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Old 01-31-2021, 06:52 AM   #21
jasin1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notanlines View Post
"Yours could very well be less because of the weight of all the seats and extra windows"
Of all the posts I have read in 20 years on various sites, no one ever one time told me I had to subtract the weight of the seats and the windows in any of my trucks...
I'm calling baloney on this one.
Lol I said that because they posted a picture of the towing payload for gmc 3500 van..... it did not say a passenger van or a conversion van ...just a van. It would make sense that a empty metal van with two bucket seats would have a higher payload capacity then a van with 3 extra bench seats and a wall of heavy glass all around it.
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Old 01-31-2021, 06:53 AM   #22
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Lol I said that because they posted a picture of the towing payload for gmc 2500 van..... it did not say a passenger van or a conversion van ...just a van. It would make sense that a empty metal van with two bucket seats would have a higher payload capacity then a van with 3 extra bench seats and a wall of heavy glass all around it.
No different then a crew cab truck with sunroof vs plain roof
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Old 01-31-2021, 06:57 AM   #23
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Of all the posts Iíve read on this site for the last 7 months or so I would think the general consensus for payload capacity is the base weight of vehicle plus ALL the options subtracted from gvwr ...including extra windows( sunroof ) or navigation system or any thing at all that adds weight to a base vehicle
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Old 01-31-2021, 06:58 AM   #24
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Anyway... I didnít mean it to be a controversial statement ...not trying to argue
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Old 01-31-2021, 07:26 AM   #25
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It's not a controversial statement. Just one that far too many people don't take into consideration...

The "footnote" in nearly every vehicle brochure will state: *base model vehicle".

A "luxury equipped vehicle" is not a "base model vehicle". A diesel equipped vehicle is not a "base model vehicle", leather seats and heavy electric seats are not "base model vehicle", running boards are not "base model vehicle".

In other words, for most "brochure charts" they use a "stripped down smallest engine, no optional equipment model" to get the "maximum benefit for the chart". That's not a "limited edition" or a "high option base model" depiction....
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Old 01-31-2021, 07:43 AM   #26
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It's not a controversial statement. Just one that far too many people don't take into consideration...

The "footnote" in nearly every vehicle brochure will state: *base model vehicle".

A "luxury equipped vehicle" is not a "base model vehicle". A diesel equipped vehicle is not a "base model vehicle", leather seats and heavy electric seats are not "base model vehicle", running boards are not "base model vehicle".

In other words, for most "brochure charts" they use a "stripped down smallest engine, no optional equipment model" to get the "maximum benefit for the chart". That's not a "limited edition" or a "high option base model" depiction....
We had a 96 chevy express1500 high top conversion van when the kids were small for vacation travel
It had a rear ac unit ,heavy portable television,vcr, electric seat in back that converted to a bed, tons of velour and carpet. Big tinted picture windows on the side.2nd row bucket seats Ground effect spoilers.. everything you could imagine.. don’t even know what the payload capacity was but it didn’t have much “ freeboard” lol it looked like a overloaded boat getting ready to slip beneath the waves
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Old 01-31-2021, 07:47 AM   #27
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Most gm Van's have a 1000 lb tounge wt limit. Better to load the van with all the family and what you think you would have in the van .go get it weighed and subtract that from 16000 lbs combination weight .that would giv you a pretty good idea of what trailer you could tow.but you would still have to stay under the tounge wt ratings..
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Old 01-31-2021, 08:07 AM   #28
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I seem to have been mistaken that the OP was listing his cargo capacity from his sticker, not from his imagination. That is why I wondered about that statement. Factory equipment is just that.
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Old 01-31-2021, 08:08 AM   #29
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I seem to have been mistaken that the OP was listing his cargo capacity from his sticker, not from his imagination. That is why I wondered about that statement. Factory equipment is just that.
No worries... Iím not the best at articulating my point
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Old 01-31-2021, 09:09 AM   #30
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OP my sincerest condolences on your tragic loss. Your desire to return to some sort of normalcy is certainly understandable. In your quest to return to a pre tragedy state don't let that desire cloud your better judgement from a safety perspective; and I think you are trying very hard to do that.

The van has a max tow rating (always too high) of 9300lbs. The RV weighs 9640lbs. = overweight. At 9640lbs. the trailer tongue would be 1253lbs. at 13% vs a max tongue weight for the van of 1000lbs. = overweight. Since we apparently don't have a payload sticker look at it this way; the gvw of the van is 9600lbs. You're thinking your payload is 3142 based on the generic "chart" you copied. In fact your payload will be your gvw (9600) less the weight of the truck. It's been a long time since I dealt with vans so don't know those numbers off the top of my head and never dealt with a 15 passenger bus anyway, BUT, even a 1 ton pickup truck will come in well in excess generally of 7k lbs. if it has anything at all on it. So just taking that, let's say 7200lbs. for a 15 passenger bus and a gvw of 9600lbs = 2400lbs. payload not 3142 (brochures are sales tools, not to reality or to keep you safe). Now;

That vehicle requires a weight distribution hitch if the trailer is over 4000lbs. (we are ignoring the fact that it is overweight for the moment for illustrative purposes). Add 120lbs. for a good wdh, which will be imperative with that kind of combo. Previously it was estimated at 1000lbs. for 9 people (very conservative and the kids will keep growing). You added 500lbs. for "misc" which I also think is conservative if not dangerous. We're now at 1620; 1000 + 120 + 500 = 1620. We're now at approx. 2875 required for payload vs. an estimated 2400. EXACTLY where you do NOT want to be with a bus full of children - and we are using very conservative, if not unrealistically low, numbers. If you err on the side of anything you want it to be safety and a safety cushion - not pushing the envelope with a bus full of kids.

I know you said DW said she is totally against 2 vehicles which then to me, means she is against this combination because IMO it places you and the entire family in danger. I know you desperately want to return to a state of normalcy but again, reality must trump everything here to make sure you return in a safe manner. Wishing you the best..
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Old 01-31-2021, 09:26 AM   #31
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Well DW has changed her mind as I’ve presented options of smaller trailers. Looks like we are in the market for a full size pickup truck. Need to begin researching that. I’m sure there is no shortage opinions on that topic.
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Old 01-31-2021, 09:29 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Campingwithkids8 View Post
Well DW has changed her mind as Iíve presented options of smaller trailers. Looks like we are in the market for a full size pickup truck. Need to begin researching that. Iím sure there is no shortage opinions on that topic.
Good to hear... the opinions on this site offered by other more experienced members are backed by YEARS of experience and knowledge.. your in good hands with them .. Iím learning everyday from them
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Old 01-31-2021, 09:33 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Campingwithkids8 View Post
Well DW has changed her mind as Iíve presented options of smaller trailers. Looks like we are in the market for a full size pickup truck. Need to begin researching that. Iím sure there is no shortage opinions on that topic.
There sure isnt

Once you have decidied on how many; seats you need, It gets easier. If your looking at 3/4 ton trucks then I would just skip and go to the 1 ton for the increased payload and very little extra money. DONT let the salesperson tell you "it will tow anything" get the numbers and figure out the PAYLOAD and its more important than the GCVWR.
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Old 01-31-2021, 09:45 AM   #34
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Well DW has changed her mind as Iíve presented options of smaller trailers. Looks like we are in the market for a full size pickup truck. Need to begin researching that. Iím sure there is no shortage opinions on that topic.

The opinions on trucks will all hinge on what exactly you plan to do with it. I'm not aware of any pickup that has room for 9 people so sharing the plan for the truck will greatly enhance to ability of folks to help.

I'm assuming you are looking at 2 vehicles now? IMO that is a good thing. For a 9600lb. trailer a 3/4 ton will do but since a 1 ton costs so little more than the 3/4 I would be looking at those - especially since you have such a large family. Brands are irrelevant, the Big 3 all make comparable trucks so it just becomes a personal choice. Then it will be gas vs diesel - hold on for that conversation!
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Old 01-31-2021, 09:53 AM   #35
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"Yours could very well be less because of the weight of all the seats and extra windows"
Of all the posts I have read in 20 years on various sites, no one ever one time told me I had to subtract the weight of the seats and the windows in any of my trucks...
I'm calling baloney on this one.
Most likely that's ready been done with a reduced payload. I don't think it meant the OP would have to account for them in his calculations.
Also the difference between towing a 5000lb rv & your current choice is the current one is double that weight (9845lbs if I recall) so most every number used to calculate will also be double.
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Old 01-31-2021, 10:18 AM   #36
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Most likely that's ready been done with a reduced payload. I don't think it meant the OP would have to account for them in his calculations.
Also the difference between towing a 5000lb rv & your current choice is the current one is double that weight (9845lbs if I recall) so most every number used to calculate will also be double.
Yes I agree.. Iím not good at articulating.. my point was the original payload number was not from the sticker on the ops van it was from a brochure that only listed ď 3500 extended vanĒ I surmised that was for a base,empty cargo extended van with two bucket seats.
The opís payload would most probably be less then that on account of it being optioned for a 15 person passenger van with all the extra bench seats and windows. I wanted them to understand that there number would be less.. need to weigh the van and subtract from gvwr to get payload if not listed on the actual van itself.
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Old 01-31-2021, 10:20 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notanlines View Post
"Yours could very well be less because of the weight of all the seats and extra windows"
Of all the posts I have read in 20 years on various sites, no one ever one time told me I had to subtract the weight of the seats and the windows in any of my trucks...
I'm calling baloney on this one.
Then again, it's the first time I've ever seen someone use a bus as a tow vehicle, and it's not clear how the numbers in the manual are derived.

The OP should make one more stab at finding the actual yellow sticker, which (unlike the manual) provides the actual payload number for HIS vehicle, as configured from the factory. Sometimes, it can be as easy as remembering to look on the door frame as well as on the edge of the door.
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Old 01-31-2021, 10:55 AM   #38
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Iíve noticed that some members on here are good at responses made up of a few sentences that get right to the point and usually end with a ďzingerĒ and some that explain things in a folksy down home comforting style,my favorite are the longer detailed common sense mini essays( I get a lot of info from them) .....mine are more like a game of charades combined with sentence fragments.lol
Iím a work in progress though and will continue to better myself everyday
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Old 01-31-2021, 11:04 AM   #39
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So I did find the yellow sticker.
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnIbjbY_fqzcgedz4MSLl5BGHzrNfQ

The trailer dry weight is 7500 lbs.

I’m still planning pickup but learning from this discussion on the van.
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Old 01-31-2021, 11:17 AM   #40
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Here is a link to the 3400qd;

https://www.rvusa.com/rv-guide/2020-...0qd-gt-tr44948

The 752x dry weight is meaningless and can't be used for anything. It changed as soon as it left the manufacturer. The listed tongue weight in the specs is meaningless - it changed as soon as they added battery/propane etc. The only number that means anything weight wise is the gvw of the trailer; dry weight + carrying capacity = 9640. Note it has just a bit over 2k lbs. in carrying capacity (payload). With 9 people you will use that up I figure.

Edit: yes, that is the payload sticker that was discussed. It shows a payload of 2835. With that it would indicate your van weighs less than 6800lbs. which seems light to me but I've not dealt with vans in a LONG time. Before I even thought I was getting close to that payload number on the sticker I would have that van on a scale to see exactly what that vehicle weight really is.
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