, get truck actual weight, do a little math and you will know about how much pin weight your truck can handle.

[Todd727]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Well that concession should not be pressing payload! As a driver of DRW I call BS on parking and walking. I say 90% of the size issue with a DRW is a mental issue with the driver.
We full time and our 2016 is our only vehicle, there are very few places I won’t go that maybe a SRW might go.

There is nothing like watching a SRW coming at you on a city street with a travel lane width of at least 11’ and have that SRW run with tires on the center line when passing a parked car!

Agree with you on this. Park in the first available spots all the time. Most people don't have a problem with a SRW 350's mirrors, but give them a dually and suddenly they think they need wide-load banners. The thing is, the mirrors stick out further than the wheel wells. It's 100% mental.

[Rocketsled]

Originally Posted by Todd727

The thing is, the mirrors stick out further than the wheel wells. It's 100% mental.

That’s…something I hadn’t considered…thanks for that!

Though to be fair, there are times I park and fold the mirrors in.

[tomd]

Originally Posted by Rocketsled

Fair…and then ‘weight the actual weights, not an estimate’ is the right way to go…but then would the payload sticker be the final word?

Simple, you have to be LESS than all the limits. There is no last word. I traded up to F350 because F250 payload was being exceeded per specs.


Actual is basis, but it you got into a legal snarl a lawsuit my argue rated numbers.
It’s unfortunate they build and advertise truck based on towing flat trailer with four wheels…meaning you could drag a forest of logs, just don’t hitch it so weight is on rear wheels,truck bed, etc.
So you can turn everything into margin of safety, your tires maybe have best margin,but truck payload negative margin= not safe.

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by Dan Lockwood

Funny thing, someone on here was talking about getting a new F-450 for more payload and as fate would have it, my F-350 had mire payload than the F-450 has.

Was your 350 gas and your 450 diesel? That particular inversion is totally common. The engine eats up the payload.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by LHaven

Was your 350 gas and your 450 diesel? That particular inversion is totally common. The engine eats up the payload.

The 450 usually will have a little less payload then a 350 on the exact trim level and options because they both have the same gvwr 14000 lbs.

The weight of the front end components and any extra beefier parts on the 450 will be subtracted from the available payload
At least this is what was explained to me

Don’t think it’s enough to matter though

Edit:I should have read that someone posted same explanation a few posts above

[notanlines]

Truthfully, Rocketsled, you better stay with the SRW. I think you'll be more comfortable with it. The dually tires are a lot for a man to consider, and my wife and granddaughter both had a couple days to get used to it. Take the easy, comfortable path.

[NMRandy]

It is true that a F450 has less payload than a F350, (about 1000 lbs.), when equipped comparably, but I know which one I would be more comfortable with, towing a large 5th wheel. If we are to put ultimate faith in the manufacture specifications, I would ask why the F450 doesn't have a higher GVW than the F350. It is obviously a much more capable truck. (Bigger tires and brakes ect,)

[Javi]

Originally Posted by NMRandy

It is true that a F450 has less payload than a F350, (about 1000 lbs.), when equipped comparably, but I know which one I would be more comfortable with, towing a large 5th wheel. If we are to put ultimate faith in the manufacture specifications, I would ask why the F450 doesn't have a higher GVW than the F350. It is obviously a much more capable truck. (Bigger tires and brakes ect,)

Simple reason, 14000 is the upper limit of Class 3

https://www.thebalancesmb.com/commer...cation-2221025

[JRTJH]

Class 1 vehicle: GVWR under 6000 pounds
Class 2 vehicle: GVWR 6001 - 10000 pounds
Class 3 vehicle: GVWR 10001 - 14000 pounds
Class 4 vehicle: GVWR 14001 - 16000 pounds

Now, few manufacturers are going to build a "half ton truck" that has the same GVWR as their 3/4 ton truck, so half ton trucks usually are 7500 pounds and under while 3/4 ton trucks are closer to 10000 pounds. Recently, manufacturers have "built 3/4 ton truck that are class 3 vehicles (F250 with a 10800 GVWR)

To illustrate the "craziness involved": All manufacturers offer the option of ordering a 3/4 ton with a GVWR of 9900 or 10000 pounds. The reason is because some states designate the cutoff at "Under 10000 pounds" while some states designate the cutoff at "Over 10000 pounds" so depending on which state you live in, you're OK with a 10K GVWR and next state over, you'd have to pay extra for the "class change that 1 pound brings....

It's the same with class 3 vehicles. The 1 ton 350/3500 tops out the class 3 vehicle max. Ford is "reluctant" to move the F450 to the class 4 category because of licensing, commercial designation, insurance and registration issues that recreational owners would face...

So, there's the "artificial GVWR ceiling" on F450 trucks. It's there to keep the "class rating of the lower vehicle so it's cheaper for owners to register, insure and operate the truck in a "private setting". For "commercial use" in businesses those classes mean something entirely different.

Bad part is, it opens the F350/450 to the same arguments that we currently have with the F250/350. You know, the argument that "they're really the same truck, so my F250 can carry as much as an F350 can carry".....

[flybouy]

When I bought my F250 I had the option John wrote about. I chose the 10K registration. Not that I needed it but I'd rather have oit than not and wish I had it if I were unfortunate enough to be involved in anm accident. Just my personal preference. YMMV