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Old 02-14-2019, 02:34 PM   #21
JRTJH
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Here's one of probably hundreds of sources. It's probably a special order item at any local "small RV parts house" as they likely don't sell enough to keep it in stock. https://www.rvplus.com/hengs-roof-ve...CABEgIKg_D_BwE
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Old 02-14-2019, 06:03 PM   #22
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I agree with he condensation gang...when we are at the TT in the winter, we keep the bath vent open and fan running, use hood vent when we cook, have dinette window cracked slightly and 2 small fans running all the time, one in front, one in back. Very little condensation on the windows or anywhere. We also use 2 electric 360 space heaters, one in front and one in back..Comfy 66' at night!
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Old 02-15-2019, 04:04 PM   #23
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Nomadicchefs,
Not to get ahead of your leak issue, but if you decide to install vent covers these are the covers that I used. I am very happy with the result and installation was pretty easy (during the summer). I expect it would be more challenging during the cold weather months.

https://www.amazon.com/Maxx-Air-00-9.../dp/B002OW5J44
There was another keystone owner near us that got these and they didn't lay flush as expected. Did you have any trouble mounting yours to your existing fan? I hate to have to drill and be sprawled out on the roof anymore than I need to be.
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Old 02-15-2019, 04:10 PM   #24
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Tho ones I installed are attached to brackets which are attached to the vent frame. They don't sit tight to the roof but it's a small gap.

You might be able to just sit them over the vent covers temporarily until better weather. Maybe tape them down temporarily or set a weight on them.

Maxxair 00-933067 Smoke Vent Cover https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000A3GK4M..._Nt1zCb8J4CBBX
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Old 02-18-2019, 07:32 AM   #25
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Alright gang, after much work on this awful vent opening, I have found the culprit. In the corners where the roofing membrane has been cut too short, the corners are actually under the butyl tape. The main water damage has come into the roof at all 4 corners. It has ran down the "framing boards" and then drips onto the ceiling panel, then runs out from under the exhaust flange. I used a small pen camera and can see water damage about 2-4 inches out from the actual hole cut into the panel. I have the products to seal it from the roof and to fix it from the inside.

My traumatic question is, how in the world do I fix the damage? I know I can take the ceiling panel down, but what do I use to do this? Also, in order to take it down I have a flush mount light that I have no clue how to take it down/out. Luckily, the water has stayed right there within that space. Once I get the panel down I will be able to tell more about it. I can put the dehumidifier in there and dry it out and then better assess the mold. It's moldy, but I'm not so much concerned that it's the deadly mold, but more that the wood is possibly to far gone to repair. I can get my hands on wood rot chemicals, but I just need more guidance from you pros.

I feel confident in doing these repairs myself. If it's major I will call in a repair service, but I want to see it for myself before I decide to drop a boatload of money on someone else doing the work. So....I'm ready to take notes. What now??
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Old 02-18-2019, 07:59 AM   #26
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So the mold is on the ceiling panel inside the ceiling? If it all seems solid I'd just seal it up good on the roof to stop any further leakage and spray the moldy area with a bleach mixture then get it dried out good and call it quits!
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Old 02-18-2019, 08:10 AM   #27
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So the mold is on the ceiling panel inside the ceiling? If it all seems solid I'd just seal it up good on the roof to stop any further leakage and spray the moldy area with a bleach mixture then get it dried out good and call it quits!
Yea, it's the roof membrane then a sheet of ply, then the 2x4 framing boards, then a gap semi filled with insulation and wiring. Below the gap, on the under side of the boards are the ceiling panels. I guess I'm wanting to take it down to guarantee there's no damage I can't see. Like if it ran down into the wall, because the wall separating the shower and living room has all the wiring for the tv, surround sound, dvd, etc. And for some reason, it all comes in and is wrapped around a stud that is exposed under that vent.
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Old 02-18-2019, 08:27 AM   #28
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The butyl tape isn’t the final seal, in fact there isn’t any under my vents on my 2005 Copper Canyon. The real seal is the self leveling sealant over the edge and screws holding the vent cover in place. I would check the exterior self leveling sealant, and repair as necessary.
Check for rot with knif if none found use bleach water solution to kill, let dry and put bac together.
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Old 02-18-2019, 08:35 AM   #29
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The butyl tape isn’t the final seal, in fact there isn’t any under my vents on my 2005 Copper Canyon. The real seal is the self leveling sealant over the edge and screws holding the vent cover in place. I would check the exterior self leveling sealant, and repair as necessary.
Check for rot with knif if none found use bleach water solution to kill, let dry and put bac together.
Is there an easy way to take these panels down? The staples are tiny but the panel is such flimsy material I'm afraid I'll tear it up. I want to make sure I kill the mold and find it all.
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Old 02-18-2019, 09:13 AM   #30
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When your trailer was constructed, the large components were placed on the floor, the sidewalls were built around them, then the inside ceiling panels were placed in position from sidewall to sidewall. Next the rafters were installed, the inside panels were then stapled to the rafters and after wiring runs, ducting and insulation, the "top OSB roof decking" was installed and stapled in place.

ALL of your interior ceiling panels span the entire trailer width, from sidewall to sidewall. You can't "remove the bathroom ceiling panel" without cutting it at the bathroom wall/ceiling points. While it's not "impossible" it does take some significant pre-planning and thought to make sure you can remove the ceiling molding, cut along the edges, pull/pry the ceiling panel off the rafters and gain access to everything "above the panel. Realize that there are lights, A/C duct vents, skylights and that powered roof vent as well as hidden 12 VDC and 120 VAC wiring, radio/TV cable, insulation and rafters that will all "come tumbling down on your head" as soon as you start pulling the interior luan panel from the rafters.

Based on what you're describing, I'd question whether you really have a "roof leak" or not. The ENTIRE vent is sealed from the top flange to the TPO roof membrane. The ENTIRE vent is sealed between the flange and the TPO under the flange with clay/butyl putty. There is always a "possibility" of a leak, but based on how you describe not using the vent while showering and seldom/never opening the vent to allow condensation to escape. I really don't think you're facing an "active rooftop leak".

I'd suspect that you've got considerable moisture from condensation that originated by showering/cooking/breathing in the "closed up trailer" and that is the source of your "water damage". Before attempting to remove the ceiling panels in an RV that you're living in during the winter, I'd first begin a regimen of "active ventilation, dehumidification and get things dry, for now. You really don't want to start tearing things apart in a 200 square foot box that is your "home" while the weather is not acceptable for being outside during the renovation.
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Old 02-18-2019, 09:25 AM   #31
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When your trailer was constructed, the large components were placed on the floor, the sidewalls were built around them, then the inside ceiling panels were placed in position from sidewall to sidewall. Next the rafters were installed, the inside panels were then stapled to the rafters and after wiring runs, ducting and insulation, the "top OSB roof decking" was installed and stapled in place.

ALL of your interior ceiling panels span the entire trailer width, from sidewall to sidewall. You can't "remove the bathroom ceiling panel" without cutting it at the bathroom wall/ceiling points. While it's not "impossible" it does take some significant pre-planning and thought to make sure you can remove the ceiling molding, cut along the edges, pull/pry the ceiling panel off the rafters and gain access to everything "above the panel. Realize that there are lights, A/C duct vents, skylights and that powered roof vent as well as hidden 12 VDC and 120 VAC wiring, radio/TV cable, insulation and rafters that will all "come tumbling down on your head" as soon as you start pulling the interior luan panel from the rafters.

Based on what you're describing, I'd question whether you really have a "roof leak" or not. The ENTIRE vent is sealed from the top flange to the TPO roof membrane. The ENTIRE vent is sealed between the flange and the TPO under the flange with clay/butyl putty. There is always a "possibility" of a leak, but based on how you describe not using the vent while showering and seldom/never opening the vent to allow condensation to escape. I really don't think you're facing an "active rooftop leak".

I'd suspect that you've got considerable moisture from condensation that originated by showering/cooking/breathing in the "closed up trailer" and that is the source of your "water damage". Before attempting to remove the ceiling panels in an RV that you're living in during the winter, I'd first begin a regimen of "active ventilation, dehumidification and get things dry, for now. You really don't want to start tearing things apart in a 200 square foot box that is your "home" while the weather is not acceptable for being outside during the renovation.
Agreed it would be quite a task to try and take on, I dont feel comfortable just ignoring the mood I can see but can't reach.
As for the leaking I am seeing when I got everything removed and just have the membrane and attached vent. In the corners where the roofing membrane has been cut too short, the corners are actually under the butyl tape. The main water damage has come into the roof at all 4 corners. It has ran down the "framing boards" or trusses, whatever you want to call them, and then drips onto the ceiling panel, then runs out from under the exhaust flange.
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Old 02-18-2019, 09:33 AM   #32
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Agreed it would be quite a task to try and take on, I dont feel comfortable just ignoring the mood I can see but can't reach.
As for the leaking I am seeing when I got everything removed and just have the membrane and attached vent. In the corners where the roofing membrane has been cut too short, the corners are actually under the butyl tape. The main water damage has come into the roof at all 4 corners. It has ran down the "framing boards" or trusses, whatever you want to call them, and then drips onto the ceiling panel, then runs out from under the exhaust flange.
Where the corners were cut too short, IF the butyl tape is sealed along the vent flange/TPO membrane, there is no way "OUTSIDE" water can migrate through that butyl seal. So, all the moisture you describe "running down the framing boards" would be moisture that was created INSIDE the trailer. I agree, you have mold and that's evidence of moisture, but I really don't think it's moisture that's coming INTO your trailer, rather it's moisture that's collecting from showering/cooking and it's ORIGINATING inside your trailer, not leaking INTO your trailer.

ADDED: Even if the roofing membrane were "cut too short" the DICOR sealant on the outside would prevent it from seeping into the interior of the trailer AND the butyl putty tape would serve as a "second barrier" to "back up" the DICOR.
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Old 02-18-2019, 09:46 AM   #33
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Where the corners were cut too short, IF the butyl tape is sealed along the vent flange/TPO membrane, there is no way "OUTSIDE" water can migrate through that butyl seal. So, all the moisture you describe "running down the framing boards" would be moisture that was created INSIDE the trailer. I agree, you have mold and that's evidence of moisture, but I really don't think it's moisture that's coming INTO your trailer, rather it's moisture that's collecting from showering/cooking and it's ORIGINATING inside your trailer, not leaking INTO your trailer.



ADDED: Even if the roofing membrane were "cut too short" the DICOR sealant on the outside would prevent it from seeping into the interior of the trailer AND the butyl putty tape would serve as a "second barrier" to "back up" the DICOR.
I would agree with JRTJH. I doubt it's cut too short. They lay the roofing membrane over the whole trailer and then just cut the holes where needed. The chances of leakage uniformally at each corner are slim. The roof vent frame being all metal is going to get covered in condensation and then run down into the ceiling.

Take a shower with the trim off and the vent closed as you have been and see what it looks like.
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Old 02-18-2019, 09:51 AM   #34
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Ok, I'll do the shower test, and check the roof seals. But as for the mold, what can I do to kill it without damaging all the wiring? There are 3 sets of wiring that run through that wet wood at the opening. I'm only afraid of what I can't see continuing to grow.
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Old 02-18-2019, 10:01 AM   #35
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I would agree with JRTJH. I doubt it's cut too short. They lay the roofing membrane over the whole trailer and then just cut the holes where needed. The chances of leakage uniformally at each corner are slim. The roof vent frame being all metal is going to get covered in condensation and then run down into the ceiling.

Take a shower with the trim off and the vent closed as you have been and see what it looks like.
I agree CONDENSATION that frame is aluminum closed up trailer condensation!!!!
#1 get an electric dehumidifier run it at a setting of less than 40%, open vent and run the entire time you shower, dry off and dress.
Does your range hood vent outside? Do you run it the entire time you are cooking?? Cooking creates a lot of humidity.
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Old 02-18-2019, 10:12 AM   #36
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Ok, I'll do the shower test, and check the roof seals. But as for the mold, what can I do to kill it without damaging all the wiring? There are 3 sets of wiring that run through that wet wood at the opening. I'm only afraid of what I can't see continuing to grow.
There are several "commercially available" mold elimination products. WalMart, Lowe's and Home Depot will have them on the shelf. Any commercial janitorial store will also have them available as will Amazon and EBay. You can also use either white vinegar or hydrogen peroxide in a spray bottle. Spray either (don't mix them together) into all the areas you can see and access. Allow them to dry and your mold should be gone. Remember that the stains will probably remain, but the mold (actually a fungus) will be dead. Bleach is effective to kill mold, but does not penetrate the surface, so it will only kill mold "on contact". Any mold that's grown into cracks or crevices will remain and continue to grow. In other words, bleach will "remove the stain and make it "look like the mold is gone" but it often times returns as soon as the "ideal growing season" (dark and warm) return.

I'd make a trip to WalMart, pay $5 for a spray bottle of mold eliminator, buy a dehumidifier, learn to take showers with the vent OPEN and let things dry out. Leave the plastic trim off the vent so things can dry out rather than closing it all up and having a bigger problem in the spring.
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Old 02-18-2019, 10:19 AM   #37
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Thank you all for the replies.
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Old 02-18-2019, 10:22 AM   #38
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I have to agree with the rest. I have difficulty thinking the dicor, butyl tape and any seal that came with the vent ALL started leaking all around the vent. The uniformity of the leaks sure sounds like it's collecting inside. If you follow the previous suggestions (be sure and let the wet wood dry after you kill the mold) I'm thinking (hoping) you will be on the way to recovery.
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Old 02-18-2019, 10:29 AM   #39
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There are several "commercially available" mold elimination products. WalMart, Lowe's and Home Depot will have them on the shelf. Any commercial janitorial store will also have them available as will Amazon and EBay. You can also use either white vinegar or hydrogen peroxide in a spray bottle. Spray either (don't mix them together) into all the areas you can see and access. Allow them to dry and your mold should be gone. Remember that the stains will probably remain, but the mold (actually a fungus) will be dead. Bleach is effective to kill mold, but does not penetrate the surface, so it will only kill mold "on contact". Any mold that's grown into cracks or crevices will remain and continue to grow. In other words, bleach will "remove the stain and make it "look like the mold is gone" but it often times returns as soon as the "ideal growing season" (dark and warm) return.



I'd make a trip to WalMart, pay $5 for a spray bottle of mold eliminator, buy a dehumidifier, learn to take showers with the vent OPEN and let things dry out. Leave the plastic trim off the vent so things can dry out rather than closing it all up and having a bigger problem in the spring.
I never knew that about bleach. I've always used it and it seems to work okay from the looks of it but I didn't know it couldn't penetrate into porous materials.
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Old 02-18-2019, 10:36 AM   #40
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I never knew that about bleach. I've always used it and it seems to work okay from the looks of it but I didn't know it couldn't penetrate into porous materials.
If you believe Service Master, here's some good "background info" :
https://www.servicemasterrestore.com...gar-kill-mold/

After Katrina, I became an "unwilling expert" on mold control. My relatives around New Orleans were literally "chest deep in mold" and they bought all the Clorox they could find. It made for some "very pretty white and beige mold" but it wouldn't kill it. On the other hand, a buddy of mine who has a Service Master franchise told me to get some plain white vinegar and try that. BOOM it was gone in a week. Lesson learned.
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