Short Term Dry Camping Solutions

[jmgreer1]

We recently purchased a new TT. The whole thing is foreign to me, camping in general. I've spent a good bit of time in youtube and other media trying to nail down the easiest way to making short-overnight stays mostly comfortable.

I know that when not connected to shore power, the only thing working in the TT are the DC systems (lights, pumps, heater, water heater, etc.) but receptacles, TV, and others are not as they are run on the AC circuits.

There are lots of videos of people spending $1,000s of dollars to add batteries, inverter chargers, etc. and there are others who simply add an inverter with an extension cord.

I'm looking to see what others are doing here. My goal would be to have power to charge phones, make coffee, let the kids watch TV and whatnot while parked overnight in a walmart, cracker barrel, or something similar.

[Lee]

Hi,

If all you are wanting to power are the low wattage items you listed...... then a small 2kw invertor generator would be the ticket!!!! They are quiet and relatively light weight. It probably won't run your A/C, also won't run say,... the microwave and a hairdryer at the same time.

Also, you would need to secure it ,.... no matter where you are camped as they have a habit of "walking off" in the middle of the night.

[JRTJH]

The MAJOR issue that the didn't address is the source of power to run an inverter...

The OP's trailer likely has one GP24 or GP31 hybrid battery. He simply won't be making a pot of coffee with an 1100 watt percolator or drip coffee maker after running the furnace all night and the kids watched 2 hours of TV before bed with the limited power charge in most battery banks.

I'd suspect that to use power "with little/no conservation" as he suggests, he's going to need either a significantly heavy/expensive battery bank or a small generator in the 1600/1700 continuous output range.

I agree with Lee. I wouldn't attempt it with batteries and inverters, rather I'd recommend an inverter generator that will provide 1500 watts of power for 6-8 hours on a gallon of gas. Conversely, a 2000 watt inverter will provide 1500 watts of power for 20-30 minutes on a GP31 battery (until it's DEAD) or for 15-20 minutes until it's at 50%, the maximum recommended discharge capacity.....

So, in short, depending on the battery bank, trying to accomplish his stated objectives is, at best, very optimistic and likely difficult to achieve without some significant conservation measures (like making the choice of having coffee or having heat through the night). A "refuelable generator and a supply of gas" is much more a workable solution than an inverter and a "HUGE" battery bank.....

[foldbak]

Originally Posted by Lee

Hi,

If all you are wanting to power are the low wattage items you listed...... then a small 2kw inverter generator would be the ticket!!!! They are quiet and relatively light weight. It probably won't run your A/C, also won't run say,... the microwave and a hairdryer at the same time.

Also, you would need to secure it ,.... no matter where you are camped as they have a habit of "walking off" in the middle of the night.

Jm is right. Chain it to your bumper! They do walk off. I would even chain it up when staying in a RV park. We go to Doran Beach several times a year and have seen up to 5 gens get up and walk away at night.

[jmgreer1]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

The MAJOR issue that the didn't address is the source of power to run an inverter...

The OP's trailer likely has one GP24 or GP31 hybrid battery. He simply won't be making a pot of coffee with an 1100 watt percolator or drip coffee maker after running the furnace all night and the kids watched 2 hours of TV before bed with the limited power charge in most battery banks.

I'd suspect that to use power "with little/no conservation" as he suggests, he's going to need either a significantly heavy/expensive battery bank or a small generator in the 1600/1700 continuous output range.

I agree with Lee. I wouldn't attempt it with batteries and inverters, rather I'd recommend an inverter generator that will provide 1500 watts of power for 6-8 hours on a gallon of gas. Conversely, a 2000 watt inverter will provide 1500 watts of power for 20-30 minutes on a GP31 battery (until it's DEAD) or for 15-20 minutes until it's at 50%, the maximum recommended discharge capacity.....

So, in short, depending on the battery bank, trying to accomplish his stated objectives is, at best, very optimistic and likely difficult to achieve without some significant conservation measures (like making the choice of having coffee or having heat through the night). A "refuelable generator and a supply of gas" is much more a workable solution than an inverter and a "HUGE" battery bank.....

I know the power tradeoff between more battery is extra weight. I guess I'm surprised at the most is that there is only approximately 20 minutes of working power until the recommended depth of discharge is reached. I thought maybe the addition of one battery would supply enough for an overnight stay but evidently not. A small 2000w inverter generator was one of my thoughts. I had hoped for more efficiency in appliances for a single overnight stay. .....and get a french press and kettle to make coffee.

[Ken / Claudia]

You could could go out and buy a 200,000 Motorhome and still RV living is not living in a stick built home. There are trade offs no matter what, from your normal routine.
Having 2 6 volt batteries will over double your time on 12v than you currently have, cost about 250 with battery boxs. Add a generator for maybe 400 to 1200 bucks and now you would be good to stay as long as you have gas. Using a gal. of gas every 8 hours of genny use is a great deal. Way better than no power.
If camping anywhere near a store/restaurant, Many times we walk over to visit them for a cup instead of starting the genny.
Many changes from normal life styles with use of water, electricity will solve some issues. Example never leave water running, ever. Washing dishes turn it on/off throughout the task. Some just let it run non stop until done. You wasted a bunch of water and electricity doing so. Turn on a light when needed and off when not. If your not in the bedroom, make sure the light(s) are off. Those are just a few. That do not cost money to fix, just change your habits.
You mentioned TV, do not use it until you have the genny running, you want news, turn on the radio or go without for a few hours.

[sourdough]

In your first post you said that camping in general was foreign to you. The realities of "camping" (no RV) is that you get by in a minimalist style. No modern conveniences, cook over an open fire, sleep on the ground, freeze, roast, sweat etc.

There are various levels of RV camping whether boondocking or full hookups. Boondocking, which is similar to being in a Walmart parking lot, provides you with a roof over your head, hot water for a shower, a place to hold the dirty water, a bathroom, DC lighting and an LP stove to cook on. FAR better than sleeping on the ground freezing while soaking wet. Everything above will work on battery power (reasonable usage) and your propane system. What you don't have are the "modern" conveniences powered by 120vac. When you get to where you have to have that you have bypassed "boondocking" in the purest sense and have moved to the requirement, however it is provided, of AC power to give you home (city) comforts.

AC power has to come from somewhere and if you don't have commercial power you have the choice of battery banks with inverters charged by some source of AC power. Some use large solar arrays on their trailer or stacked around the unit. Others use a generator sized to provide what they need. Unless you are a true blue, died in the wool, "I'll never leave the backwoods" type of person (as well as willing to shell out thousands of dollars) IMO the solar arrays are too costly, take up too much space and not required. Others have pointed out a generator - that's the route I would go. Size it to fit your needs; when I boondocked (I don't any longer) I carried a 7500 watt generator; you don't need that....and it weighed what seemed like a ton. Plus, if you are going to spend any time at all without AC power to keep the batteries charged I would wholeheartedly recommend that you 1) get at least 2 batteries and 2) make sure they are true deep cycle batteries and not marine deep cycle (which I'm sure you have).

[jmgreer1]

So, from what I've heard so far, first is to just turn things off and be conservation minded. Use things that don't use power. IE. for coffee use a press (the coffee maker pulls 1500watts...) Second, add a second battery so as to have ample supply for water pumps, roof fans, lights, and furnace fans. Third, easiest thing is to bring a generator and use only when necessary for those creature comforts.

Anything else? I'm not looking for solutions that would be anything more than a stay-over night while on the road to somewhere if needed.

[sourdough]

Sounds like you're getting pretty close. The key thing is management of your power resources. When they die you will then move to "boondocking" except you'll have 4 walls but not much more (except propane). My daughter likes her coffee press at home but when we boondocked we just used a percolator either on the stove, campfire or an old Coleman stove set up out front. The last 2 options wouldn't go over well in a Walmart parking lot.

[Ken / Claudia]

You need to address what you think is a must. If you can do without AC power items, the TV, A/C system and microwave for the night 2 good 12v batteries will work and upgrading to 2 good 6v batteries will work for maybe 2 nights.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by jmgreer1

We recently purchased a new TT. The whole thing is foreign to me, camping in general. I've spent a good bit of time in youtube and other media trying to nail down the easiest way to making short-overnight stays mostly comfortable.

I know that when not connected to shore power, the only thing working in the TT are the DC systems (lights, pumps, heater, water heater, etc.) but receptacles, TV, and others are not as they are run on the AC circuits.

There are lots of videos of people spending $1,000s of dollars to add batteries, inverter chargers, etc. and there are others who simply add an inverter with an extension cord.

I'm looking to see what others are doing here. My goal would be to have power to charge phones, make coffee, let the kids watch TV and whatnot while parked overnight in a walmart, cracker barrel, or something similar.

You have lots of great replies to review. What I don't quite understand are your expectations and your definition of a "short stay". I personally have never spent the night in a WalMart parking lot. Just my thing, for those that do no judgement. I'm not sure but the places you mentioned may or may not let you run a generator outside. I would check with the store/restaurant manager when you ask them if it's ok to stay overnight, which you should.

In my mind, staying overnight for a "short stay" in a retail parking lot would be pulling in in the late evening or at night. Everyone goes to bed.. If kids just can't live without electronic entertainment for an hour or two then let them use a tablet. I don't know many kids that don't have a tablet these days or a portable dvd player. Charge phones? If you have been driving wouldn't you have your phones charged in the truck? They should hold a charge overnight unless you are pounding on them all night. Coffee? If you are at Walmart they typically sell hot coffee.

To my thinking if I'm going to be a "once in a while" layover to get rest then make it a minimalistic. Two 6v deep cycle batteries should serve that purpose. If you are looking to "hobo camp" your way so as to not spend the money for campgrounds then that's a different story. The brochures showing the idyllic "camper by the lake" in the middle of nowhere is possible but not with all the comforts of home unless you spend a lot of money. A "car battery" in a camper from the dealership has very limited capacity that will be exhausted quickly with any heavy discharge such as the furnace. It's all about power management and balancing what your willing to spend vs what your "must haves" are.

[jmgreer1]

Originally Posted by flybouy

You have lots of great replies to review. What I don't quite understand are your expectations and your definition of a "short stay". I personally have never spent the night in a WalMart parking lot. Just my thing, for those that do no judgement. I'm not sure but the places you mentioned may or may not let you run a generator outside. I would check with the store/restaurant manager when you ask them if it's ok to stay overnight, which you should.

In my mind, staying overnight for a "short stay" in a retail parking lot would be pulling in in the late evening or at night. Everyone goes to bed.. If kids just can't live without electronic entertainment for an hour or two then let them use a tablet. I don't know many kids that don't have a tablet these days or a portable dvd player. Charge phones? If you have been driving wouldn't you have your phones charged in the truck? They should hold a charge overnight unless you are pounding on them all night. Coffee? If you are at Walmart they typically sell hot coffee.

To my thinking if I'm going to be a "once in a while" layover to get rest then make it a minimalistic. Two 6v deep cycle batteries should serve that purpose. If you are looking to "hobo camp" your way so as to not spend the money for campgrounds then that's a different story. The brochures showing the idyllic "camper by the lake" in the middle of nowhere is possible but not with all the comforts of home unless you spend a lot of money. A "car battery" in a camper from the dealership has very limited capacity that will be exhausted quickly with any heavy discharge such as the furnace. It's all about power management and balancing what your willing to spend vs what your "must haves" are.

With a generator, I would see it being run only when needed and not overnight. I would depend on DC systems for that.

Ok, now I have another question about the batteries. People keep saying get (2) 6V batteries. If I have a single 12V deep cycle lead acid 100AH battery, how is that any different than (2) 6V deep cycle 100AH batteries in series? I am aware that with lead acid that you really only have 50% of the AH capacity.

[B-O-B'03]

My GC2 6V batteries are 235 AH, more than double your current setup and way more than my previous 2 X group 24 75 AH 12 V batteries.

-Brian

[Sarge2]

I recently got (as a Christmas gift from my kids) a Champion Inverter Generator (3400W Starting / 3100 W running) for when we start boondocking... It's really quiet, (can actually have a normal conversation while standing next to it running) and it will run my 13.5 AC unit if required...I'm not about to spend 12-15K for solar... I also now have two 100ah batteries for the basics...

[dutchmensport]

To get around the coffee maker, carry a non-electric old fashioned camping percolator that you set on your stove top. In your camper's case, the gas stove top. No need for electricity. click here. $45 is way too much. I didn't pay near that much for one in a sporting good store.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by jmgreer1

With a generator, I would see it being run only when needed and not overnight. I would depend on DC systems for that.

Ok, now I have another question about the batteries. People keep saying get (2) 6V batteries. If I have a single 12V deep cycle lead acid 100AH battery, how is that any different than (2) 6V deep cycle 100AH batteries in series? I am aware that with lead acid that you really only have 50% of the AH capacity.

If you use 2 12 volt 100 ah batteries wired in parallel you will have 200 Ah at 12 volts. Flooded cell batteries at 50% would mean a useable 100 Ah. Using 2 6 volt 100 Ah batteries in series will produce 12 volts at 100 Ah. The 2 6 volt golf cart batteries however will sustain more and deeper discharges than the 12 v deep cycle batteries. The 6 volt batteries are built with thicker, heavier plates that won't warp and short out as readily as 12 volt batteries.

There's arguments for both. Either way, you need to purchase and install 2 new identical batteries. I would suggest doing a search onm series vs parallel battery connections. You will get hits on many sites and schematics on how to properly wire the two different connections.

[MarkEHansen]

About the batteries. The simple marine/combo battery provided with the trailer by the dealer is not good for off-grid use. It's really there just to show that the DC items work and as the emergency power source in the event the trailer separates from the tow vehicle while on the road (it will energize the trailer brakes - stopping the trailer).

As to the 12v vs 6v question - the 6V batteries are usually more than twice the capacity of a 12v battery, so it goes like this:

2 12v 200AH batteries in parallel provide 12v @ 200AH (100AH usable)
2 6v 235AH batteries in series provide 12v @ 235AH (117AH usable)

Additionally, as was mentioned, the 6v (GC2) batteries are much heavier-duty than the 12v counterparts. They will last longer and take much more of a beating.

Basically, as long as you get "true" deep cycle batteries (not starting or marine/combo) batteries, you're getting to the point where you can sustain power use overnight.

In my trailer, I got a 300w inverter to power the TV from batteries. The onlyl problem is that the 12v DC source near the TV doesn't support enough current to really run this inverter/TV combo and I had to run a separate higher-capacity DC power cable from the power panel to the area behind the TV. For your purpose, I would skip the TV or use an external Inverter generator.

Note also that going to 2 batteries may involve updating the connection cables from the trailer - they may not be long enough to reach both batteries (especially if wiring 2 6v batteries in series).

Of course, ask if you have more questions.

[CedarCreekWoody]

Televisions are now low amperage. Use a cigar type plug for a small inverter. Make your coffee on your propane powered stove in a perculator.

[colouiss651]

For 18 years now we have been weekend campers in national forests in Colorado, usually 3 or 4 nights. We have a 36 foot TT. I have 2 deep cycle six volt batteries in series that almost always gets us through the trip. However, for rainy days or movie nights, I carry a 3500 watt inverter generator, which I secure overnight. If I run low on juice, I can recharge quickly. Most newer campers have USB charger outlets hooked to the 12v system. LED lights use almost no juice and the furnace set on 50degrees only runs a few times in the night. We use a percolator on the stove for coffee. We almost never miss not having 120 outlets available to us. I must admit it took a few years to figure all this out though. Be patient, it will become second nature.

[Canonman]

Originally Posted by jmgreer1

We recently purchased a new TT. The whole thing is foreign to me, camping in general. I've spent a good bit of time in youtube and other media trying to nail down the easiest way to making short-overnight stays mostly comfortable.

I know that when not connected to shore power, the only thing working in the TT are the DC systems (lights, pumps, heater, water heater, etc.) but receptacles, TV, and others are not as they are run on the AC circuits.

There are lots of videos of people spending $1,000s of dollars to add batteries, inverter chargers, etc. and there are others who simply add an inverter with an extension cord.

I'm looking to see what others are doing here. My goal would be to have power to charge phones, make coffee, let the kids watch TV and whatnot while parked overnight in a walmart, cracker barrel, or something similar.

JM, I've always believed that simple is better. If you're looking for a simple inexpensive way to make overnight stays more comfortable and keep the kids entertained without shore power, here are a couple of suggestions:
You mention you have a "new TT". Most new RVs have LED lighting which is very efficient and requires very little battery power. Don't worry to much about running the lights. The big battery draw is the furnace fan. You should have a new 12v battery. Adding a second 12v battery will be enough to easily get you through an overnight stay. Save upgrading to a pair of 6v batteries until your 12v batteries need replacing or your camping needs change to more nights boondocking. Most folks believe running a generator while overnighting in a commercial parking lot is bad form and basically frowned upon. You can keep the kids entertained by simply adding a small 300 to 700 watt inverter ($35) that will run the TV and charge cell phones lap tops etc. Use a stove top percolator for coffee and the stove top and oven for cooking. You will have to forgo the hair dryer and and microwave but you will have hot and cold running water and thermostat controlled heat. No A/C but with the windows and vents open it will be bearable if the temps stay below 80.
If you're traveling in areas where the A/C is a must for nighttime comfort get a spot in an RV park with at least 110v power.
We've dry camped and boondocked for years and can overnight just about any place. Try camping in the driveway and see if you are comfortable enough to "take it on the road". I think you'll be most pleasantly surprised