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Old 06-14-2020, 08:07 AM   #41
CaptnJohn
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In 2014 I bought a great f150 and wife said time for camping again. Bought a 26’ tt for short time and distance trips. Wife said we need to go farther and stay longer, me NOT in a small tt so we bought a 34’ 5er and upgraded to a 2015 f250 diesel. Great combo. I’m 2016 wife said she had to have 5er with bonus room, 2017 Montana and 2016 f350 diesel. Then wife said we (she really) had to have a front living room Montana. So now a 2019 Montana and 2019 f350 dually. The f350 srw made all numbers just barely and I WANTED the cushion. Blame her for all but the dually. Should have bought the dually with the 1st 5er!
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Old 06-14-2020, 08:28 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by CaptnJohn View Post
In 2014 I bought a great f150 and wife said time for camping again. Bought a 26 tt for short time and distance trips. Wife said we need to go farther and stay longer, me NOT in a small tt so we bought a 34 5er and upgraded to a 2015 f250 diesel. Great combo. Im 2016 wife said she had to have 5er with bonus room, 2017 Montana and 2016 f350 diesel. Then wife said we (she really) had to have a front living room Montana. So now a 2019 Montana and 2019 f350 dually. The f350 srw made all numbers just barely and I WANTED the cushion. Blame her for all but the dually. Should have bought the dually with the 1st 5er!
Seems like we all end up there.....eventually
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Old 06-14-2020, 08:58 AM   #43
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Am I overloaded

!st of all why would GM build a truck with a Duramax with all that torque and only give it 2000 lbs of payload. That is incredibly dumb. Sure load it up with a full tank of fuel a lunch pail a cooler and 3 friends on Jenny Craig. When people buy a truck off the lot I swear that they don't know what factory options are available for PENNIES. On a Ford F 150 for instance Max Tow pkg is $1199. but included in the pkg you get 36 gal tank $400. 3:55 elec lock rear $390. brake controller $299. and a bunch of other things that you can't get by themselves. On the F250 with a Diesel for about $1100. you can get High capacity towing which boosts the payload to over 3000 lbs. I don't know why everyone that buys a truck doesn't get these things. Look at the inventory online dealers don't add this to the trucks they bring in for the lot. S M H
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Old 06-14-2020, 08:59 AM   #44
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Wife and I spent our 1st weekend in the the camper at a campground this past weekend. All was good weather, rv systems all worked well, Hit the cat scale on the way home to proof what i thought i had a pretty decent bead on.

The scale ticket came back with 4 weights.

Net A - 4820lbs (assume steering axle weight)
Net B - 5280lbs (assume drive axle weight)
Net C - 7780lbs (assume trailer axle weight)
Net (A+B+C) - 17880lbs (assume combined weight of A,B, C)

I have an 08 Silverado 2500HD DMax TD, ext cab stnd Bed 4wd,
My door Sticker has the following info:

GVWR - 9200lb
GAWR FRT - 4860lb
GAWR RR - 6084
GCWR - 22000
Max Trailer weight 14000


Q: Am I safe for towing and within my weight limitation ?
I believe so, not sure what my measurables directly relate to my door sticker?

Thx in advance for your guidance in this matter

Scott

I'm going to take a different approach and let everyone else argue about advertising and salespeople.


Looking at the scale numbers (It might help if was had a pictrue of the weigh slip but)


1 I am going to assume the "A" weight if the P/U front axle "B" is P/U rear axle and "C" is the combined axles of the trailer


2. P/U GAWR F is 4860 so front axle is 40# under the MAX rating


3 P/U GAWR R is 6084 so rear is 804 under max


4 Tlr GAWR ? (sticker is on tlr) If we assume a perfect 50/50 weight split each axle is loaded 3,890 and assuming the weight is perfect split side to side each tire has 1,945#
Buy we know that almost no trailer is perfect on weight split with many showing 45/55% split so recalculating we might be at 4,279 for one axle and 2553# on the heaviest loaded tire.


Summary
P/U might be OK if assumptions are ok but passengers better not eat a big lunch.


One or more tlr tire might be overloaded but we don't know the GAWR of trailer axles or tire size, type or Load ranger. If I were a betting man I would bet a beer that there is an overloaded tire on the trailer.


You can read my blog on RVTire Safety if you want to learn more.


Stay Safe out there. In some states that may be a problem.
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Old 06-14-2020, 12:30 PM   #45
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And I'll interject 2 thoughts on this(as I may be in the same type situation, but won't acknowledge due to the "weight police").
From a reputable RV magazine:
1. There is NO SUCH THING as a 1/2 ton towable 5th wheel, despite what a given auto or RV manufacturer tells you.
2. Half of ALL 5th wheels on the road are overweight somewhere.

After hashing weight #'s myself for the last 9 months and talks with many people, including auto engineers that I know, I believe the 2nd point to be true. Seems everybody doesn't care about GVWR, just payload when the GVWR is the more important #.
And to start another arguement, from one of the auto engineers that told me that the weight #'s have lots of 'fudge factor' built into them, a way to calculate a truer GVWR, with your weight ticket subtract the empty RAW from 'hooked up' RAW and add to your GVW. That # is a real world GVWR.
Example:
RAW with camper 6340
RAWR - 3460

= 2880
GVW(truck ready to hook up to camper) + 8560

Real world GVWR 11440
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Old 06-14-2020, 12:58 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by kcordell57 View Post
And I'll interject 2 thoughts on this(as I may be in the same type situation, but won't acknowledge due to the "weight police").
From a reputable RV magazine:
1. There is NO SUCH THING as a 1/2 ton towable 5th wheel, despite what a given auto or RV manufacturer tells you.
2. Half of ALL 5th wheels on the road are overweight somewhere.

After hashing weight #'s myself for the last 9 months and talks with many people, including auto engineers that I know, I believe the 2nd point to be true. Seems everybody doesn't care about GVWR, just payload when the GVWR is the more important #.
And to start another arguement, from one of the auto engineers that told me that the weight #'s have lots of 'fudge factor' built into them, a way to calculate a truer GVWR, with your weight ticket subtract the empty RAW from 'hooked up' RAW and add to your GVW. That # is a real world GVWR.
Example:
RAW with camper 6340
RAWR - 3460

= 2880
GVW(truck ready to hook up to camper) + 8560

Real world GVWR 11440
The reality of the weight capacities is this. If you are over the payload rating, you are automatically over the GVWR of the truck....or if you prefer, if you are over the GVWR of the truck, you are over the payload rating. It's just that simple.

And BTW.........your auto "engineer" is 100% wrong! That's not the way it works
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Old 06-14-2020, 01:09 PM   #47
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Chit happens!
Not everyone was an A+ student, not everyone did their homework in school or life.
That's just the nature of our species.
Now, when you come to a forum like this and people ask what your TV and TT are and decipher where you went wrong the switch turns on, for most. Some argue that they are good, others have anxiety and panic. That clears after 24 hours and then the smart(ish) ones try to devise a plan to make it right.
I myself broke into a cold sweat when I realized I was on the cusp with my initial set up. Luckily, someone messaged me and let me know I was close, but mot in the danger zone. Fear is a funny thing and like a good tea steeps into respect and caution. I made sure I checked my tires, I brought tools, I drove at a reasonable speed and made sure I was fully aware of the maintenance for my rigs.
My plan after that realization was in the works to trade in my TV and get a 2500 gasser and knew I wanted a 5er on the smaller side. but it took a year and a half. I am happy with what I have now and I am good with my numbers.
Once you realize that you made a mistake it's about finding a way to get to the point that makes it right.There are a bunch of options to do so. Be patient and don't make the same mistake twice. You will sleep better in your trailer when you get to that end.
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Old 06-14-2020, 01:47 PM   #48
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Stupid question - do I need to hit the scales when hauling my TT? I've seen several posts about going through the scales. I thought they were only required for commercial vehicles.
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Old 06-14-2020, 02:25 PM   #49
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Stupid question - do I need to hit the scales when hauling my TT? I've seen several posts about going through the scales. I thought they were only required for commercial vehicles.
Rest easy, the scales you see on the Interstate are not for RV's, only commercial vehicles.
The scales being referred to here are the ones you voluntarily go to, usually at a truck stop so you can get the "real numbers" of your set up the way you have it loaded for camping. The sticker weights for the trailer are dry weight and pin weight with no load. Once you load up all your gear you'll want to get it weighed so you know what your actual load and balance is.
Knowledge is good and can make for a much more comfortable ride.
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Old 06-14-2020, 02:27 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by LadyFaire View Post
Stupid question - do I need to hit the scales when hauling my TT? I've seen several posts about going through the scales. I thought they were only required for commercial vehicles.
If you are talking about the roadside scales that the trucks pull into the answer is "NO." Only commercial vehicles are required to stop there.
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Old 06-14-2020, 02:51 PM   #51
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Oh, good! We can do the same thing at our local land fill - they will allow anyone to get accurate weights at no charge. That is how I got the HONEST weight of my truck. It was nowhere close to the 'book' figures. Much lighter - even with a full load of fuel and people.



Thank you for clearing that up for me!
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Old 06-14-2020, 02:51 PM   #52
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Stupid question - do I need to hit the scales when hauling my TT? I've seen several posts about going through the scales. I thought they were only required for commercial vehicles.
Many folks come onto this site and are in a quandary whether the truck they own is overloaded with the trailer they have or are considering buying a trailer and want to know if the tow vehicle is up to snuff. Common wisdom is to have the person go to a commercial set of scales (truck stops usually) and get real world numbers they can compare to the payload and tow capacity of their truck. Often folks are mislead by conflicting numbers put out by either the truck or camper manufacturers and in reality, as has been pointed out, all trucks of a certain model are not equal and trailers get loaded and increase weight and pin (tongue) weight well beyond what the manufacturer states. I have yet to hear of someone asking and finding out they had too much truck.
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Old 06-14-2020, 03:39 PM   #53
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tireman

I have load range e tires and rims rated at 3960lbs, 80psi.
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Old 06-14-2020, 04:12 PM   #54
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And I'll interject 2 thoughts on this(as I may be in the same type situation, but won't acknowledge due to the "weight police").
From a reputable RV magazine:
1. There is NO SUCH THING as a 1/2 ton towable 5th wheel, despite what a given auto or RV manufacturer tells you.
2. Half of ALL 5th wheels on the road are overweight somewhere.

After hashing weight #'s myself for the last 9 months and talks with many people, including auto engineers that I know, I believe the 2nd point to be true. Seems everybody doesn't care about GVWR, just payload when the GVWR is the more important #.
And to start another arguement, from one of the auto engineers that told me that the weight #'s have lots of 'fudge factor' built into them, a way to calculate a truer GVWR, with your weight ticket subtract the empty RAW from 'hooked up' RAW and add to your GVW. That # is a real world GVWR.
Example:
RAW with camper 6340
RAWR - 3460

= 2880
GVW(truck ready to hook up to camper) + 8560

Real world GVWR 11440


Couple of things;

First, please enlighten us with which auto manufacturer these "engineers" work for so we can avoid those products....he's just wrong and doing a disservice to you and anyone he tells that garbage to.

Secondly, I don't think most folks knowingly disregard GVWR or payload (the interaction between the 2 has been explained by xrated). I do believe however there are untold numbers of folks that buy mismatched truck/RV combos out of ignorance. Some ask around and find they are overloaded and try to fix it; some find they are overloaded and try to rationalize it to themselves (in their minds) and to others; then there are those that just don't care (hell! It's got a 1000lbs. of torque, it can pull anything!). The ones in the first group take the appropriate, safe path to address the situation.

As far as your "engineer's" explanation of "fudge factor". Yes, it is there. Your gawr's will be more than your gvw. As has been explained that is THE fudge factor put in by the manufacturers because they know people cannot and will not abide by the published numbers....so they make some room for "those" people. Anyone that then believes the gawr numbers are where they need to stop....oh, but a few hundred more lbs. won't matter; well, what can you say? Bottom line is that the numbers are the numbers. When the manufacturer say for each of them: MUST not exceed; DO NOT exceed - that's what they mean and I'm sure the jury of your choice would point that out.
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Old 06-14-2020, 05:08 PM   #55
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tireman

I have load range e tires and rims rated at 3960lbs, 80psi.

Interesting. I find LR-F ST235/85R16 tires rated for 3,960 @ 95 psi


I FIND AN ST255/85R16 LR-E rated for 4080# I wonder what brand your tires are and if they are violating DOT guidelines.
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Old 06-14-2020, 05:17 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by jimborokz View Post
Rest easy, the scales you see on the Interstate are not for RV's, only commercial vehicles.
The scales being referred to here are the ones you voluntarily go to, usually at a truck stop so you can get the "real numbers" of your set up the way you have it loaded for camping. The sticker weights for the trailer are dry weight and pin weight with no load. Once you load up all your gear you'll want to get it weighed so you know what your actual load and balance is.
Knowledge is good and can make for a much more comfortable ride.



Not sure what "sticker" you are talking about. By Federal Regulation (law) every RV trailer has a "Certification Label" AKA "Tire Placard" on the driver side, outside, toward the front. The information may be on one or more individual stickers but toy have one with Tire Size, including Load Range and a statement of GAWR for each axle and the inflation needed to support that GAWR. GAWR is not empty or dry RV but the most load you should ever have on that axle. The vehicle VIN and manufacturer information is also on these stickers.
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Old 06-14-2020, 05:28 PM   #57
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Wonder how many, if any of you have watched or understand the information from RVSEF on how to match truck to trailer.
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Old 06-14-2020, 06:05 PM   #58
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Wonder how many, if any of you have watched or understand the information from RVSEF on how to match truck to trailer.
I've never seen that video before, but honestly, he didn't tell me anything new. I've done countless hours of research and studying and learning about towing dynamics and what it takes to safely tow and stay within all the truck and trailer's weight capacities. It would be a great video for some that is in the process of trying to learn about the subject though, and thank for posting it.
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Old 06-15-2020, 03:11 AM   #59
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Not sure what "sticker" you are talking about. By Federal Regulation (law) every RV trailer has a "Certification Label" AKA "Tire Placard" on the driver side, outside, toward the front. The information may be on one or more individual stickers but toy have one with Tire Size, including Load Range and a statement of GAWR for each axle and the inflation needed to support that GAWR. GAWR is not empty or dry RV but the most load you should ever have on that axle. The vehicle VIN and manufacturer information is also on these stickers.
I should not have used the term sticker. I was referring to that beautiful brochure folks look at in the rv showroom to get the "specs" for the trailer they are looking at. That pin weight they give you there is based on dry weight I believe.

Another problem I think may happen to new RV shoppers is the way truck ads emphasize towing power. This truck can pull 25,000 lbs. I don't think I have ever seen a tv ad or read one or had a salesman ever mention payload.

I thought I had more than enough truck when I bought mine. Then I landed here and got my weight education. I got my set up weighed and came to the real world. I'm OK on payload but not by the margin I would like.
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Old 06-15-2020, 03:29 AM   #60
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I should not have used the term sticker. I was referring to that beautiful brochure folks look at in the rv showroom to get the "specs" for the trailer they are looking at. That pin weight they give you there is based on dry weight I believe.

Another problem I think may happen to new RV shoppers is the way truck ads emphasize towing power. This truck can pull 25,000 lbs. I don't think I have ever seen a tv ad or read one or had a salesman ever mention payload.

I thought I had more than enough truck when I bought mine. Then I landed here and got my weight education. I got my set up weighed and came to the real world. I'm OK on payload but not by the margin I would like.
When towing 5th Wheel Camping Type Trailers, the most important number to be concerned with is the PAYLOAD number of the tow vehicle. Almost every single time, the truck will run out of available payload capacity long before your reach the towing capacity of the truck. I have preached this repeatedly, both from personal experience and from a knowledge standpoint. And to further this fact, there IS a huge difference between towing a 5th Wheel Camping Type Trailer... vs... a flatbed utility type trailer. And one other thing to point out, when the truck manufacturers make a statement about how much the truck is capable of towing.....there is NEVER a reference to 5th Wheel Camping Trailer in particular.....they just say "Trailer". Of course we as campers automatically think that they are talking about 5th wheel camping trailers.......THEY ARE NOT! And again, PAYLOAD capacity is the weight rating that is first and foremost when towing a 5ver camping trailer... vs... a flatbed or utility trailer.
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