Tundra as a Tow Vehicle for 24' Bunkhouse

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by flyfishMT

No kidding. Come on Toyota make an HD

Looking at it from a "business perspective", Toyota is making all the money they projected with their current truck lines. This is an election year and although much is "a given" there's no "guarantee of the results". So, depending on the outcome in November, the current economy may take a sharp trend in another direction.

So, with their business model "on track" why would Toyota risk the expense and potential loss to engineer and produce a HD truck, especially with the recent failure of the Nissan attempt to "break into the market"????

I don't see any "serious Toyota competition" in the HD market at least for the next several years, if ever. With all of their past experience in the truck market for many, many years. I'd suspect they'll stay out of the competition. They seem to have "found their niche" with the compact truck line and the full size half ton line.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Looking at it from a "business perspective", Toyota is making all the money they projected with their current truck lines. This is an election year and although much is "a given" there's no "guarantee of the results". So, depending on the outcome in November, the current economy may take a sharp trend in another direction.

So, with their business model "on track" why would Toyota risk the expense and potential loss to engineer and produce a HD truck, especially with the recent failure of the Nissan attempt to "break into the market"????

I don't see any "serious Toyota competition" in the HD market at least for the next several years, if ever. With all of their past experience in the truck market for many, many years. I'd suspect they'll stay out of the competition. They seem to have "found their niche" with the compact truck line and the full size half ton line.

^^^^ This will be the answer. Toyota, nor Japan (yes they hold the purse strings) have no idea of building an HD truck without reverse engineering a big 3 product. And, with the following that the big 3 trucks have they would have a great uphill battle. The Japanese make/design great, dependable products...they just don't have any experience towing 20k trailers...oh, would that extend off into the ocean in their country...

[flyfishMT]

Originally Posted by Tetons

Like the original poster, a 2016 Tundra crew cab 5.7L
I assume numbers reported are empty - they are what is reported in the manual(s)

Numbers were from my pillar stickers

[Ken / Claudia]

I like competition and have said for years I wish Toyota and Nissan would make 3/4 and 1 ton pickups. Give the big 3 competition, maybe prices would go down a little and quality going up. Build them in the USA.

[flyfishMT]

Originally Posted by SummitPond

As identified above, your payload capability is the GVWR less the curb weight of the TV, and this is typically limiting on this category of truck. Thus your curb weight is 7,100# - 1,300# = 5,800#.

The GCWR (combined TV and TT) number is typically in the owner manual or in the manufacturer tow guide (found online), so in this case 7,100# plus whatever the TT weighs (use GVWR for both units to be conservative).

It looks as if your towing capacity is only 6,800#; I didn't look up your various models, but no matter what TV you use - this is also an important number to watch.

The axle numbers can only be truly verified by weighing your rig on a CAT scale or similar. Again, you don't want to be overloaded on this number either.

As an example, here are my numbers when we packed for a month-long trip followed by an extended (multi-month) stay at the terminus of our trip:

TV GVWR/GVW: 10,000#/7,900# (21% margin)
TV Steer axle rating/actual: 4,550#/4,100# (9.8% margin)
TV Drive axle rating/actual: 6,100#/4,580# (24.9% margin)
TV GCWR/GCW: 19,000#/14,540# (23.4% margin)
TV tow capacity/actual: 12,400#/6,620# (54.4%)

TT GVWR/GVW: 7,000#/6,620# (5.4% margin)

As you can see, the TV has 10% or more margin on all limits. I have tandem 3,500# axles on the TT, but the CAT scale doesn't provide individual values for each axle on the TT, only the TV.

Ok, I have looked these numbers up in my owner's manual for my model number. I have a Doublecab 4WD, tow package, large fuel tank,

• GCWR: 16,000lb.
• TWR: 9,800lb.

So do I have this right?


16,000 - 7100 = 8900 = max trailer GVWR.

Is TWR towing capacity? So do I take the lesser of these numbers? (And I hear you on a % safety margin).

These numbers are higher than your examples, does this change your opinion?

It seems my limitation is really my payload?

Man this is like math class.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by flyfishMT

Ok, I have looked these numbers up in my owner's manual for my model number. I have a Doublecab 4WD, tow package, large fuel tank,

• GCWR: 16,000lb.
• TWR: 9,800lb.

So do I have this right?


16,000 - 7100 = 8900 = max trailer GVWR.

Is TWR towing capacity? So do I take the lesser of these numbers? (And I hear you on a % safety margin).

These numbers are higher than your examples, does this change your opinion?

It seems my limitation is really my payload?

Man this is like math class.

The only numbers that are applicable are the numbers on the door jamb of your truck. To simplify the math you don't have enough (any) numbers left over after adding up the loads and subtracting from your max payload. What you do with this information is you're decision but it will not alter the fact that your truck is not capable of safety towing that load.

And we haven't even begun the conversation about the difference of a big, long box with a high center of gravity and wind resistance VS a Similar weight on a low trailer like towing bricks on a flatbed.

[flyfishMT]

Originally Posted by flybouy

The only numbers that are applicable are the numbers on the door jamb of your truck. To simplify the math you don't have enough (any) numbers left over after adding up the loads and subtracting from your max payload. What you do with this information is you're decision but it will not alter the fact that your truck is not capable of safety towing that load.

And we haven't even begun the conversation about the difference of a big, long box with a high center of gravity and wind resistance VS a Similar weight on a low trailer like towing bricks on a flatbed.

Got to admit you guys are confusing me. I've been told to check the numbers in my manual, and door jamb, and now to ignore the manual numbers. And if I don't have any numbers left - I need to understand how that pencils out with my numbers so I can fully understand. I assume you must mean with the trailers in my original question but at this point I am trying to research what trailer will work for me - other than those.



I think I've presented all numbers I have so I think I need to do some research to understand this a little better so I'm not asking silly questions - the confusion is definitely on my end! I admit I haven't tried very hard myself was just looking for an easy answer! Thanks

[flyfishMT]

How I am understanding it, since payload is my limiting factor, I could look for a trailer with say a max of 6500lbs *loaded* weight (including propane, batteries), such that 6500 * .13 = a max of ~ 800lbs pin weight, which would leave me 500lbs of payload for gear. So that would leave me looking at around say 5000 -5500lb UVW trailers. Just a SWAG, but trying to keeping it simple.

[chuckster57]

Your doing good! The owners manuals are printed for a wide variety of models and not specific to yours.

The reason we are asking about the yellow sticker on the drivers door is because it is specific to YOUR truck. Choice of hitch can have a huge impact on what size/weight trailer you can safely/legally hook up to. Good W/D with sway will weigh in the neighborhood of 75-100 pounds. You can get a hitch that weighs more than 200 pounds and costs more than $2500.00. Is it better? I don’t tow a TT so I can’t say.

Once you have the truck numbers, then look for a trailer that fits. The 13% of GVWR is probably a good place to start as it should include the battery and propane. It can be a long tiresome task, but you don’t want to skimp on your safety, and the safety of others.

[NH_Bulldog]

Keep in mind that factory specs for the trailer tongue weight only account for the bare unit with no battery, no water in the tank, no cargo and empty propane tank(s). Mine was listed at 550 lbs tongue weight, then I filled the two propane tanks, added two 27 series batteries, added our gear and some water in the fresh water tank. My tongue weight grew to about 900 pounds trip-ready.

Basically anything in the trailer that is forward of the axle(s) will add weight. Take that tongue weight, add the weight of everything in/on the truck that was not installed on the assembly line (all occupants, pets, gear, accessories, fuel, weight distribution hitch, etc.). If the truck’s cargo capacity is exceeded, stop here and go no further. There is no point talking about trailer weight, trailer frontal area, axle ratios, drag coefficient, tire load range, etc.

[Logan X]

Originally Posted by flyfishMT

Ok, I have looked these numbers up in my owner's manual for my model number. I have a Doublecab 4WD, tow package, large fuel tank,

• GCWR: 16,000lb.
• TWR: 9,800lb.

So do I have this right?


16,000 - 7100 = 8900 = max trailer GVWR.

Is TWR towing capacity? So do I take the lesser of these numbers? (And I hear you on a % safety margin).

These numbers are higher than your examples, does this change your opinion?

It seems my limitation is really my payload?

Man this is like math class.

You are on the right track here. 16000 pound GCWR minus the fully loaded truck is the max you can tow-8900 pounds.

However, you also can’t exceed any other limits, like your payload capacity. You are correct when you say payload is your limiting factor with a travel trailer loaded for camping. If you were towing a short flatbed trailer with a pallet of bricks and you were the only occupant it the truck, you could probably tow “the max tow number” of 8900 pounds or at least get closer to it.

[Northofu1]

Kudos fly for coming here pre-trailer looking for the right numbers.

[flyfishMT]

Time to break out the old tent haha. This has been enlightening to say the least. What I wanna know is how often a newbie joins here and asks these sames questions - once a week?! Thanks for everyone's patience!

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by flyfishMT

Time to break out the old tent haha. This has been enlightening to say the least. What I wanna know is how often a newbie joins here and asks these sames questions - once a week?! Thanks for everyone's patience!

What happens most is a newbie joins saying they already bought a trailer and is their TV big enough.

[Tetons]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

What happens most is a newbie joins saying they already bought a trailer and is their TV big enough.

Yep - Put the cart before the horse (me)!

Can/will someone explain to me the difference, if there is one, between combined weight occupants and cargo (1,175) and payload (1,530)?
Thanks.

[Logan X]

Originally Posted by flyfishMT

Time to break out the old tent haha. This has been enlightening to say the least. What I wanna know is how often a newbie joins here and asks these sames questions - once a week?! Thanks for everyone's patience!

It’s nice to have someone who listens to what everyone is saying and doesn’t get defensive, so thank you for that. I think I can speak for everyone when I say everyone who has responded to this thread with advice has done so because they like helping people. We are happy to help and all we want is for you to have a good, safe, towing and camping experience.

[Logan X]

Originally Posted by Tetons

Yep - Put the cart before the horse (me)!

Can/will someone explain to me the difference, if there is one, between combined weight occupants and cargo (1,175) and payload (1,530)?
Thanks.

My guess is the “combined weight of occupants and cargo” number is on the sticker in your door. That is the payload for your specific vehicle.

The “payload” number you cite I’m guessing came from a website or sales brochure and is a marketing number that doesn’t apply to your specific vehicle.

Either way, the sticker inside of the door of a vehicle which says “all occupants and cargo shall not exceed xxxx”. That is the payload capacity.

[Tetons]

Originally Posted by Logan X

My guess is the “combined weight of occupants and cargo” number is on the sticker in your door. That is the payload for your specific vehicle.

The “payload” number you cite I’m guessing came from a website or sales brochure and is a marketing number that doesn’t apply to your specific vehicle.

Either way, the sticker inside of the door of a vehicle which says “all occupants and cargo shall not exceed xxxx”. That is the payload capacity.

Ok - This makes sense, I think. Yes, the "combined wt of occupants and cargo 1,175" is the sticker on the door. Wow...weak number.
So, I should be adding trailer tongue wt (+ gear in camper) in addition to my occupants and anything in the truck should not surpass 1,175?

Thanks again for everyones patience!

[notanlines]

Yes, you are absolutely correct.

[Logan X]

Originally Posted by Tetons

Ok - This makes sense, I think. Yes, the "combined wt of occupants and cargo 1,175" is the sticker on the door. Wow...weak number.
So, I should be adding trailer tongue wt (+ gear in camper) in addition to my occupants and anything in the truck should not surpass 1,175?

Thanks again for everyones patience!

Add the loaded tongue weight plus occupants and cargo in the truck. That amount can not exceed your payload capacity. (Which is what I think you are saying)

To get the loaded tongue weight estimate, take the GVWR for the trailer and multiply it by .12. That will give you a pretty good estimate of the real world tongue weight as 12% of your loaded trailer.

I took a look at your earlier post which says your trucks GVWR is 7200 pounds and the curb weight is 5670 pounds. If those numbers are correct then the payload number on your door sticker (all cargo and occupants should not exceed xxxx) should read 1530 pounds.

GVWR-curb weight = payload capacity