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Old 05-07-2021, 09:39 AM   #1
Uzelessknowledge
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New Silverado 2500 gas vs diesel

Hey all
This time next year I plan to get a new truck so we can then get our first RV. Weíve been toying the idea for a year and donít think we want a pull behind travel trailer. Weíre still at least a year out and probably 2 from getting the RV because of personal matters, but trying to learn and research.

What Iím not sure about is gas or diesel. I want a Silverado 2500. I currently have a 1500 and know I want more towing capacity and donít want to feel maxed out. I want to tow and not worry about it. Itíll be a crew cab model that I can put a fifth wheel hitch in the bed.
Whatís the pros and cons?

Weíre looking at 2 fifth wheels.
https://www.keystonerv.com/product/c...oorplans/25RES
https://www.keystonerv.com/product/c...oorplans/30RLS
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Old 05-07-2021, 10:05 AM   #2
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Upgrading from a 1500 to a 2500 will give you "increased towing capacity" but depending on the trim level of your 2500, it may not give you the payload (especially in a diesel) to tow the trailers on your short list. One of them has a GVW of 10K the other a GVW of 11K. You can expect a pin weight around 20% for most fifth wheels, then add the weight of the fifth wheel hitch (a sliding hitch can weigh upwards of 250 pounds, so with an 11K GVW trailer, sitting in your short bed truck, you can plan on potentially having around 2500 pounds of "payload from the trailer and hitch"... Then add passengers, other cargo and you can quickly overload a 3/4 ton diesel truck....

If you're looking at a fifth wheel, I'd urge you to get a 1 ton tow vehicle, especially if you're considering diesel power. The cost difference between a 2500 and a 3500 is "negligible" (usually around $500), the ride is almost identical and the payload can be anywhere from 1000 to 2000 pounds greater (again, depending on trim level)....

There's significantly more to towing any trailer than "GCWR" or "Max Trailer Weight" in an advertising brochure.
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Old 05-07-2021, 10:23 AM   #3
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I agree on the 1 ton option. I prefer diesel but gas engines have come a long way. I think you can get many more miles of engine life out of a Diesel engine along with all the torque benefits. I know some people are quite happy with the gas engines they have and Iím not trying to disparage any of them
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Old 05-07-2021, 10:32 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
Upgrading from a 1500 to a 2500 will give you "increased towing capacity" but depending on the trim level of your 2500, it may not give you the payload (especially in a diesel) to tow the trailers on your short list. One of them has a GVW of 10K the other a GVW of 11K. You can expect a pin weight around 20% for most fifth wheels, then add the weight of the fifth wheel hitch (a sliding hitch can weigh upwards of 250 pounds, so with an 11K GVW trailer, sitting in your short bed truck, you can plan on potentially having around 2500 pounds of "payload from the trailer and hitch"... Then add passengers, other cargo and you can quickly overload a 3/4 ton diesel truck....

If you're looking at a fifth wheel, I'd urge you to get a 1 ton tow vehicle, especially if you're considering diesel power. The cost difference between a 2500 and a 3500 is "negligible" (usually around $500), the ride is almost identical and the payload can be anywhere from 1000 to 2000 pounds greater (again, depending on trim level)....

There's significantly more to towing any trailer than "GCWR" or "Max Trailer Weight" in an advertising brochure.
I think I want to stick with gas but just not sure the pros and cons of it over diesel. Seems like payload. Diesel seems like more maintenance. Does it get better mpg over gas?

In the 2500 the gas and diesel have roughly the same gcwr, but in the 3500 the diesel is almost double. Both have same towing capacity.
https://www.chevrolet.com/truck-life...d-towing-guide

Crunching the number it seems like with 24000lbs gcwr the 2500 is plenty for either one I linked. No?

I have to remember it’ll be my everyday driver. We would take 3-4 day weekends once a month and a week twice a year to travel.
I also can’t do a long box. When I go into the office I have to park in a parking garage.
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Old 05-07-2021, 10:34 AM   #5
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I agree on the 1 ton option. I prefer diesel but gas engines have come a long way. I think you can get many more miles of engine life out of a Diesel engine along with all the torque benefits. I know some people are quite happy with the gas engines they have and I’m not trying to disparage any of them
Thanks
Yes, I understand some about the torque benefits. Especially if we were traveling the Rockies which wouldn’t happen often at all. Not right now or at first. The day job still has to pay the bills.

I also can’t do a long box. When I go into the office I have to park in a parking garage.
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Old 05-07-2021, 10:47 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Uzelessknowledge View Post
I think I want to stick with gas but just not sure the pros and cons of it over diesel. Seems like payload. Diesel seems like more maintenance. Does it get better mpg over gas?

In the 2500 the gas and diesel have roughly the same gcwr, but in the 3500 the diesel is almost double. Both have same towing capacity.
https://www.chevrolet.com/truck-life...d-towing-guide

Crunching the number it seems like with 24000lbs gcwr the 2500 is plenty for either one I linked. No?

I have to remember it’ll be my everyday driver. We would take 3-4 day weekends once a month and a week twice a year to travel.
Crunching the numbers usually doesn't include payload. Every truck has a GVW (all 3/4 ton trucks are limited to 10,000 GVW). The payload is what's left of that 10K when you subtract the weight of the truck. ie: 10,000-7650= 2350 payload... It doesn't much matter if you have a 27K GCWR or a 24K GCWR if the pin weight of a trailer is 2200 pounds and your spouse weighs 150 pounds. By the time you put the 200 pound hitch in the truck and hitch the trailer, your truck is overloaded and there's no "payload left for her"... Even though you're 7000 pounds under the GCWR, your truck can't "within ratings" tow that trailer.

As for "economy of diesel and less maintenance costs for gas" they pretty much "equal each other over the length of ownership"... Most used diesels sell for several thousand more than a comparable gas truck, so the majority of the "up front diesel cost" is recovered at tradein or when the truck is sold.

Today's diesels are significantly different from those of 10 or 20 years ago, so discount much of the "when I had my diesel" that you'll hear....

There are some gas engine options that "fit nicely between older gas trucks and diesel trucks. The 7.3l Ford gas engine is one example of what manufacturers are offering "to fill the wide open gap" between "barely adequate gas trucks and overpowered for most users diesel trucks"....

It's never a "buy this one, it'll always work for everyone" but don't discount the limited payload in the 3/4 ton series and the "desire to upgrade to a little bit larger fifth wheel that nearly everyone goes through a couple years after buying "that one that will get us into the fifth wheel ownership".... I don't know of very many owners who own the same fifth wheel they owned 5 or 6 years ago and none of them "went smaller the second time"....
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Old 05-07-2021, 10:49 AM   #7
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Gcvwr is really sort of useless. Itís not about how many pounds you can drag, itís about how many pounds you can carry.
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Old 05-07-2021, 10:51 AM   #8
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^^^absolutely concur with John^^^

Many (most?) of us started out with either an SUV or 1/2 ton PU and then progressively fought the battle of constantly being over loaded on payload, needing a larger truck, and then wanting an even larger trailer. This may not happen to you, but it seems to happen to most of us. As we got older, our needs changed and our DW's wanted more - space, beds, bathrooms, storage, footroom, appliances, etc. Then it was "toys" - ATV's, motor cycles - an endless list of stuff we wanted to take when we go...

You are very wise to be asking questions now well in advance of your purchase. As John recommends, Payload will almost always be your limiting factor. And 1 ton over 3/4 ton trucks will make an enormous difference in what you can safely and legally tow for very little difference in cost.

Gas Vs Diesel: I started off as a gas guy - purposely bought a new Ford in 1997 because it was the last year for the 460. Spend a whole lot for aftermarket modifications including a gear vendor giving me an 8 speed transmission. That truck was sweet - but it just would not pull as well as a diesel, especially in high elevations of Colorado. Once I switched to the diesel, I will never go back to a gas motor for towing. Others may feel different, but the initial cost is carried through to the value at sale and the operational costs are minor. Modern diesels (say 2017 and newer) are absolute towing beasts! So I recommend a diesel personally. JMHO
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Old 05-07-2021, 10:54 AM   #9
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It's not just the Rockies...it's any grade. The diesel will work less than gas and you will feel the difference. The steeper the grade, the greater the difference. The diesel truck will also have the compression brake which is very nice on downhill grades. The diesel will also get better mileage and will last longer (properly cared for). I've had diesels for over 20 years and I don't think they are higher maintenance.

It's true that the diesel engine will reduce payload and will cost more. But for me the trades offs are a no-brainer.

You will get opinions from both sides of the aisle on a topic like this and will ultimately make your own decision. Both rigs will get you there. Either way...get the 1-ton. They will both pull (tow rating) the same weight but can't carry (payload rating) the same weight.
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Old 05-07-2021, 10:55 AM   #10
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I don't know of very many owners who own the same fifth wheel they owned 5 or 6 years ago and none of them "went smaller the second time"....
I fit 1/2 that statement. I have had my current trailer since 2012, previous one I had 13 1/2 years. I will say that I went bigger first three and downsized on my fourth. Having pulled my previous Jayco with a 3/4 ton gas rig on steroids and current diesel, Iíll take diesel any day.
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Old 05-07-2021, 11:28 AM   #11
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OP I'll stay out of the diesel/gas commentary; I'm a gas guy and leave it at that.

As far as the truck, just get the 1 ton. Nothing about "you gotta have a 1 ton to tow an RV" stuff; just real life. I loved my 1/2 tons and didn't want any HD truck and drug my feet too long simply because I didn't. You won't regret the decision if you are going to tow.

I made the stop off at 3/4 ton but you WILL reach its limits. The one ton costs barely any more, rides about the same and is the same size - it just has a lot more weight carrying capacity which is what it is all about. Forget max tow ratings etc., look straight to the payload number inside the driver door. If you scale it look at the gvwr of the truck minus what the truck weighs. Those numbers will tell you what you can or can't tow.....and you will find a 3/4 ton, even though it looks like a massive truck, will run out of that payload pretty quick when you start looking at 11k 5th wheels.
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Old 05-07-2021, 11:45 AM   #12
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This discussion sounds familiar... hmmmmm
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Old 05-07-2021, 11:51 AM   #13
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Thank you all. Great input and thanks for not making me feel stupid.

I’m glad this drifted into the 3/4 vs 1 ton. Sounds like I have a lot more research.

Without looking at the door sticker, how can I found out payload. I’ve been trying to find some numbers but they’re all max values for lineup.

We think we want a crew can and I know I don’t want a duly.
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Old 05-07-2021, 11:57 AM   #14
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This discussion sounds familiar... hmmmmm
A lot like last year around this time?
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Old 05-07-2021, 12:03 PM   #15
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Thank you all. Great input and thanks for not making me feel stupid.

I’m glad this drifted into the 3/4 vs 1 ton. Sounds like I have a lot more research.

Without looking at the door sticker, how can I found out payload. I’ve been trying to find some numbers but they’re all max values for lineup.

We think we want a crew can and I know I don’t want a duly.
You may be able to go to the Ford, Chevy,Ram towing spec for the particular year your looking at, it’s a separate online guide if you google it made by each manufacturer.
It can give you a GENERAL idea of each model with gear ratio and cab and bed configurations.
Ultimately you should go to a dealer lot and look at a few trucks to see what the door sticker says with different options.
And before you decide on a truck you need to look at the exact truck your buying sticker
You really need to pay attention to the rated gross vehicle weight package because the big three will derate a truck for registration purposes
For example the same truck could be 12400 gvw or 10000 gvw..the sticker will usually list the 10000 gvw as an option for no charge but that effectively cuts your payload capacity in doing so.
They derate it to make the registration fees and possible insurance difference less, although my insurance was the same either way
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Old 05-07-2021, 12:05 PM   #16
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Thank you all. Great input and thanks for not making me feel stupid.

Iím glad this drifted into the 3/4 vs 1 ton. Sounds like I have a lot more research.

Without looking at the door sticker, how can I found out payload. Iíve been trying to find some numbers but theyíre all max values for lineup.

We think we want a crew can and I know I donít want a duly.
There will be a sticker on the Drivers side, in the door that will tell you lots of things. Payload is one of them, and that figure will be for that particular truck. I never wanted a dually either until I bought mine. I had a flat tire on the inner drivers side with 2,000 pounds + kingpin on I 40. I was able to safely pull over and put on the spare. Just my experience but I wonít tow a fiver with SRW anymore.
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Old 05-07-2021, 12:16 PM   #17
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I'm not going to get sucked into this again, but I will say that as long as I pull a 5th wheel I will never own a SRW pickup or a gasoline engine...
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Old 05-07-2021, 12:37 PM   #18
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ALL <note the emphasis> ALL of the Ford, GM and RAM brochures list "base model specifications" for payload and vehicle weight.... Obviously, if you order a base model truck it will weigh significantly less than the same model truck with "all the options"... That leather, seat heaters, electric seats, mirrors, extra thick carpet, and other "stuff" all adds up. I've seen Ford F250 XL model diesel trucks with 2800 pounds of payload and that same F250 diesel when equipped with the Ultimate package have a payload of 1800 pounds... That's a "thousand pounds of luxury" at the expense of "fifth wheel capacity"...

So, with most trucks, you've got to actually see the payload sticker "ON THE DOOR OF THAT TRUCK" (or have the VIN to go to the specifications website) to know what any specific vehicle can carry....

A short "history lesson"... I own a 2015 F250 that was special ordered by someone. The dealership sold it with the "assurance" that it would be just fine with his fifth wheel.... When the truck came in, the payload didn't even come close to what was advertised in the brochure and assured by the dealer/salesman.... The brochure for 2015 "advertised a payload of 3250 pounds for the F250 4x4 short bed... (nobody told him the advertised specs were for the base model XL single cab gas 6.2l engine) when the crew cab Lariat Ultimate diesel came in, the payload was 2188 pounds, over 1000 pounds less than advertised... That's how I ended up with a new truck at an bargain price... He simply couldn't use the truck that he special ordered and that the dealer promised him would be "just fine"....

Looking at the current Chevrolet website specs, you'll find this note on the payload information: These maximum payload ratings are intended for comparison purposes only. Before you buy a vehicle or use it to haul people or cargo, carefully review the Vehicle Loading section of the Owner’s Manual and check the carrying capacity of your specific vehicle on the label on the inside of the driver door jamb.

So, if you end up special ordering your truck, first find a "comparable truck on a dealership lot" and verify the yellow sticker on that vehicle. If you rely on the brochure, you may end up like the guy that expected my truck to be significantly different than it turned out to be.... Works for me with a 31' fifth wheel, would NEVER have worked for his 40' trailer.
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Old 05-07-2021, 12:52 PM   #19
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ALL <note the emphasis> ALL of the Ford, GM and RAM brochures list "base model specifications" for payload and vehicle weight.... Obviously, if you order a base model truck it will weigh significantly less than the same model truck with "all the options"... That leather, seat heaters, electric seats, mirrors, extra thick carpet, and other "stuff" all adds up. I've seen Ford F250 XL model diesel trucks with 2800 pounds of payload and that same F250 diesel when equipped with the Ultimate package have a payload of 1800 pounds... That's a "thousand pounds of luxury" at the expense of "fifth wheel capacity"...

So, with most trucks, you've got to actually see the payload sticker "ON THE DOOR OF THAT TRUCK" (or have the VIN to go to the specifications website) to know what any specific vehicle can carry....
Thanks. Makes perfect sense.
Yeah, I realize and understand the options add up. Which is why I donít want the high county. There are some options I want.
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Old 05-07-2021, 01:03 PM   #20
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Crunching the numbers usually doesn't include payload. Every truck has a GVW (all 3/4 ton trucks are limited to 10,000 GVW). The payload is what's left of that 10K when you subtract the weight of the truck. ie: 10,000-7650= 2350 payload... It doesn't much matter if you have a 27K GCWR or a 24K GCWR if the pin weight of a trailer is 2200 pounds and your spouse weighs 150 pounds. By the time you put the 200 pound hitch in the truck and hitch the trailer, your truck is overloaded and there's no "payload left for her"... Even though you're 7000 pounds under the GCWR, your truck can't "within ratings" tow that trailer.

As for "economy of diesel and less maintenance costs for gas" they pretty much "equal each other over the length of ownership"... Most used diesels sell for several thousand more than a comparable gas truck, so the majority of the "up front diesel cost" is recovered at tradein or when the truck is sold.

Today's diesels are significantly different from those of 10 or 20 years ago, so discount much of the "when I had my diesel" that you'll hear....

There are some gas engine options that "fit nicely between older gas trucks and diesel trucks. The 7.3l Ford gas engine is one example of what manufacturers are offering "to fill the wide open gap" between "barely adequate gas trucks and overpowered for most users diesel trucks"....

It's never a "buy this one, it'll always work for everyone" but don't discount the limited payload in the 3/4 ton series and the "desire to upgrade to a little bit larger fifth wheel that nearly everyone goes through a couple years after buying "that one that will get us into the fifth wheel ownership".... I don't know of very many owners who own the same fifth wheel they owned 5 or 6 years ago and none of them "went smaller the second time"....
Let me start by saying if I was getting a 5th wheel I would go at least 3500 SRW. However, the 3/4 truck statements here just aren't true.
Specifically for GM, a CC 2500 has GVW option of 10650 gas, 11350 diesel. So, not all 3/4 tons are limited to 10k, and the gas vs diesel payload debate is largely eliminated with the increased GVW of the diesel. (My highly optioned gas Sierra has payload of 3385.)
A 1 ton SRW has GVW of 11350 gas or 12100 diesel I believe. Once again pretty much eliminating gas vs diesel payload differences.

The debate is a good one. I just hate these blanket statements that aren't really true anymore. Got to look at the individual TV and know it's capabilities vs one's needs.

Happy Camping
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