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Old 02-18-2021, 05:06 PM   #21
sourdough
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As has been pointed out, if you are worried about gas mileage, budget or not, RVing may not be the thing for you. My suggestion (what I do) is find what you want that does the job and buy it. Don't know that I've ever even thought about gas mileage when I was towing......except when I'm afraid I might run out of fuel...then I have the onboard computer telling me what mileage I'm getting and how for to empty!
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Old 02-18-2021, 05:18 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by pablopwnage View Post
Sorry, additional info as follows

Current TV:
2021 F350 6.7L Platinum CC LB SRW 4X4 (NOT FX4)
3.55 Rear
12,400 GVWR
30,000 GCVWR
4140 Payload

Potential TV:
2021 F350 6.7L Platinum CC LB DRW FX4
4.10 Rear
14,000 GVWR
43,400 GCVWR
5232 Payload
Interesting for sure 1,600# difference in GVWR, 1,092# difference in payloads so what happened to the 508#? Well and extra pair of wheels and tires, and fender extensions, I would guess 100# to 125# per side, still about 250 to 300# unaccounted for. Maybe sunroof, heaver rear axle?
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Old 02-18-2021, 05:36 PM   #23
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You really didn't give us enough info to kind of clarify the difference between the two. 4140 lbs sound pretty high for a F350 SRW unless it is a stripped down version, maybe 2WD, gas engine, etc. You also didn't say whether it was a 2020 or newer model, which possibly has a higher payload number because of the increase in the GVWR of the 2020 and 2021 trucks. Anyway, I have a 2016 F350 Dually that has a payload of 5270 lb. It would be even higher than that if it weren't for the fact that it's a King Ranch...so more "stuff" on it than say an XLT or even a Lariat. Some of the lesser equipped Dually trucks of that era are up closer to 5500 lb of payload...maybe a bit more.

Either way, my Dually is towing a Toy Hauler that has a 20,000 lb GVWR and I've had no issues with it being overloaded from a payload or any other standpoint.

My ol' clunker is long wheel base, crew cab, diesel, 4wd and a stipped XL model and the payload (a 2006) is right at 4K lbs. I think the newer SRW models likely have higher payloads and if an XL series that sounds about right.
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Old 02-18-2021, 06:37 PM   #24
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You'll be towing a little more weight than I am but I've noticed that towing weight isn't as big a factor once you get up above 10,000 - 12,000 pounds.. it's all about frontal area and all these full size 5th wheel have about the same frontal height and width..

My truck has averaged 13.2 MPG over the past 6 years; that's every mile and every gallon that the truck as traveled and every gallon that has been pumped into either tank.. hand calculated on an Excel spread sheet.. for 67648.60 miles.

Towing is 9 to 11.3 depending on wind, towing speed and hills... although I did see 12.6 over 300 miles with a 20-25 mph tail wind..

Running empty on highway is 16.5 to 18.6 again depending on wind, speed and hills.

Around town it pretty much 12-13 regardless
Thanks, Javi. This is really useful information and confirms what I have been seeing in other forums. Just trying to get a feel for what I should expect. I like to know when things are not running to spec.
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Old 02-18-2021, 06:48 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
As has been pointed out, if you are worried about gas mileage, budget or not, RVing may not be the thing for you. My suggestion (what I do) is find what you want that does the job and buy it. Don't know that I've ever even thought about gas mileage when I was towing......except when I'm afraid I might run out of fuel...then I have the onboard computer telling me what mileage I'm getting and how for to empty!
Just so it's clear, I'm not trying to stay under some preconceived cost for RV'ing; RV'ing costs $$$ and I accept that as a part of the whole experience. My main interest with RV'ing is the freedom it will give me and my family to go spend time in amazing places while working remotely from the trailer.

I don't care about gas mileage for any reason other than to understand if I am getting what is expected (because being lower than the expected average tells me that something might be wrong, or that I am doing something wrong).

That being said, I do feel RV'ing gives you WAY more bang for the buck. When you compare monthly payment for the trailer + gas + RV + cost of staying at a state park or RV camp against spending say $10k to stay at a VRBO in Cannon Beach for two weeks, or some overpriced destination rental, I'd say you are getting much more value for your money out of the trailer.
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Old 02-18-2021, 06:52 PM   #26
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Interesting for sure 1,600# difference in GVWR, 1,092# difference in payloads so what happened to the 508#? Well and extra pair of wheels and tires, and fender extensions, I would guess 100# to 125# per side, still about 250 to 300# unaccounted for. Maybe sunroof, heaver rear axle?
Yeah, I think I'd chalk it up to full moonroof, heavier axle, extra tires. Still though, an extra 1092#'s is the difference between being able to tow a Raptor TH and not tow a Raptor TH
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Old 02-18-2021, 07:25 PM   #27
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Just so it's clear, I'm not trying to stay under some preconceived cost for RV'ing; RV'ing costs $$$ and I accept that as a part of the whole experience. My main interest with RV'ing is the freedom it will give me and my family to go spend time in amazing places while working remotely from the trailer.

I don't care about gas mileage for any reason other than to understand if I am getting what is expected (because being lower than the expected average tells me that something might be wrong, or that I am doing something wrong).

That being said, I do feel RV'ing gives you WAY more bang for the buck. When you compare monthly payment for the trailer + gas + RV + cost of staying at a state park or RV camp against spending say $10k to stay at a VRBO in Cannon Beach for two weeks, or some overpriced destination rental, I'd say you are getting much more value for your money out of the trailer.

There is no need to worry about mileage of any kind if you are buying a new truck...it is what it is. I buy them all the time. You absolutely cannot tell what your mileage should be based on what someone else gets; so many variables that it's useless. Buy it, drive it, fill it up and smile with the new RV behind you.
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Old 02-18-2021, 11:02 PM   #28
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There is no need to worry about mileage of any kind if you are buying a new truck...it is what it is. I buy them all the time. You absolutely cannot tell what your mileage should be based on what someone else gets; so many variables that it's useless. Buy it, drive it, fill it up and smile with the new RV behind you.
Well I hope you arenít buying them *all* the time. Sounds expensive! 😅
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Old 02-19-2021, 02:52 AM   #29
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Pablo, thatís what we needed to hear. The 450 will get about 18 on an average day and no more than 65. Jump to 75 and you will need to keep that Visa handy.
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Old 02-19-2021, 03:01 AM   #30
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Hey all,

I am looking at swapping up from an F350 SRW to an F350 DRW to tow a 2021 Raptor 423. I've found a candidate at a nearby dealership and they sent me the payload sticker from inside the door which rates it at 5232lbs max payload.

Am I crazy or does this not seem that much higher than my SRW which is rated at 4140?

Stats for the 5er

GVWR = 19000
Dry Weight = 15185
Hitch Weight = 3390

Should I be looking for a DRW build with more payload than that?
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Pablo, that’s what we needed to hear. The 450 will get about 18 on an average day and no more than 65. Jump to 75 and you will need to keep that Visa handy.
Now that’s a plan.. if I were the op and doing this over ...I would skip over the 350 and go right to a f450... better looking truck imo,tighter turning radius and similar payload. .. not a whole lot of difference in price...I love the looks of these trucks with the wide front stance
I was looking for one in xlt trim or lariot and couldn’t find one when I bought mine .. dealers would list it but it wasn’t on the lot
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Old 02-19-2021, 03:18 AM   #31
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Now that’s a plan.. if I were the op and doing this over ...I would skip over the 350 and go right to a f450... better looking truck imo,tighter turning radius and similar payload. .. not a whole lot of difference in price...I love the looks of these trucks with the wide front stance
I was looking for one in xlt trim or lariot and couldn’t find one when I bought mine .. dealers would list it but it wasn’t on the lot
Keep,in mind the f350 and f450 will have the same gvwr but the f350 will have slightly better payload because of the weight of the beefier front axle and other components on the f450. But you get a better all around tow vehicle with better brakes on the f450

Only downside is no tpms on 450
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Old 02-19-2021, 06:48 AM   #32
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Keep,in mind the f350 and f450 will have the same gvwr but the f350 will have slightly better payload because of the weight of the beefier front axle and other components on the f450. But you get a better all around tow vehicle with better brakes on the f450

Only downside is no tpms on 450
My 2016 F350 Dually King Ranch didn't come with TPMS either.
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Old 02-19-2021, 07:08 AM   #33
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Yeah, this is definitely one of the big reasons for me. Even though I am "under payload" with a minimally loaded rig (propane, no water, no toys in the garage, wife and 1yo daughter, B&W companion 25k in bed), it only leaves me with like ~150 lbs of breathing room which doesn't feel like a lot.

Knowing that the truck is going to be more stable, resist crosswinds, not get upset by air vacuums generated from large vehicles coming from the opposite direction makes me feel like I am going to enjoy the towing experience more. Which is the whole reason my family is getting the 5er in the first place.
Estimating hitch/pin weight with a 5th wheel toyhauler gets interesting. You may find significant differences in pin weight based on having your toys loaded vs an empty garage. Remember, the trailer has to be designed to be safely towed with the garage either empty or full. The garage in our Raptor has a 3000 lb. weight limit sticker (which is silly because the entire trailer payload/carrying capacity is 3,160).

Here's some real numbers from our rig.
2018 Raptor 353TS
GVWR 17,000
Advertised shipping weight 13894
Advertised carry capacity 3106
Advertised hitch weight 3200

I've never weighed the rig empty - but I've weighed it several times when loaded to the gills. The actual pin weight when I am loaded with my Can Am Maverick Sport XRC SxS is 2840. I don't know how heavy the Can Am is, but when it is in the garage it takes almost 400 lbs OFF of the advertised pin weight. This, of course, reduces the pin load on the tow vehicle when the toy is loaded.

My point: If your DRW has over 5K in payload, I suspect you would be fine. We LOVE our Raptor and DRW F350. It pulls like a dream and is super stable. We've also previously owned an F450. I liked the short turning radius, but I sure didn't like the insurance payments. In Arizona, my insurance company required me to insure it as a commercial vehicle. The newer F350 actually has more payload. I am sure you will love a DRW with that big trailer; either would work.

Best of luck.
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Old 02-19-2021, 07:10 AM   #34
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Iíve been considering it as well but Iím keen to stay at the Platinum trim and on the F450 Iím going to limit myself on load with a big TH. Havenít found one in Platinum trim either (does it exist?).

I crunched payload numbers all day yesterday on potential cargo I would take even in full boondocking scenarios and the F350 just gives me that extra breathing room that lets me sleep at night.
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Old 02-19-2021, 08:39 AM   #35
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Well I hope you arenít buying them *all* the time. Sounds expensive! 😅

At last count (from my distant cobwebs) the current one is 39 new vehicles for personal use. Not "all" the time but I guess that term is relative....
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Old 02-19-2021, 08:40 AM   #36
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Estimating hitch/pin weight with a 5th wheel toyhauler gets interesting. You may find significant differences in pin weight based on having your toys loaded vs an empty garage. Remember, the trailer has to be designed to be safely towed with the garage either empty or full. The garage in our Raptor has a 3000 lb. weight limit sticker (which is silly because the entire trailer payload/carrying capacity is 3,160).

Here's some real numbers from our rig.
2018 Raptor 353TS
GVWR 17,000
Advertised shipping weight 13894
Advertised carry capacity 3106
Advertised hitch weight 3200

I've never weighed the rig empty - but I've weighed it several times when loaded to the gills. The actual pin weight when I am loaded with my Can Am Maverick Sport XRC SxS is 2840. I don't know how heavy the Can Am is, but when it is in the garage it takes almost 400 lbs OFF of the advertised pin weight. This, of course, reduces the pin load on the tow vehicle when the toy is loaded.

My point: If your DRW has over 5K in payload, I suspect you would be fine. We LOVE our Raptor and DRW F350. It pulls like a dream and is super stable. We've also previously owned an F450. I liked the short turning radius, but I sure didn't like the insurance payments. In Arizona, my insurance company required me to insure it as a commercial vehicle. The newer F350 actually has more payload. I am sure you will love a DRW with that big trailer; either would work.

Best of luck.
Interesting! I was having a hell of a time finding any kind of math for how rear load in the garage translated at the pin. I know Toy Haulers are built with that use case in mind, but couldn't find many threads with tangible numbers or how that affected chucking/porpoising at the hitch. Thanks for this info!

I don't think we will be putting heavy toys in the rear (at least in the beginning of ownership). The washer/dryer combo will only add 300# to the rear so I don't imagine I will see that translate to much lightening at the pin. But it's also nice to know that boondocking with full fresh tanks and a Razr in the rear won't make my pin weight go crazy (my wife want's one really badly).
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Old 02-19-2021, 08:41 AM   #37
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At last count (from my distant cobwebs) the current one is 39 new vehicles for personal use. Not "all" the time but I guess that term is relative....
That's a truck for every year I've been alive. You're an f'ing legend
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Old 02-19-2021, 11:41 AM   #38
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Fifth wheel toyhaulers are not "critical" to balance. There's enough pin weight that with the rear garage loaded or unloaded, there's sufficient pin weight to tow safely.

The same is not always true with conventional trailer toyhaulers. We have some members (5 or 6 years ago) with previous "technology toy haulers" who actually could not load their garage without "unloading the tongue weight". A couple of them actually had to resort to loading sand bags under the front bed storage space just to increase the tongue weight enough to get it back up to 9 or 10 % of the trailer weight.

The same holds true for trailers with a "front garage" that's in the bunk room. Loading 1000 pounds of motorcycles or a ATV and a dirt bike in the front will "load up the tongue weight by almost the total cargo weight. Frightening stuff if you're not expecting it...

Those floorplans, I'd guess, were a modification of an existing trailer floorplan with no consideration of axle position on the frame build. Keystone usually designs a floorplan or a series of floorplans that use one "standardized chassis model" and, if anything, they "cut off 3 or 5 or 7 feet of the rear chassis rail for trailers "in that series"...

My guess would be that years ago, when toyhaulers were first becomming popular, Keystone engineered a trailer using an existing chassis, didn't move the axle position, realized after several of those models got into the field, that there's "more to trailer cargo positioning" than they initially suspected...

Today's tongue type toy haulers are not nearly as "sensitive to weight placement" as earlier models, and fifth wheel toy haulers are long enough with sufficient pin weight compared to trailer mass, that loading the garage doesn't affect towability nearly as much as it once did in travel trailer type toyhaulers....

I'd suspect that there are some "ultra-lite toyhaulers" that do still have dramatic differences in weight distribution adjustments based on towing with the toys or towing without the toys.
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Old 02-19-2021, 12:47 PM   #39
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At last count (from my distant cobwebs) the current one is 39 new vehicles for personal use. Not "all" the time but I guess that term is relative....
Amateur


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That's a truck for every year I've been alive. You're an f'ing legend
Keep at it, you'll catch him..
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Old 02-19-2021, 12:56 PM   #40
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Amateur


Keep at it, you'll catch him..
Well two new trucks in a single year is definitely helping to close the gap!
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