Eco-Boost guys eat your hearts out

[Badbart56]

Originally Posted by flybouy

The first word in your post says it all.

You are SOOO right!!!

[gearhead]

Apparently there is a Ford office door with a nameplate on it: Rube Goldberg.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rube_Goldberg_machine

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by Badbart56

California just passed a bill that will phase out commercial diesel trucks over the next 25 years. (can our RV tow vehicles be far behind?) It will first start by denying registration for trucks built before 2011 and will end by denying any new diesels sold by 2045. So by doing this it's clear that they expect electric trucks to have advanced enough to do what the present commercial trucks are capable of now. I say this with a smirk on my face because even in 25 years I'm VERY skeptical that this will be possible. My wife and I are team drivers. I run about 600-700 miles a night and she takes over and runs about 500-600 miles during the day. (The difference is due to more traffic during daylight hours.) We can refuel Once a day and refueling usually takes about 15-20 minutes. First of all, how much battery weight is going to be required to move an 80K pound gross weight across the highways and up the mountains on a rig this heavy? Empty weight on my present rig (tractor and reefer trailer) is 38400 pounds. So my max load is 41600 pounds. I can't begin to imagine the battery power it would take to move 80K pounds 70-80 mph down a highway. Secondly, there is no way you're going to recharge this much battery in the same time period it would take to refuel the diesel truck. And the range? Do you think someone could make a battery that could move this much weight 700 miles in one charge? That's around 10-11 hours drive time. I think they've set some lofty goals. Some of you engineer types may have some insight? I have my doubts that they will be able to get a car to go that far let alone a 40 ton truck.

Hopefully they keep all of those in California!!
Next all those out there complaining about the use of fossil fuels will be bitching that ALL the wind/solar farms used to charge all those EVs are blocking their beautiful landscapes.

[Northofu1]

Originally Posted by Badbart56

California just passed a bill that will phase out commercial diesel trucks over the next 25 years. (can our RV tow vehicles be far behind?) It will first start by denying registration for trucks built before 2011 and will end by denying any new diesels sold by 2045. So by doing this it's clear that they expect electric trucks to have advanced enough to do what the present commercial trucks are capable of now. I say this with a smirk on my face because even in 25 years I'm VERY skeptical that this will be possible. My wife and I are team drivers. I run about 600-700 miles a night and she takes over and runs about 500-600 miles during the day. (The difference is due to more traffic during daylight hours.) We can refuel Once a day and refueling usually takes about 15-20 minutes. First of all, how much battery weight is going to be required to move an 80K pound gross weight across the highways and up the mountains on a rig this heavy? Empty weight on my present rig (tractor and reefer trailer) is 38400 pounds. So my max load is 41600 pounds. I can't begin to imagine the battery power it would take to move 80K pounds 70-80 mph down a highway. Secondly, there is no way you're going to recharge this much battery in the same time period it would take to refuel the diesel truck. And the range? Do you think someone could make a battery that could move this much weight 700 miles in one charge? That's around 10-11 hours drive time. I think they've set some lofty goals. Some of you engineer types may have some insight? I have my doubts that they will be able to get a car to go that far let alone a 40 ton truck.

Where there's a profit, there's a way.

[Badbart56]

Originally Posted by Northofu1

Where there's a profit, there's a way.

Wait, weren't we supposed to have flying cars by now?! Marty McFly said so.....

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by Badbart56

California just passed a bill that will phase out commercial diesel trucks over the next 25 years. (can our RV tow vehicles be far behind?) It will first start by denying registration for trucks built before 2011 and will end by denying any new diesels sold by 2045. So by doing this it's clear that they expect electric trucks to have advanced enough to do what the present commercial trucks are capable of now. I say this with a smirk on my face because even in 25 years I'm VERY skeptical that this will be possible. My wife and I are team drivers. I run about 600-700 miles a night and she takes over and runs about 500-600 miles during the day. (The difference is due to more traffic during daylight hours.) We can refuel Once a day and refueling usually takes about 15-20 minutes. First of all, how much battery weight is going to be required to move an 80K pound gross weight across the highways and up the mountains on a rig this heavy? Empty weight on my present rig (tractor and reefer trailer) is 38400 pounds. So my max load is 41600 pounds. I can't begin to imagine the battery power it would take to move 80K pounds 70-80 mph down a highway. Secondly, there is no way you're going to recharge this much battery in the same time period it would take to refuel the diesel truck. And the range? Do you think someone could make a battery that could move this much weight 700 miles in one charge? That's around 10-11 hours drive time. I think they've set some lofty goals. Some of you engineer types may have some insight? I have my doubts that they will be able to get a car to go that far let alone a 40 ton truck.

You and your wife team drive? In the same cab? My wife is about ready to pull a pistol on my after 20 minutes headed to a camp ground (tend to whine a lot while I drive). God bless you both and thanks for making sure we have "stuff" during the pandemic! BTW: For all you F150 lovers, go through a car lot and look at the payloads for new F150s. You will just not likely see any over 2K if that much. People buying those 1/2 tons don't think about towing... just the smell of new leather seats and electronic gee-gaws.

[Badbart56]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

You and your wife team drive? In the same cab? My wife is about ready to pull a pistol on my after 20 minutes headed to a camp ground (tend to whine a lot while I drive). God bless you both and thanks for making sure we have "stuff" during the pandemic! BTW: For all you F150 lovers, go through a car lot and look at the payloads for new F150s. You will just not likely see any over 2K if that much. People buying those 1/2 tons don't think about towing... just the smell of new leather seats and electronic gee-gaws.

Yeah, we'll have been married for 26 years come this Thursday. We get along better than most.

[MerlinB]

Originally Posted by flybouy

MHmmmm ... How long before we get a post "can I plug my hybrid F150 into the same outlet that my 50 amp 1/2 ton fiver is plugged into at the same time? I need to charge it back up for the ride into town to buy some kombucha tea get my high colonic treatment ."

That may be possible. My son has a Tesla Model S car. Whenever he comes to visit he recharges his car by plugging in to the 50 amp RV outlet I have on the side of my garage. Takes about six hours for a full recharge.

[Logan X]

The anti fossil fuel crowd is not limited to California. Ideas like banning diesel trucks may start here but that kind of “limited on actual facts eco science” has a way of spreading like wildfire in today’s climate (pun intended). I hope that reasonable people make reasonable laws and policies about this stuff in the future...but I’m not holding my breath.

[crk112]

I'm not sold on the Ecoboost (EDIT: in the half-ton)


Take my truck for example.. 2013 F-150 SuperCrew XLT 5.0L .. tow capacity 7,500lbs and axle gross weights 3900 in front and 3850 in the rear. Payload capacity 1448lbs on the sticker, but I've calculated myuseful payload at closer to 1150 after visiting the scales. My tongue weight is usually around 625-650. My rear axle scales in at 3650-- 200lbs below the gross weight.


Now, take the exact same truck except with an Ecoboost. The only number that changes is tow capacity (11,500lbs in 2013 Ecoboost). Same payload and axle gross weights.... I really can't tow ANY larger a TT despite having 4,000lbs higher "tow capacity".

[CaptnJohn]

Originally Posted by Badbart56

You are SOOO right!!!

That's assuming God doesn't to use the fault He created and drop CA in the ocean.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by crk112

I'm not sold on the Ecoboost (EDIT: in the half-ton)


Take my truck for example.. 2013 F-150 SuperCrew XLT 5.0L .. tow capacity 7,500lbs and axle gross weights 3900 in front and 3850 in the rear. Payload capacity 1448lbs on the sticker, but I've calculated myuseful payload at closer to 1150 after visiting the scales. My tongue weight is usually around 625-650. My rear axle scales in at 3650-- 200lbs below the gross weight.


Now, take the exact same truck except with an Ecoboost. The only number that changes is tow capacity (11,500lbs in 2013 Ecoboost). Same payload and axle gross weights.... I really can't tow ANY larger a TT despite having 4,000lbs higher "tow capacity".

But you could tow a "carefully balanced 11,500 pound flatbed trailer with concrete weights on it (like Ford does for the SAE certifications)... Far too many people "lump all trailers into the same category"... There are "trailers that can be loaded easily to balance tongue weight, there are trailers that experience minimal sidewind movement, there are trailers that "flow smoothly behind a aerodynamic truck" and then there are "big square boxes that invalidate everything about the above categories"....

Travel trailers and "Ford trailer limits" are two entirely different animals.... Sort of like saying, I like pickles and then trying to drink a gallon of vinegar. They might taste a little alike, but they sure aren't the same thing.....

[crk112]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

But you could tow a "carefully balanced 11,500 pound flatbed trailer with concrete weights on it (like Ford does for the SAE certifications)... Far too many people "lump all trailers into the same category"... There are "trailers that can be loaded easily to balance tongue weight, there are trailers that experience minimal sidewind movement, there are trailers that "flow smoothly behind a aerodynamic truck" and then there are "big square boxes that invalidate everything about the above categories"....

Travel trailers and "Ford trailer limits" are two entirely different animals.... Sort of like saying, I like pickles and then trying to drink a gallon of vinegar. They might taste a little alike, but they sure aren't the same thing.....

Absolutely a fair point... the camper is the only large trailer I pull with the truck. But isn't a "well-balanced" trailer still supposed to be 10-15% on the tongue whether it's a TT or pallets of bricks? An 11.5k trailer full of bricks with 15% on the tongue would exceed my usable payload by several hundred pounds as well as the rear axle gross weight. The Ecoboost sits on the same exact frame and drivetrain right?

In my case the truck came first and we fell into the RV dealer trap of simply comparing trailer gross weight with tow capacity... luckily it could be a lot worse; I can stay under all the limits if the truck is empty (besides me, full fuel, and toolboxes). The rest of the family has to ride in my wife's truck. "Upgrading" to an Ecoboost would not improve that situation for me, and I bet I'm not alone.

In the end, the Ecoboost is still just a half-ton "light duty" truck.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by crk112

Absolutely a fair point... the camper is the only large trailer I pull with the truck. But isn't a "well-balanced" trailer still supposed to be 10-15% on the tongue whether it's a TT or pallets of bricks? An 11.5k trailer full of bricks with 15% on the tongue would exceed my usable payload by several hundred pounds as well as the rear axle gross weight. The Ecoboost sits on the same exact frame and drivetrain right?

In my case the truck came first and we fell into the RV dealer trap of simply comparing trailer gross weight with tow capacity... luckily it could be a lot worse; I can stay under all the limits if the truck is empty (besides me, full fuel, and toolboxes). The rest of the family has to ride in my wife's truck. "Upgrading" to an Ecoboost would not improve that situation for me, and I bet I'm not alone.

In the end, the Ecoboost is still just a half-ton "light duty" truck.

At 15%, a 11,500 pound trailer tongue weight is 1725 pounds. At 10%, a 11500 pound trailer tongue weight is 1150 pounds. That's "several hundred pounds lighter" Actually it's 575 pounds lighter. Manipulating the trailer weight so it's "as light on the tongue as possible" enables the manufacturers to "claim outrageous trailer capacities" and still stay under payload and axle limits, but you simply can't (as you've seen and stated) do that with a travel trailer where, at best, you "MIGHT" be able to shift 1 or 2 percent off the tongue.

If you could "manipulate that "big square box that acts like a big sail" to get that extra 575 pounds, you might find that your family could 'fit in the truck and still be under GVW. But, would you be "safe" or "just barely under the GVW" ???? Ford, GM and RAM all "fill the squares in their brochures" to best each other and leave it to the customer to find out how it "won't work in the real world with a travel trailer" just as you've found that reality.....

[skids]

Originally Posted by NH_Bulldog

George, what F-150 Crew Cab has a 1,000 lb. cargo capacity?

My 3.5L Ecoboost SuperCrew has over 3,000 lb. in cargo capacity and every one I looked at before we bought this one had right around 2,000 lbs. cargo capacity (All according to the cargo and loading sticker on the door frame). I am not a “Ford Guy” (this is my first Ford), but I do believe in accurate facts.

My f150 2014 3.5L 4x4 screw has a 1520lb payload capacity. It pulls my 2019 Bullet 248RKS with full FW supply. I choose to pull the trailer with 1/2 FW tank and it really handles well on the highway, both up and down grades. Braking is good also. I wouldn’t want to go heavier with tongue weight and WD-hitch. I used a bathroom scale with full tanks and typical load and tongue was about 950 lbs. This is the reason I wanted to reduce FW tank load to 1/2 tank (reduction of 18 gallons or 150lbs - majority is a reduction from the hitch).

Even though Ford specifies that 9200 lbs is the maximum conventional trailer load, I wouldn’t want to pull much more than my Bullet. (6000 ish lbs.)

[Ken / Claudia]

Skids, just giving you my numbers for comparison. Without going to TLR for double check of scale wt.s 920 lb tongue, thinking 7700 or 7900 was tlr wt.
Loaded full of propane, 100 lbs of batteries, full fresh tank food and camp gear for 2 on 3 day trip. I wiill run and check the slip, windows need closing thunder /rain coming. Will edit if numbers are off.

[skids]

Originally Posted by Badbart56

California just passed a bill that will phase out commercial diesel trucks over the next 25 years. (can our RV tow vehicles be far behind?) It will first start by denying registration for trucks built before 2011 and will end by denying any new diesels sold by 2045. So by doing this it's clear that they expect electric trucks to have advanced enough to do what the present commercial trucks are capable of now. I say this with a smirk on my face because even in 25 years I'm VERY skeptical that this will be possible. My wife and I are team drivers. I run about 600-700 miles a night and she takes over and runs about 500-600 miles during the day. (The difference is due to more traffic during daylight hours.) We can refuel Once a day and refueling usually takes about 15-20 minutes. First of all, how much battery weight is going to be required to move an 80K pound gross weight across the highways and up the mountains on a rig this heavy? Empty weight on my present rig (tractor and reefer trailer) is 38400 pounds. So my max load is 41600 pounds. I can't begin to imagine the battery power it would take to move 80K pounds 70-80 mph down a highway. Secondly, there is no way you're going to recharge this much battery in the same time period it would take to refuel the diesel truck. And the range? Do you think someone could make a battery that could move this much weight 700 miles in one charge? That's around 10-11 hours drive time. I think they've set some lofty goals. Some of you engineer types may have some insight? I have my doubts that they will be able to get a car to go that far let alone a 40 ton truck.

The Prius that we had charged the battery anytime you took your foot off the gas (Hybrid). It did not charge the battery by plugging it into a receptacle. Charging that depends on a power cord are ridiculous IMHO because of the cumulative inefficiencies. It takes a lot of power from the source to charge it, being coal, natural gas or whatever.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by skids

The Prius that we had charged the battery anytime you took your foot off the gas (Hybrid). It did not charge the battery by plugging it into a receptacle. Charging that depends on a power cord are ridiculous IMHO because of the cumulative inefficiencies. It takes a lot of power from the source to charge it, being coal, natural gas or whatever.

Regenerative charging technology has been a part of electric vehicle technology "almost from the beginning of the concept".

True electric powered vehicles "REQUIRE" recharging from an external source. That means "plugging them in". Only a minor part of battery charging is obtained while the vehicle is "coasting or decelerating" (not using battery power to move forward).

Hybrid electric powered vehicles have an "onboard generator/charger" that recharges the vehicle. Think a "diesel/electric locomotive that pulls hundreds of railroad cars on train tracks".... Most hybrid vehicles use a small gas engine to provide power to the wheels and that gas engine is augmented by electric motors which "aid in vehicle drive power. That gas engine has the "generator" also coupled to its output to recharge the batteries. There is MINOR regenerative charging during deceleration.

Plug-in hybrids use both an external source and an onboard gen/charger for power.

Bottom line, right now, there is no "customer available" electric vehicle or hybrid vehicle that does not use fossil fuel as a means to provide electric energy. Even the "plug in hybrids" rely on "consumer electric power" to recharge their battery banks. I don't know of any "consumer electric company" that does not use fossil fuels for at least a part of their power grid supply.

A "true fossil fuel free" transportation system is, at present "only a dream"... How soon, if ever, such a system can become a reality, even in a small transportation system is questionable. California may have mandated such a system by a specific date, but achieving it ???? Quite another consideration.

[notanlines]

If California mandates it, it will be done at the expense of federal taxes.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by notanlines

If California mandates it, it will be done at the expense of federal taxes.

And at the expense of all consumers of that product.