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Old 03-10-2020, 04:42 PM   #1
flyfishMT
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Tundra as a Tow Vehicle for 24' Bunkhouse

Hi all, New member here. I asked this question on the Jayco forums a while back; I'm shopping a Jayco 242BHS, a Keystone Springdale 240BHS, and a Keystone Hideout 24BHSWE.


I have a 1/2 ton 2016 Toyota Tundra, 5.7L engine, 4.30 gearing.


The payload on my door jamb says 1300 pounds.


Looks like the hitch weight of the Springdale is 690 pounds, and the hideout 720 pounds. (The jayco was 685).


I have E-Rated 10 ply tires.


Do I have enough truck to safely carry my family and our in gear while towing these trailers? I am not worried about the power, more the payload, axle rating, and mostly the handling. I plan to get a good weight distribution hitch - was planning on a blue ox sway pro, and am not opposed to Timbrens or airbags.

I wouldn't have thought too much about this but I had a Hideout I was going to buy and the owner said I needed a 3/4 ton.

Anyways, I appreciate any advice. I just don't want to get into something I am not safe or comfortable driving.


Thanks!
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Old 03-10-2020, 05:03 PM   #2
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Welcome to the forum.

Please take a photo of the white and yellow stickers that are posted on the driver's door or door jamb. This has more information regarding axle ratings, GVWR, etc that is needed. Also you might look at your owner's manual or a tow guide to see what the GCWR and tow limit are for your TV. Those pieces of information would be helpful, too. Payload isn't the only number to consider.
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Old 03-10-2020, 05:08 PM   #3
Ken / Claudia
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Welcome to the forum, but your doing what most new RVes do. Using the shipped/empty tongue wt. of a RV. Do not do that, it will get you into trouble esp. with a 1/2 ton tow vehicle.
Use at least for a close figure the GVWR of the trailer, say 10,000. Than use 12 to 15 percent of that number to get real tongue wt.
What ever RV you buy you should drive over a scale and get your loaded wt.s.
As an example, see my listed vehicles. The tongue that was in the booklet said 560 lbs. I had it loaded for 2 on a 3 day trip with full fresh water and of course 2 full propane tanks and 2 batteries on the tongue. The real tongue wt. was 920 lbs.
Check to see if your payload considers full fuel tank.
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Old 03-10-2020, 05:12 PM   #4
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Short answer is no. From that 1,300 lb payload capacity you need to deduct 800 lbs for tongue weight (don’t believe published tongue weights as they don’t typically include battery and filled weights of propane tanks), then deduct hitch weight of around 100 lbs, then deduct weight of a full tank of gas, the weight of all passengers and equipment (basically deduct the weight of anything that didn’t come installed from the factory). My guess is you are well into negative territory by this point and that also means no safety margin. The Tundra is certainly a capable truck, just not for this situation. If a different truck isn’t in the budget, you may want to consider a hybrid trailer that will give you the room for everyone but at a much lower weight. Good luck and please consider your precious cargo before you decide to buy a trailer that you cannot safely tow.

We have a Passport 240Bh and my loaded weights (scales), gives me a few hundred lbs leeway, but I have a Max Tow package with a cargo capacity over 2,000 lbs. it works and we are safe, but next truck will be a 3/4 ton
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Old 03-10-2020, 05:17 PM   #5
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The simple answer is no. Any camper with a 700 lb empty tongue weight will be near a 1,000 lbs. loaded. Add another good 150 lbs for a wd hitch and you're 1,300 lb payload will be exceeded as soon as you set behind the steering wheel. If you are looking at those type trailers you need more truck.
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Old 03-10-2020, 05:58 PM   #6
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Yeah, your Tundra probably isn't going to be adequate for those units. Tundras have lots of strengths, but towing trailers isn't one of them. If you like that length and cannot upgrade trucks you have 2 options: 1) you could consider an ultralight version of those rigs, like a Passport or a Bullet. The Hideout and Springdale are both wood framed and will thus weigh several hundred pounds more than the Bullet/Passport. 2) As others have suggested, you could look at a hybrid model, which weigh a lot less than your selected models.
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Old 03-10-2020, 07:17 PM   #7
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I have a Hideout 24BHSWE and the actual loaded tongue weight is closer to 1000 pounds...so no, the Tundra won’t work. (You will exceed the payload capacity of your truck and probably the gross combined weight rating)

I tow with a 3/4 ton Diesel and I would not tow a trailer my size with anything less than a 3/4 ton.
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Old 03-10-2020, 07:57 PM   #8
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Also that 240 - 242 model number in most cases is not the actual RV length, that model is more likely nearer 26 to 28' in length.
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Old 03-11-2020, 10:15 AM   #9
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Springdale 240BH

Length - 28' 11"
GVW - 7690
Tongue weight at 13% of gvw = 999.70 lbs.

Hideout 24BHS

Length - 28.42"
GVW - 7720
Tongue weight @ 13% gvw = 1003.6 lbs.

First, good on that owner that was watching out for you!

The weights above indicate you will probably run around 1000lbs. on tongue weight. With a 1300 pound payload capacity it tells you a couple of things; 1) the truck wasn't designed to be towing a trailer of any size and 2) with a trailer the size of either of the above you will be over payload and probably gawr along with gvw. Those things tell you it won't be very safe for the family - especially when you mention "gear". I doubt you have enough capacity for the family much less any gear for fun - btdt and it ain't fun.

Also remember that suspension aids; Timbrens, air bags, SumSprings etc. don't help your payload/gvw at all. In fact, the deduct from it because they are added weight.

I commend you asking beforehand and keeping the safety of your family front and center - some don't. Maybe you could look into a smaller or lighter trailer. Of course a larger truck would open up your choices for a trailer, plus a Toyota retains its value very, very well sot that might be an option.
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Old 03-11-2020, 11:23 AM   #10
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All, thanks for all the great info. To answer SummitPond - from my pillar sticker, my GVWR is 7100lb, GAWR FRT: 4000lb, RR: 4150lb. How do these numbers fit into the equation with payload of what I can tow?

Also, for what it's worth, I have read Tundra uses a more stringent SAE standard for payload testing. I will say I currently tow a single axle camper with UVW 2893 always with 36 gallons water (and typically a bed loaded with gear!) from the house and can't hardly tell it's back there. The manufacturer claims 295lb hitch weight but I think you're saying this is actually 376lbs.

Not trying to disagree with anything said here! - just more info from my research and experience.

EDIT - I have read the payload number includes a tank of gas and 2 150lb passengers as well. A tank of gas is substantial - I have a 38 gallon tank.
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Old 03-11-2020, 12:04 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfishMT View Post
All, thanks for all the great info. To answer SummitPond - from my pillar sticker, my GVWR is 7100lb, GAWR FRT: 4000lb, RR: 4150lb. How do these numbers fit into the equation with payload of what I can tow?

Also, for what it's worth, I have read Tundra uses a more stringent SAE standard for payload testing. I will say I currently tow a single axle camper with UVW 2893 always with 36 gallons water (and typically a bed loaded with gear!) from the house and can't hardly tell it's back there. The manufacturer claims 295lb hitch weight but I think you're saying this is actually 376lbs.

Not trying to disagree with anything said here! - just more info from my research and experience.

EDIT - I have read the payload number includes a tank of gas and 2 150lb passengers as well. A tank of gas is substantial - I have a 38 gallon tank.
Payload is the gross vehicle weight rating, you say that's 7,100 lb. - the actual weight of the truck. The door pillar sticker with the tire info will typically have that capacity on it. Now, that sticker is when the truck rolled out of the factory. Deduct anything that you put in the truck i.e. tools, maps, floor mats, gear that put in the bed, etc. Add about 150 lbs. for a weight distributing hitch.

Now, look at the tongue weight of the camper. The published number is when the camper rolled out of the factory so it DOES NOT include the weight of the battery, propane tanks, water, gray or black tank contents, or anything else that you put in the camper i.e. cooking pots/pans, plates/silverware, clothing, linens for the beds, food, beverages, toys, etc. The common number to use for the loaded tongue weight is take the max trailer weight and multiply by .13 or .15. It will depend on how it's loaded (more weight forward of axles will add more tongue weight,

This is a harsh reality that a lot of 1/2 ton truck owners go thru when they realize they just cannot safely tow a larger trailer. No here is trying to "rain on you're parade" Most of us have been there done that and are just trying to prevent others from making the same mistakes we made.
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Old 03-11-2020, 01:57 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by flyfishMT View Post
All, thanks for all the great info. To answer SummitPond - from my pillar sticker, my GVWR is 7100lb, GAWR FRT: 4000lb, RR: 4150lb. How do these numbers fit into the equation with payload of what I can tow?

Also, for what it's worth, I have read Tundra uses a more stringent SAE standard for payload testing. I will say I currently tow a single axle camper with UVW 2893 always with 36 gallons water (and typically a bed loaded with gear!) from the house and can't hardly tell it's back there. The manufacturer claims 295lb hitch weight but I think you're saying this is actually 376lbs.

Not trying to disagree with anything said here! - just more info from my research and experience.

EDIT - I have read the payload number includes a tank of gas and 2 150lb passengers as well. A tank of gas is substantial - I have a 38 gallon tank.


As Marshall pointed out, there really isn't any "testing" that makes Toyota's numbers better than the big 3. GVW - Actual truck weight = payload.
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Old 03-11-2020, 07:11 PM   #13
flyfishMT
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As Marshall pointed out, there really isn't any "testing" that makes Toyota's numbers better than the big 3. GVW - Actual truck weight = payload.
Yes sorry I misspoke there. You all have me dreaming about an HD truck now (or picturing camping in our cramped little trailer for the unforeseeable future)
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Old 03-11-2020, 07:24 PM   #14
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Yes sorry I misspoke there. You all have me dreaming about an HD truck now (or picturing camping in our cramped little trailer for the unforeseeable future)

Dreaming about the HD....and you live in the PERFECT HD territory! Good luck on getting there. FYI, I've pulled that trigger many times and have never been sorry....yet.
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Old 03-11-2020, 11:19 PM   #15
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It's notable that most of the responses here have provided sound, prudent advice.

On the other hand, it's also noteworthy to read the responses from the Jayco owners forum where the OP originally requested advice on his truck's capabilities. Most offered up opposite sentiments.

Talk about disparities.

https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f...bhs-68673.html
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Old 03-12-2020, 01:57 AM   #16
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It's notable that most of the responses here have provided sound, prudent advice.

On the other hand, it's also noteworthy to read the responses from the Jayco owners forum where the OP originally requested advice on his truck's capabilities. Most offered up opposite sentiments.

Talk about disparities.

https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f...bhs-68673.html
I look at the numbers and give my thoughts and relate my experiences. What other forums or individuals do is up to them. Numbers don't lie. If a person is exceeding the numbers published on the vehicle for THAT vehicle then I cannot promote that.

There will always be folks who believe those numbers are just a guideline, aren't real, doesn't apply to them "because they only tow short distances" or "we always pack light"and the excuses go on. Then you read the "my F100 45 year old truck is the same as a new F350", or "I've been doin it for years, no problem".

I believe both groups have 2 things in common. 1. they have been lucky thus far 2. they have never driven over a scale. As I stated, I for one would never promote towing beyond the capacity of the vehicle and I wouldn't want to buy one of the vehicles that have used like that.

JMHO
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Old 03-12-2020, 02:50 AM   #17
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I can only imagine what the Tundra site would suggest....
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Old 03-12-2020, 02:59 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by flybouy View Post
I look at the numbers and give my thoughts and relate my experiences. What other forums or individuals do is up to them. Numbers don't lie. If a person is exceeding the numbers published on the vehicle for THAT vehicle then I cannot promote that.

There will always be folks who believe those numbers are just a guideline, aren't real, doesn't apply to them "because they only tow short distances" or "we always pack light"and the excuses go on. Then you read the "my F100 45 year old truck is the same as a new F350", or "I've been doin it for years, no problem".

I believe both groups have 2 things in common. 1. they have been lucky thus far 2. they have never driven over a scale. As I stated, I for one would never promote towing beyond the capacity of the vehicle and I wouldn't want to buy one of the vehicles that have used like that.

JMHO
I'm in agreement with most of what you state. The manufacturer's specifications are there for a reason. A truck scale can validate any question.

Unfortunately, many social media outlets and online owners forums are populated with members who "chance" it out for months (or years) without any of the validity that I see among long term members of this forum. These folks believe their "experience" is the bible of towing and project their beliefs on the new RV owner. Just open up a Facebook group and it won't take long to witness this boastfulness first hand
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Old 03-12-2020, 03:11 AM   #19
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I know some people that "brag" about "getting away with _" or "Getting over on someone". To me it's "getting away with their own stupidity" and it doesn't impress me but when it endangers me, my family or the public at large then that's when I take issue with it. If someone wants to "live on the edge" or "play Russian Roulette" while going down the highway then don't endanger me with your recklessness or disregard for the vehicle's limitations.
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Old 03-12-2020, 05:28 AM   #20
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