Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Keystone Tech Forums > Tow Vehicles
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 10-11-2020, 09:54 AM   #21
sonofcy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Qualicum Beach
Posts: 555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Lockwood View Post
On the newer '19 or '20 RAM 3500 DRW trucks, how many miles might one expect to get on the DEF before filling up again?

Does towing versus non-towing make a difference on DEF usage, kind of like mpg loaded versus empty?

Thanks!

Dan
When towing especially in the mountains, over 2,400 miles I put def in twice but no idea where I started. Once I got here and parked, I think it was more than 6 months before I put any in. Since we have been marooned here due to covid the one can every 6 months seems to be it. I have a 2017 F450 and have no controls or indicators for 'regen' that I hear RAM drivers speak of. Maybe my engine is special.
__________________
2018 Keystone Montana 3811MS
2017 Ford F450 diesel dually
600AH Battle Born Lithium Batteries, 6x180 watt solar
3,000 watt hybrid inverter with 120A charger
sonofcy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2020, 12:45 PM   #22
travelin texans
Senior Member
 
travelin texans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Picacho, Az
Posts: 6,642
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Lockwood View Post
Thanks all for the sharing of your experiences.

I heard something Thursday that your vehicle doesn't know the difference between DEF and WATER.

I'm sure there's some truth to that, but I don't totally believe the guy. He has a class A and has been running water instead of DEF without any issues.

With DEF cheap as it is and the long time between refills, it seems kind of weird to even try something like that, especially if a warranty is involved.

Thanks again for all the comments. ��
DEF is 67% deionized water 33% urea! I would let that guy be the guinea pig on running straight water then check back with him in 50k miles & see the results.
I had a '05 duramax when the newer ones came out using DEF, I had one of "those" guys tell me "pour a jug of that DEF stuff in your tank, that thing would really run then" to which I said "yep! for about a minute, DEF is 68% water" he says "OH!".
__________________
Full-timed 10+ years
Sold '13 Redwood FB
Traded '13 GMC Denali DRW D/A
Replacement undetermined
travelin texans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2020, 01:10 PM   #23
sonofcy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Qualicum Beach
Posts: 555
Some of the comments sound like some people think DEF goes in the engine. It goes in the exhaust. That may explain why the Class A guy got away with pure water.
__________________
2018 Keystone Montana 3811MS
2017 Ford F450 diesel dually
600AH Battle Born Lithium Batteries, 6x180 watt solar
3,000 watt hybrid inverter with 120A charger
sonofcy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2020, 01:18 PM   #24
Javi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Waco, Tx
Posts: 5,451
On a funny note... I used to sell it as fertilizer 32-0-0 for $80 a ton... Urea I'd 46-0-0 in dry prill ��
__________________
2015 Ford F350 DRW 6.7 Diesel XL
2020 Avalanche 313 RS
Javi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2020, 03:00 PM   #25
BrooksFam
Senior Member
 
BrooksFam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Willamette Valley Oregon
Posts: 330
I just drove my Ram 1500 EcoDiesel 2800 miles towing a 6000lb enclosed trailer from S. Carolina to Oregon and used just under 2.5 gals of DEF. I get a 2.5 gal jug at Walmart for about $8.
__________________
2020 Keystone 291RLS
2014 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel 4x4 Crew 3.92
EAZ-Lift Recurve R3 #1200

BrooksFam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2020, 03:07 PM   #26
rlh1957
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Jonesboro
Posts: 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by LewisB View Post
Our 2017 F350 DRW has a 7.4 gallon DEF tank and a gauge. I usually just let the first warning on the truck system go off at 500 miles remaining, then add two 2.5 gallon jugs of DEF. I've never kept track, but it seems like I have to do this once in between scheduled services. We bought an extended service package from our dealer and DEF is always topped off at service time.

As others have said, it's almost a "use and forget" issue for us. Our truck is almost exclusively a tow vehicle, so I can't speak to DEF use towing vs non-towing, but my understanding is that it does use more as the motor works harder. So it could also relate to how hard you drive - I don't baby mine - it loves to work hard.
Same here. We run about 3000 miles and put in about 3 gals at truck lane after alert comes on.
rlh1957 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2020, 08:42 AM   #27
LewisB
Senior Member
 
LewisB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Tucson
Posts: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Lockwood View Post
Thanks all for the sharing of your experiences.

I heard something Thursday that your vehicle doesn't know the difference between DEF and WATER.

I'm sure there's some truth to that, but I don't totally believe the guy. He has a class A and has been running water instead of DEF without any issues.

With DEF cheap as it is and the long time between refills, it seems kind of weird to even try something like that, especially if a warranty is involved.

Thanks again for all the comments. ��
BS - he may have added some water to his system, but the the engine sensors will continue to increase the injection rate until chemical cleaning is not happening and the computer will throw the truck into "limp home" mode with an ultimate shut-down. As others have noted, DEF has a high percentage of water, but you're playing with fire to save pennies!

The manufacturers are forced by the EPA to take this seriously. If you fiddle much with the system and contaminate it, it might lead to a complete breakdown of the fuel injection system - replacement will be $10-15K! I'm sure we will get all sorts of comments about "delete's" and "jail breaking" the systems; my question is "Why"? With 440 HP and 961 pound-feet of torque, my DRW is magnificent just as it is.

Just use the DEF - it's cheap & easy and keeps your truck legal.
__________________
Brad & Penny (50 years!)
2017 F350 DRW CC 4x4 Payload=5560
2018 Raptor 353TS
2019 Can Am Maverick Sport XRC - the "Blue Goose"

On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjc...yZ_w7jyofaPLVQ
LewisB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2020, 10:05 AM   #28
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 25,235
I try to keep accurate records for my vehicles. My 2015 F250 diesel records reflect the following:

Miles driven to date, 61,315
DEF added since new: 14 containers (2.5 gal each)

That comes down to the following:

miles per 2.5 gallon container: 4380
miles per gallon of DEF: 1752

I echo many of the previous comments regarding "DEF is not a substantial issue with current diesel pickup trucks". I also agree with previous posters who comment on the "personal responsibility each owner has to keep their vehicle "emissions system" working properly, to reduce the amount of pollution their vehicle adds to the environment we all share. Today's diesels produce two, three even more times the power of their "smoke belching ancestors" just 15 years ago.

I remember living in Lancaster, CA in the early '70's and watching the yellow/green haze rise over the mountains to the southwest of the "clean air in Lancaster". That haze was air pollution from Los Angeles. Every morning it "creeped into the Antelope Valley" and at times, if the wind direction was just right, not only did we see it, we could smell it. Thankfully, those days are behind us and on our last trip to Lancaster, last spring, I never saw that yellow/green haze.

It's incumbent on each of us, as we use our RV's to enjoy the "unspoiled outdoors" to do our part to keep it as "unspoiled as possible" for not only our kids but our grandkids and beyond... Sound "hokey" ??? Maybe, but I remember times when dumping raw sewage into the ditch beside Grandma's house to be the norm. As populated as Osyka, MS is today, if everyone still did that, Osyka would be a "big septic system" rather than a quiet little south Mississippi village with clean air, clean streets and clean ditches where kids can catch crawfish with strips of bacon tied to a string on the end of a twig.

I hope my great granddaughter has the privilege to catch crawfish like I did so many years ago....

DEF makes a difference, but it's not an "intrusive inconvenience" at least not for me.
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2020, 10:15 AM   #29
RRTrick
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Sidney
Posts: 8
I have a 2017 RAM 3500 and my wife and I put 28000 kms on it pulling a 30 foot 5th wheel summer of 2019 and I found I used less when it was pulling hard and working as it was designed to do. Using that truck for short trips routinely is the biggest drain on the DEF.
RRTrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2020, 08:11 AM   #30
Salty25
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Oak Harbor
Posts: 119
Wow, I don't know if I'm doing something right or wrong.

I have a 2018 Ram 2500 and have Just put in the third box of DEF since I bought the truck new and have 12000 miles on it. So how are you guys only getting 1500 miles and I'm getting about 5000? I drive city, highway and I tow my Cougar and a utility trailer.
__________________
2018 RAM 2500 Crew Cab 4X4
2021 Cougar 24RDS

USN (retired)
Retired Law Enforcement
Salty25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2020, 08:38 AM   #31
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 25,235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salty25 View Post
Wow, I don't know if I'm doing something right or wrong.

I have a 2018 Ram 2500 and have Just put in the third box of DEF since I bought the truck new and have 12000 miles on it. So how are you guys only getting 1500 miles and I'm getting about 5000? I drive city, highway and I tow my Cougar and a utility trailer.
Assuming you started with a full DEF tank and have put in 3 "boxes of DEF" (2.5 gallons per box) that would be 12000 miles on 7.5 gallons of DEF which is about 1600 miles per gallon (12000/7.5=1600). I'm getting 1752 miles per gallon, so your DEF usage is not far from the same I've calculated over the past 60K miles.
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2020, 03:56 PM   #32
Salty25
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Oak Harbor
Posts: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
Assuming you started with a full DEF tank and have put in 3 "boxes of DEF" (2.5 gallons per box) that would be 12000 miles on 7.5 gallons of DEF which is about 1600 miles per gallon (12000/7.5=1600). I'm getting 1752 miles per gallon, so your DEF usage is not far from the same I've calculated over the past 60K miles.
You're right my math was slightly off. I meant 5,000 per box, not per gallon. I've never filled my DEF tank to the 100% mark. When it gets close to the empty mark I add a box.
__________________
2018 RAM 2500 Crew Cab 4X4
2021 Cougar 24RDS

USN (retired)
Retired Law Enforcement
Salty25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2020, 08:42 PM   #33
Bandit12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: QUINCY
Posts: 139
On a recent trip from California to South Dakota and back, I discovered quite a difference in DEF usage. My 18 Ram 2500 was showing half tank, I topped it off with a 2.5 gal jug prior to departure. From our home to Silver City SD, towing our former hybrid Jayco weighing in at about 5K lbs. I used less than half a tank over a distance of roughly 1200 miles. We ran around in the truck for over a week without the trailer and I'd estimate we put another 600 miles on the truck. I again topped off the DEF tank with another 2.5 gal jug prior to leaving SD. Our destination was Hill AFB near Layton UT, roughly 630 miles. In that distance I used another half tank. Towing the same trailer. The big difference was we were bucking a major headwind. My fuel economy on the way out was about 14-15 mpg. On the way back to UT, it was cut in half to about 7-8 mpg. While we were in UT, we ended up trading in the hybrid for our new Cougar which weighs about 6800 lbs with the gear we had in it. I added another 2.5 gal jug of DEF prior to leaving for home. On that trip, we had little to no head wind and I was getting 11-12 mpg and used about 1/4 tank of DEF. I asked one the shops I work with if they could tell me if this was normal and they said yes. If the engine is working harder, you will use more DEF. I can tell you that I checked my fuel mileage tonight when I got home from work. My daily round trip commute is nearly 70 miles thru the Sierra Nevada mountains. I filled up Sunday, and as of tonight, I have used a little over 1/4 tank of fuel and my fuel mileage is slightly over 23 mpg. Running solo, I use about half a tank every 200 miles or so. FWIW, that same shop owner told me I should start running the DEF down to nearly empty before refilling it. He explained it that I should treat DEF like milk, use it or it will spoil and if it does, it can contaminate the new stuff I put in as ell as cause problems with the tank and heater.
__________________
USAF Retired
2018 Ram 2500HD Laramie CTD
2021 Cougar Half Ton 27SABWE
Bandit12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2020, 05:25 AM   #34
chunker
Senior Member
 
chunker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Hartford AL
Posts: 439
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post

I try to keep accurate records for my vehicles. My 2015 more times the
DEF makes a difference, but it's not an "intrusive inconvenience" at least not for me.
I don't think most people are trying to game the system, some will regardless, but some knowledge of use is helpful. Most of us are pretty in tune with fuel usage but unless you are full timing in a diesel, DEF usage isn't at least not for me. Knowing my usage helps in planning and avoids the situation like I had going through Cincinnati earlier and having the warning light come on for low DEF. And I definitely used lots more DEF towing than I did just driving it around. I didn't track DEF MPG or such though. I did carry a sealed 2.5g tank in the back.
__________________
2021 Omni SX32
2012 Crusader 355BHQ (girl friends)
2020 Ram 1500 Laramie 4WD, toad
2019 Harley Davidson Heritage Classic 114 (the toy)
chunker is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV® is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.