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Old 01-31-2021, 11:22 AM   #41
LHaven
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Again, the dry weight is a totally meaningless number except to the guy who transports the rig from the manufacturer to the dealer. Your rig was already well beyond its dry weight the day you picked it up from the dealer. Use the max weight for your calculations.

Now that you've found the right sticker, let me suggest to you this online worksheet. You'll have to get the numbers from various sources (for one, you'll have to crawl underneath your rear bumper and read a label on the underside of the hitch). Once you've worked through it, and once you've familiarized yourself with "typical" payload numbers for 1500, 2500, 3500, etc. class vehicles, you'll develop a feel for what numbers are important, which ones aren't, and whether a given rig is likely to be able to pull a given trailer within limits.
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Old 01-31-2021, 11:22 AM   #42
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Thank you. Point well made and appreciated. We are pick-up truck shopping. Definitely looking at one ton and strongly considering diesel.
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Old 01-31-2021, 01:32 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Campingwithkids8 View Post
Thank you. Point well made and appreciated. We are pick-up truck shopping. Definitely looking at one ton and strongly considering diesel.

Gerard keep in mind those weight numbers will still be important with the 1 ton and they will have that payload sticker inside the door as well. Remember also that a diesel will drop your payload significantly (figure 500lb. minimum). If buying a diesel a 1 ton will be the right choice.
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Old 01-31-2021, 02:58 PM   #44
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One ton pickup payload capacity is all over the place. The higher level of trim, the less payload. 4x4, diesel, crew cab eat payload. Getting the truck you want and the truck you needs is a balancing act. If you need seats, the crew cab is a must but give up the King Ranch or Laramie levels of trim. Do you need 4x4? I don't but have it and it adds a bunch of weight which subtracts from potential payload. The diesel subtracts from payload but gives you pulling power. Determine if you might be going bigger in the future and buy for the potential of that bigger trailer as trucks cost enough not everyone can buy a new one with ever upgrade in camper.
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Old 01-31-2021, 03:31 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by wiredgeorge View Post
Do you need 4x4? I don't but have it and it adds a bunch of weight which subtracts from potential payload.
One hangup there is that your dealer may have a problem finding the truck you want without 4x4. We ended up with 4x4 because of that.
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Old 01-31-2021, 03:48 PM   #46
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One ton pickup payload capacity is all over the place. The higher level of trim, the less payload. 4x4, diesel, crew cab eat payload. Getting the truck you want and the truck you needs is a balancing act. If you need seats, the crew cab is a must but give up the King Ranch or Laramie levels of trim. Do you need 4x4? I don't but have it and it adds a bunch of weight which subtracts from potential payload. The diesel subtracts from payload but gives you pulling power. Determine if you might be going bigger in the future and buy for the potential of that bigger trailer as trucks cost enough not everyone can buy a new one with ever upgrade in camper.
The following applies at least to a Ford.....Higher trim, cab config, 2WD vs. 4WD, bed length, engine option and also a potential GVWR 'paper derate' (like I have), eat payload.

The payload on my modestly equipped F350 XLT is 3,271 pounds. This is somewhat due to the paper de-rating of my vehicle's GVWR capacity (for licensing purposes) to 10K. De-rating is not a result of shortcuts in components (frames, brakes, suspension etc.) but rather is done done due to potential registration $$ savings. This is actually listed as option 68D on the Ford build site.

To be clear, available payload is easily calculated. It is your truck's physical weight, subtracted from it's door sticker GVWR. When the truck comes off the assembly line, they weigh it (and for Ford they also assume a full tank of fuel) and subtract it from GVWR. What's left goes on the sticker as 'cargo carrying capacity' (payload). In my case, since my sticker GVWR was de-rated to 10K, I lost some legally usable payload

So, how much GVWR should your truck have without any type of paper de-rate? In looking at the build guide for the 2019 Ford, I think I was only reduced by 200 lbs from what MY max should be. If I'm reading the guide correctly, a 160" wb, 4x2 with a 6.2L should be rated at 10.2K GVWR. Conversely, a longbed 4x4 with diesel can be obtained with an 11.4K GVWR.

The moral to the story: if looking at a truck on the lot, open the driver door AND LOOK at the yellow/white sticker to see what you have to work with. If ordering, be familiar with the build guide for each vehicle and it's potential delimiters with regard to GVWR.
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Old 01-31-2021, 04:12 PM   #47
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The following applies at least to a Ford.....Higher trim, cab config, 2WD vs. 4WD, bed length, engine option and also a potential GVWR 'paper derate' (like I have), eat payload.

The payload on my modestly equipped F350 XLT is 3,271 pounds. This is somewhat due to the paper de-rating of my vehicle's GVWR capacity (for licensing purposes) to 10K. De-rating is not a result of shortcuts in components (frames, brakes, suspension etc.) but rather is done done due to potential registration $$ savings. This is actually listed as option 68D on the Ford build site.

To be clear, available payload is easily calculated. It is your truck's physical weight, subtracted from it's door sticker GVWR. When the truck comes off the assembly line, they weigh it (and for Ford they also assume a full tank of fuel) and subtract it from GVWR. What's left goes on the sticker as 'cargo carrying capacity' (payload). In my case, since my sticker GVWR was de-rated to 10K, I lost some legally usable payload

So, how much GVWR should your truck have without any type of paper de-rate? In looking at the build guide for the 2019 Ford, I think I was only reduced by 200 lbs from what MY max should be. If I'm reading the guide correctly, a 160" wb, 4x2 with a 6.2L should be rated at 10.2K GVWR. Conversely, a longbed 4x4 with diesel can be obtained with an 11.4K GVWR.

The moral to the story: if looking at a truck on the lot, open the driver door AND LOOK at the yellow/white sticker to see what you have to work with. If ordering, be familiar with the build guide for each vehicle and it's potential delimiters with regard to GVWR.

When a member is trying his best to figure out weights and keep his family safe, your above post trying to muddy the waters with "I wish I had" just ends up confusing folks which isn't helpful IMO. All you had to do is jump to your last paragraph and repeat what everyone else has tried to point out.
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Old 01-31-2021, 05:33 PM   #48
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Sorry, not my intent. Delete it, youíre on the site team.

Reply after reply of the same rehash, post after post, and Iím the one muddying the water. Thanks for the help over the last several months, but thatís it for me. Iíll lurk and be happy.
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Old 01-31-2021, 05:57 PM   #49
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My comments weren't meant to make you "lurk". They were meant to make you think - nothing more. Please read all the posts from the OP. They are trying their best to make a safe, intelligent decision on a tow vehicle with a large family and a tragic history. Current tow vehicle and large family dictate a safe approach is required and our comments/observations have to be tempered by that reality. Comments about "derating", how much his truck "should have" if it weren't for "xyz" aren't helpful, just more confusing (muddying the waters)....and meaningless since the weights dictated are what they are. I would hope that you can see where I'm coming from and look forward to your future contributions.
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Old 01-31-2021, 06:00 PM   #50
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I have one of those striped down 2 bucket seat Van's. Itd a 2020 long wheelbase cargo van it had windows on the side doors and rear doors. It is a 2020 GM 3500 cargo van .the payload sticker is #3729 lbs I dont know what it weighs empty but I built a raised floor and some shelf s in it and also had a few hundred pounds added weight took it to a cat scale and with 2 people and a full tank of gas it weighted 7680 .it seem like you loose a lot of pay load with all the seats in a van
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Old 01-31-2021, 06:12 PM   #51
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I guess my only point was as you said - the last paragraph. I was simply trying to provide example(s) on how various factors can impact things, as an add-on to the prior post. I wasn't trying to add confusion to someone 'trying to keep their family safe'. Apparently I wasn't able to convey things in a meaningful and appropriate manner. My apologies.
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Old 02-04-2021, 08:17 AM   #52
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I read all the way through the replies and I was in this position 1 year ago. We wanted a 5th wheel and decided on a great model for us. Since I now needed to buy a truck, shopping started. I only wanted to buy one truck that would tow this 5th wheel and then if we went bigger, would take care of that also. We settled on a new Ram 3500 SRW Diesel, that will pull anything we decide to purchase. If you look around, I got mine for the price of a 2500, because everyone was looking for a 2500 so I got a deal on my 3500. No regrets on purchase, and it is my daily driver.
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Old 02-04-2021, 09:14 AM   #53
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I guess my only point was as you said - the last paragraph. I was simply trying to provide example(s) on how various factors can impact things, as an add-on to the prior post. I wasn't trying to add confusion to someone 'trying to keep their family safe'. Apparently I wasn't able to convey things in a meaningful and appropriate manner. My apologies.
Mark,
You don't need to apologize. I have read all of the posts (as suggested). I believe that pointing out to a new member the fact that some trucks on the dealer's lot could be "paper de-rated" for reduced tax and licensing purposes would be highly appropriate. I have encountered owners who were not even aware that this was a possibility. As you correctly pointed out, look at the stickers, get the facts, and make an informed decision.

We all have compassion for the OP and wish him the very best.
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Old 02-04-2021, 07:11 PM   #54
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Chevy Express

I tow passport rk3100 ultralight
With a 14 express 3500 standard wheel base.
Same tow rating as yours but my payload is 3342
Trailer is GVW 7800 I think (It's covered)
Go by Trailer GVW NOT DRY WEIGHT
We have traveled long distance month long trips with ease.
Just 2 adults in the van however
Scale had me @ just over 13k combined.
Well with in the limits
Look for an ultralight Trailer
Go by the door sticker
Not the owners manual.
Door sticker has the correct information for each vehicle it takes in consideration of everything from the factory.
Then add your cargo (people stuff coolers ect)
Hitch around 100 to 150 lbs.
Go from there.
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Old 02-04-2021, 09:14 PM   #55
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Campingwithkids8...
With eight kids, you pickup truck option won't work.
I see no reason that a van wouldn't be an appropriate tow vehicle. My neighbor tows a trailer that size with a one ton Chevy van.
The other option is to just tow a cargo trailer. You were asking about camping weren't you? RVing and camping are way different activities. Don't think of camping as a downgrade. It may be just what your family needs.
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Old 02-05-2021, 12:26 PM   #56
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I've not commented on this thread because it's so controversial. To make an accurate response requires researching lots of reference materials. NHTSA has some very good PDF files that address payload. here is a link to one of them.

https://one.nhtsa.gov/cars/PROBLEMS/...wing/index.htm
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Old 02-05-2021, 12:36 PM   #57
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are the 3500 vans on their own unique chassis? I remember the old e350's with powerstrokes were pretty good tow vehicles for some middle sized weights like atvs and cargo haulers etc.
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Old 02-05-2021, 01:03 PM   #58
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One thing Blu said that I like: “ Don't think of camping as a downgrade. It may be just what your family needs.”
Both my kids (40 now) will never forget the countless nights camping with us along with all their friends. I’ll bet this family could do nicely with just a cargo trailer rigged for gear and just maybe a nice place for Mom and Dad to sleep.
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Old 02-05-2021, 01:56 PM   #59
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One hangup there is that your dealer may have a problem finding the truck you want without 4x4. We ended up with 4x4 because of that.
That is why my F350 is a 4X4 as well even though I have never had the urge to lock the hubs and use it. I don't drive off road and see no white stuff so it is pretty pointless but in the Texas Hill Country, I believe there must be a law that says all heavy duty trucks have to be 4X4.
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Old 02-05-2021, 04:28 PM   #60
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In my experience, the 4WD is free. My old 4X4s have always sold for more because they are 4WD. At least as much as that option cost when new.
My truck cost me $7k when i bought it about two years ago and I have put about $4k into it to make it reliable and up to snuff. New is a word I find difficult due to my inability to make payments on a $60K truck. Most everything we own is older but in great shape and if I had my druthers would have bought a V10 2WD long bed on the cheap but couldn't find one. I might have settled for the newer 6.2L gasser but finding one at a decent price (my price range) wasn't possible. This is before the covid. I could have picked up a 5.4L gasser 350 but that isn't enough engine imho.

And for Danny: Thought markcee's comments about de-rated heavy duty trucks were on the mark (pun intended) and scolding someone for taking part and not being a wise guy or know it all but trying to add to a discussion were not very well done. Danny, you have had more "when I was a lad" stories than most (except me of course) and no one has called you out for getting off topic. In fact, off topic or bad info on this forum is not unusual. It is a FORUM for the exchange of RV relatated bloviating so take it easy on markcee, for goodness sake.
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