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Old 02-15-2019, 07:09 PM   #21
sourdough
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
Looking forward to your presentation of the physical evidence that confirmes "China Bomb" as the root cause of various failures. This evidence would, of course, be of great interest to the engineers that contributed to the TIA Condition Manuals (Passenger, Light Truck & Heavy Truck editions).
Photos or chemical analysis of the claimed "defects" would be most helpful to the tire industry as a whole. Simply making a claim for the presence of a suspect "defect" is not sufficient. Actual evidence is what is needed if one wants to establish the "guilt" of certain tires.


RE RVSEF data. As I understand it, this consists of 10 to 20,000 measurements collected since 1993 at numerous locations across the country. RV owners paid a fee to have their RV weighed. This data corroborates similar data collected by US DOT in relation to the Ford Explorer recall that demonstrated a good portion of the driving public operating at "significant" levels of underinflation. This data is a major portion of why all new cars come with TPMS. During the investigation phase of the Explorer situation well over 10,000 tires were collected and inspected with over 4,000 receiving "cut tire autopsy" level of inspection. So there is data to support that high tire failure rates are directly related to high rates of operation in underinflated/overloaded condition.


I do find your request that I need to prove the negative to reject your claim of the still mysterious "China Bomb" condition a bit telling. If you want to make a claim then you need to present evidence to support the claim. It is not my responsibility or the responsibility of others to disprove your claim.



At this point, until you can provide the physical evidence of your claimed "China Bomb" condition and the data that supports the idea that tires with this condition are prone to failure and those without the "defect" will not fail, I am done spending my time with you on this topic.


Carry on. I've found throughout life that "real life" experiences always mean more to me than "theories". But, I'm still waiting for those statistics on those "guilty" ST tires...not a Ford Explorer. I'm done with this as well.
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Old 02-16-2019, 09:54 AM   #22
Ken / Claudia
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Ok, it was not real fair to ask a question and not explaining. I just thought some would know.
I see many more times the number of tire failures on passenger vehicles than RV trailers because there are many more passenger vehicles on the road than RVs.
But, my point is there are many blow outs/flats on passenger vehicles with any brand tire and I beleive after dealing with them that the reasons tend to be the same, age, under inflation etc. Granted the P, LT tires or any on a passenger vehicle last longer and might hold up better, but many people drive them into the cords, or under inflated or even 20 years old with tread still on them. Most just drive to side of road and do not have vehicle damage. So we do not hear much about them.
My testing ground is the freeway with around 200,000 vehicles passing thru daily. Thats 1 road. I worked many miles on other roads, I just do not have the vehicles counts on those.
I did see 3 deaths caused by rotten/ wore out tires resulting in a crash. One a sports car, a fire truck and a motorcycle in 12 years of patrol work. That's why I am not a China bomb name caller.
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Old 02-16-2019, 11:13 AM   #23
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I have absolutely no experience in tire engineering or design. But I do know this. I purchased my 1st set of replacement tires (Carlisle Radial Trail HDs) for the OEM Trailer Kings during my first camping season. The Carlisle's were significantly more stout and robust as I compared both side by side. Even my wife commented on the difference.

Obviously this is a subjective observation based on nothing empirical. But it was an observation. If I were given the choice of which tires I'd have on my coach from day one (after personally seeing both Carlisle and TKs in a showroom), I would choose the Carlisles every single time. I'd say the same thing about Maxxis M8008s and Goodyear Endurance's if they took the place of the Carlisles. I've seen those in person too.

With that said, I'm a true believer in having proper reserve load capacity to help mitigate premature tire failures no matter the brand. If a manufacturer offered a higher load range tire for a marginal fee, I wonder how many buyers would justify and agree to it? And if it were mandated, would there even be a discussion on the topic in the first place?
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Old 02-17-2019, 09:31 AM   #24
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Old 02-17-2019, 09:38 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by busterbrown View Post
I have absolutely no experience in tire engineering or design. But I do know this. I purchased my 1st set of replacement tires (Carlisle Radial Trail HDs) for the OEM Trailer Kings during my first camping season. The Carlisle's were significantly more stout and robust as I compared both side by side. Even my wife commented on the difference.

Obviously this is a subjective observation based on nothing empirical. But it was an observation. If I were given the choice of which tires I'd have on my coach from day one (after personally seeing both Carlisle and TKs in a showroom), I would choose the Carlisles every single time. I'd say the same thing about Maxxis M8008s and Goodyear Endurance's if they took the place of the Carlisles. I've seen those in person too.

With that said, I'm a true believer in having proper reserve load capacity to help mitigate premature tire failures no matter the brand. If a manufacturer offered a higher load range tire for a marginal fee, I wonder how many buyers would justify and agree to it? And if it were mandated, would there even be a discussion on the topic in the first place?

Switching to a higher Load Range C>D or D> E etc can be a good move as long as you also increase the inflation as it is the inflation pressure that supports the load. As you get to LR-E and above there are also "Commercial" grade tires with all steel construction. These will also be more expensive and since many buy tires based on the lowest cost there are fewer of these in use.


You are correct about having a reasonable Reserve load. I and others consider 15% to be a basic level of reserve load. Few realize that most cars have 20% to 30%+ Reserve load which is one reason being a few psi low on inflation doesn't turn into a higher rate of failure in that application.
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Old 02-21-2019, 08:23 AM   #26
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I ran the crap out of the factory tires. Dont remember the brand. The only thing effecting the tires from the day it was bought was 2 bent axles, one slightly more than the other, that was shaving the tires. I had the axles "straightened/aligned" at a shop and still ran those same tires to the end with NO issues.

Have no issues with my replacements, and yes from Walmart. I looked into going up to the next rating but did not as it would not benefit my trailer but to make it too hard and bounce the trailer more. I keep the pressures up where they need to be, avoid curbs and hazards when possible.

I believe most tires come from but a few factories that make several "brands".

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Old 02-21-2019, 08:33 AM   #27
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Thank you for the tire discussion. I have a 2019 Keystone Cougar 5th wheel with
about 5K miles on the tires. Yes they are the Trailer King tires 15".

So what is a good replacement tire??
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Old 02-21-2019, 08:40 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Phil Saran View Post
Thank you for the tire discussion. I have a 2019 Keystone Cougar 5th wheel with
about 5K miles on the tires. Yes they are the Trailer King tires 15".

So what is a good replacement tire??
The quick answer is a reputable brand (Carlisle, Maxxis, Goodyear) that provides at least the same load carrying capacity as the OEM fitment. It's even more advantageous to go up in load range (if possible) to maximize reserve load capacities.
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Old 02-21-2019, 08:42 AM   #29
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I follow these threads to learn and make an educated decision. I appreciate Tireman9 and others for facts. I also do layman's research. On my last 4 or 5 campers I have traded new OEM tires to go up at least 1 rating. 3 5ers back I went to Carlise ~ made in China without a problem. My last 5er was GY G614 without a problem. Things change and on the current 5er it is Sailun China bombs without a problem as I find them with the fewest complaints (actually only 1). My 5er gvwr is 15,200 and scales just over 14,000. I run 235/85 /16 rated at 4400# per tire over the 80 series at 4080#. After thousands of miles the extra bounce has caused no problems but not sure I'd do that on a lite model.
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Old 02-21-2019, 08:45 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Phil Saran View Post
Thank you for the tire discussion. I have a 2019 Keystone Cougar 5th wheel with
about 5K miles on the tires. Yes they are the Trailer King tires 15".

So what is a good replacement tire??
Surprised to see they are 15". In 2016 they were 16" and I went from LRE to Carlisle LR F.
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Old 02-21-2019, 09:04 AM   #31
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I must be lucky.

I have a set of 14" Trailer Kings DC: 0916 LR:C that have in excess of 20k miles since June of 2016. With no uneven wear or signs of separation or blemishes.

These are on my 2017 Bullet Premier 29rkpr.

I plan on replacing before this year's season but I think these have served me well. Probably won't replace with this brand though.

I am kind of in the same boat as you, I put 12k km's on them last summer, checked the pressure everywhere I landed and took off, never lost any pressure. They look really good, but, they are 5 yrs old this year so I'm replacing them. Not pushing my luck.

Some lofty reading here
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Old 02-21-2019, 09:37 AM   #32
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Our family motto: there are 2 kinds of people, those who make excuses and those who find a way. Always be the one who finds a way. Preventative maintenance is more important than where something was made.
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Old 02-21-2019, 09:42 AM   #33
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That's a good motto.
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Old 02-21-2019, 09:44 AM   #34
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My Bullet came with Trailer Kings. I've run them for several thousand miles, and kept a TPMS on them. Kept the tires properly inflated. Haven't had an issue, but because of the reputation, I will be putting on new tires this season. Will jump up in load range, to whatever the max my rims can handle. At least D range - hopefully E. I want all the tire capacity I can get. I like over-engineering... why else would I be pulling a dinky 24' ultra-lite with a Ram 3500?
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Old 02-21-2019, 09:44 AM   #35
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Tire issues

Gentlemen, so many words, so many opinions. I doubt this issue will be solved in this forum. Seems to me that a lot of folks simply try to get the most out of their dollars. So many discussions about grossly overloaded tow vehicles. Shame on dealers for putting naÔve buyers into overloaded situations. Same goes for tires. I have a half ton towable 30 foot Cougar that I tow with a new Ford F-350 Powerstroke. No overweight issue there. The Trailer King RST E rated 10 ply tires have worked great for me. With that being said, I will add that these tires have a nice cushion built in for the weight I tow. I have seen many 5ers with the exact tires on these trailers which have considerably more weight . I am not an expert and do not claim to be, however I can do simple math. Shame on the travel trailer manufacturers for putting on light weight tires that are grossly over loaded from the factory . Just my opinion fellas but donít blame the tires for being used outside their intended purpose.
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Old 02-21-2019, 09:55 AM   #36
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I don't like the "China bomb" moniker either. That's not to say I don't believe people who say they had a failure despite being properly inflated and not overweight. Every product, regardless of where its produced, has a failure rate, and I hope I never get caught in that numbers game.

"China bomb" is an emotional reaction, sometimes even based in prejudice, to a perception that all things made in China (or Asia for that matter) are crap. If they are all "bombs" waiting to go off, then they should all fail prematurely and that's simply not happening.

None of us knows how the tires were treated before we took possession of the trailer. Maybe the delivery driver was towing it way too fast. Maybe they hit a big pothole or a curb. These things could cause damage we can't see that would only get worse over time and eventually lead to tire failure (hopefully not catastrophic).

My solution is not perfect but here it is. On your first trip with a new (to you) trailer, get it weighed fully loaded for camping. If the tires on the trailer don't have a load rating with a good safety margin - say 15% - then replace them as soon as you can. If they do have a good safety margin compared to your actual weight, then keep them and practice good tire care to mitigate the chances of a failure. Check tire pressures daily when you're travelling. Check tire temps when you stop to see if any of them are significantly higher than the others. And regularly inspect for signs of belt separation. Get TPMS if you feel it will help.

And finally, ST tires age out before they wear out. So find the manufacturing date on the sidewalls and change them when the tires are 5 years old.
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Old 02-21-2019, 10:12 AM   #37
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So I would like to jump in and say something I have seen over many years. 1st I am not a tire engineer. I am a certified master automotive technician. I ran a towing company for many years. I have seen a lot of tire failures and accidents. I have owned trailers for many years. One thing I have seen is tires that sit a lot (Most RVs do) seem to have failures (separations) at the point where the tires were sitting on, for a along time. I always inspect my rigs before any trip. I had the correct air pressure and not over loaded. During one inspection we moved the trailer to my work location and then noticed that both tires on one side were separating. Both showed signs that it was the area were the trailer tires had been sitting for the summer. So my 2 cents from experience is to make sure your tires are good before the trip, take a very close look at the bottom of the tire if it was sitting for any time. Even checking tires and making sure the date codes are not too old, I had a tire failure a few years ago. Going only about 25 MPH I heard a load pop. Noticed it was one tire. Pulled over and it had a sidewall failure. Round hole about the size of a silver dollar. No other damage noted. Like any other product I dont buy the china bombs. Tires regardless of manufacture will have failures. As an operator it is the responsibility of the driver to make sure your rig is safe. I have a 2002 Ford F350 pulling a 2013 Raptor 40 FT 5th wheel. I always make sure my tires are filled to 80 PSI, and make sure the tow rig tires are also to correct air pressure. Many miles and keeping them aired and not overloaded has helped me over the years.
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Old 02-21-2019, 10:15 AM   #38
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Yup! Very well stated and once again common sense trumps folklore and urban legend perpetuated by “experts”
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Old 02-21-2019, 10:40 AM   #39
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St tires misconceptions

Yes most trailer tires are made in China. There are so many sob stories about tire failures of ST tires. I would venture to say that most of the tire failures occur because of incorrect owner maintenance. A lot of the blowouts occur due to over age tires. A lot of trailers just sit and do not move for months or years at a time. Any tire over 6 years old should be replaced. I have a friend who bought a travel trailer, which had OLD Goodyear Marathon TIRES over 6 years old. Took trailer on first trip, blue two tires and $4000.00 later in damages, he also advised he was towing at 70-75 mph. Speed is also a big factor here. As the Goodyear Marathon tires are speed rated at 65 mph. He changed his tires and has had no problems since. He did replace them with New Goodyear Marathons. But he does not travel that fast anymore.
I have the following Tires, POWER KING TOWMAX STR, Tire size (Full Spec)*Radial 205/75 R14C = 26.1" X 8.1" R14 speed rating 75 mph. At 6 years I replaced them with the same tires. The only other st tire I saw with h a greater speed rating are the Maxxus. But are twice the cost.
Yes there is a chance you get a bad batch of tires. But most companies have had to have their tires certified to run on USA highways. This is governed by the NTSB. If the tires are deemed dangerous they are recalled.
Owner maintenance is also a key factor. Proper tire pressure and no overloading is his responsibility.
Iíll leave you with those thoughts. Happy Camping
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Old 02-21-2019, 12:53 PM   #40
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So now what... I learned on This Forum, about "China Bombs", Even though mine were still in great shape. I traded them out after 4 years.. You all scared the crap out of me. I know it was only a matter of time before something went wrong. But still, I learned to call them "China Bombs here, and that I should probably change them out for something else.. And im only a dammed ol Truck driver.
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