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Old 11-27-2018, 02:59 PM   #1
IwanaBrich
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Can I safely tow this?

My wife and I are new to RVing and we're considering buying a used 2013 Passport Elite 23RB. The trailer's dry weight is 4,620 lbs.

I'd like to use my existing 2006 Toyota Tundra to tow it. Below are its specs

2006 Toyota Access cab 4X4
Mileage: 60,000 miles
Engine 4.7L Gas V8
Horsepower 271 @ 5400 RPM
Torque 313 @ 3400 RPM
GVWR is 12,000 lbs
The truck weighs 5000 lbs
Max tongue wt: 700 lbs
The GWR of the truck is 6300 lbs,
GAWR-Frt is 3500 lbs
GAWR-Rear is 3650.
According the manual the vehicle weight capacity is 1355 lbs

I'm uncertain if my truck can safely tow this trailer. What are you thoughts?

Lastly we are thinking that we'd use this trailer only as a "starter" for a year of so, just to test the waters. If we enjoy it as much as we think we will, we plan to upgrade both TT and TV, going with a 5th wheel and 3/4 or 1 ton truck.


Thanks
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Old 11-27-2018, 03:29 PM   #2
sourdough
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What about the size of family? Ages? Things you want to take with you on a trip?

The older Tundras weren't really a "towing" truck. You're not looking at a real large trailer but a large trailer for your particular truck; gvw 6800, figure tongue 816 (12% - and it also exceeds the max tongue weight of your truck). With that tongue weight it leaves you 484 lbs. left on your payload along with your rear gawr. Subract at least 100 lbs. from that for a WDH.

Those numbers tell me without further research that you will be overloading that truck. The trailer is 26' long. The 06 Tundra is about a 3/4 size truck if I recall (not as big as a full size 1/2 ton). Factor in that in 06 Toyota built trucks that had towing specs that barely exceeded a passenger car simply because they weren't built to throw a big load on; much less control it. The truck is 12-13 years old. It only has 60k miles on it but it has lots of years sitting and aging. That can play real havok when you drop a big weight on the back of a lightly sprung truck.

If it were me, and I was intent on using that truck for a travel trailer, I would replace the shocks, check the springs for any fatigue/sagging and replace as required, check all the running gear for rust, fatigue, sag, bending etc. Replace all tires with LT tires and possibly new wheels to support the weight. What class of receiver does it have? It needs to be AT LEAST a Class III and preferably IV. Then, I would look at a trailer with a gvw of NO MORE than about 4800 lbs. Even then, I would be worrying constantly...but that's just me.
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Old 11-27-2018, 03:32 PM   #3
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Iwana, I may catch a little heat for this, but you pairing a 6 year old trailer with a 13 year old Toyota might not be the best of situations that popped up on the internet today. But I would go with it. Mind you we are only talking a year as a learning experience.
One caveat: Kindly post back and tell us that you spent at least $1000 on a great weight distribution hitch and sway control.
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Old 11-27-2018, 04:45 PM   #4
IwanaBrich
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Please don't take my question the wrong way but why does everyone fall back to the trailers GVR? Just because the trailer can handle 2100 lbs of cargo doesn't mean that we are going to pack that much. Also isn't that something we can control? Its just my wife and I, no one else. I figured that we be packing about 800 lbs of "stuff". That puts me at 5420 lbs and that puts my tongue wt at 650 lbs.

I also get it, my truck is 13 years old, but it has absolutely no rust at all, since its been garaged the whole time. That said, I would make some upgrades if we decide to use it as a TV.


We were hoping that we could test the RV waters without investing a lot of money for a new truck. I looked into renting a trailer, but all of the rentals that I saw where definitely over my truck capabilities or really tiny.

Lastly, I appreciate your posts, I'm just trying to learn and make sure I don't end a statistic.

Signed.... "I Wana Be Rich" so I can buy a new truck!!
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Old 11-27-2018, 05:19 PM   #5
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Here is the nightmare scenario. You are towing your trailer and you get in an accident. The other people you were in an accident with are claiming injuries and have hired a lawyer. The lawyer can demonstrate,using the manufacturers specs, that you were towing while over weight. Your insurance company wont cover the claim because you were overweight. Is it worth the risk?

Sorry if that was too ominous.
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Old 11-27-2018, 05:32 PM   #6
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You should use the trailers gvw simply as a way to be safe. Historically a trailer owner will load up far more than they think as a new owner. So much stuff you don't think about, don't know about, don't know that you would like to have when you get to "that place". To calculate on anything else is simply fools play.

Now, you can control that...if you will, and, measure weights. Time consuming and a bit of an irritation. I doubt you can actually take a nice trip for 2 without 1200 lbs. but we've done this a while - and I'm sure others take much less; we used to head out for a long weekend with, I'm sure, much less than what you anticipate - but after a while it grows, and that is problematic with a minimal tow truck.

Personally, I like your approach, attitude and goal. Renting is a losing proposition on RVs any way you look at it IMO. Your truck, IMO, is a problem. The issues it has can be mitigated, somewhat, by what I mentioned previously; and things that you should do no matter what to make sure that you can do what you want to do with this trailer. I still think you are exceeding your limits.

I fully understand wanting to "test the waters" or using an RV. To buy one always requires a "match" with the TV. And, I really want you to be able to do that - RVing is a really fun activity.

As far as the truck always being garaged; that helps with rust but has nothing to do with the capability of the vehicle suspension, age and other things. As the truck sits things settle and become even less capable in a vehicle like the Tundra. A correlation, hopefully no one objects to, is the spring in a pistol magazine; I kept one filled with ammo for years for one of my weapons; didn't particularly like that gun so it sat.....for years. Decided it needed a workout and took it out; resulted in constant feeding failures. Cause? The spring in the mag had weakened due to just "sitting" with the pressure of the ammo in the mag. The truck has the same problems.

I truly want you to try an RV - they are really fun. I also really want you to get something that won't put you, yours and others in peril. The Japanese, to this day, do not understand towing large trailers - they don't do that. They have made huge strides in trying to make a truck that "fits" the American market...and still haven't in the towing sector. Yours is from years ago so has marginal, at best, towing capability when it comes to a 6800 lb. trailer.

Reinforce the truck; check everything out, keep those weights way down and, hopefully, have fun, but, optimally......buy a smaller trailer...or a larger truck.

Edit: Just a thought; "I wanna be rich - so I can buy a new truck"...…..I hope, and I'm sure you know, that just "wanting" to be rich won't get you there. Hopefully you are taking the actions/making the decisions that are required to get there so there will never be another "I wanna be" in your comments. Here's hoping you reach that goal.
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Old 11-27-2018, 05:52 PM   #7
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Besides the issue of a truck not intended for towing you have the issue of that truck's questionable condition. A vehicle that sets for the majority of 13 years is a certain failure in my mind. A well used, often used vehicle has a far greater chance of survival. Fuel setting for any length of time turns to varnish and attracts moisture. Hoses rot from the inside out, especially brake lines. Brake fluid attracts moisture which causes brake pistons to rust and seize. Driveline parts will rust from the oil draining off the surfaces and seals get stiff and leak. Antifreeze looses it's rust inhibitors over time. So, unless the truck has been driven regularly, brought up to operating temperature and exercised and had maintenance done I think you would need to take a hard look at the condition of the truck. Trying to stop a truck with a trailer tied on and having the brakes fail will ruin your day.
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Old 11-27-2018, 05:55 PM   #8
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I have to echo the above comments from the other posters. There is some very knowledgeable advice given. My saving grace is a TT with a rear kitchen (weight behind the axles). DW just bought a cast iron roaster which I'm sure is about 20#. This adds to the 300 or 400# of kitchen stuff already in there. The weight does add up quicker than one might think. I have learned to buy light tools and such for the front passthrough. YMMV
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Old 11-27-2018, 06:40 PM   #9
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Again, ....do your due diligence on your trucks manufactured towing specs/ratings.
You need to plug in your travel trailer weight; truck, cargo, tongue, etc....and make sure that it is well within GCWR.
Get a good WDH with sway control.
Make sure your comfortable towing the length of your potential trailer.
You open yourself up for a little "funnin" from the "diesel only" guys here-lol....by coming on here and asking for suggestions about the towing ability of your 1/2 ton Tundra.
I've only towed my TT's with 1/2 tons.....one an 04 Titan they pulled my than 2010 33' Keystone Springdale and my current 14` Ford F150 Ecoboost that tows my 2018 38' Keystone Outback.
I also upgraded to E rated truck tires....swapped them out on my ole Springdale and my new rig already has them.
Obviously you need to check your current trucks tires; brakes, cooling system, suspension etc....
Know the limitations of your truck and match it up to a travel trailer you can safely tow... than go out and enjoy your camping experience !Click image for larger version

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Old 11-27-2018, 06:49 PM   #10
sourdough
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Originally Posted by meaz93* View Post
Again, ....do your due diligence on your trucks manufactured towing specs/ratings.
You need to plug in your travel trailer weight; truck, cargo, tongue, etc....and make sure that it is well within GCWR.
Get a good WDH with sway control.
Make sure your comfortable towing the length of your potential trailer.
You open yourself up for a little "funnin" from the "diesel only" guys here-lol....by coming on here and asking for suggestions about the towing ability of your 1/2 ton Tundra.
I've only towed my TT's with 1/2 tons.....one an 04 Titan they pulled my than 2010 33' Keystone Springdale and my current 14` Ford F150 Ecoboost that tows my 2018 38' Keystone Outback.
I also upgraded to E rated truck tires....swapped them out on my ole Springdale and my new rig already has them.
Obviously you need to check your current trucks tires; brakes, cooling system, suspension etc....
Know the limitations of your truck and match it up to a travel trailer you can safely tow... than go out and enjoy your camping experience !Attachment 19428Attachment 19429Attachment 19430Attachment 19431

Meaz - many posting aren't the diesel crowd, but more importantly, the Tundra the OP has is the "pre 1/2 ton" Tundra as I called them...the "little" Tundra. Has no kind of capacity as we relate to the current 1/2 ton Tundras.
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Old 11-27-2018, 06:50 PM   #11
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FWIIW: Our 2015 23RB tongue weight with 1/3 full FW tank and ready to camp is about 730 pounds.
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Old 11-27-2018, 07:26 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
Meaz - many posting aren't the diesel crowd, but more importantly, the Tundra the OP has is the "pre 1/2 ton" Tundra as I called them...the "little" Tundra. Has no kind of capacity as we relate to the current 1/2 ton Tundras.
While you are correct as per the Tundra capacities,I would argue they still typically have lower capacities than Ford and GM. OP claims his as a 1300 lb payload capacity; I checked out my friend's current generation tundra back in May when they were moving; his full size Tundra only had a yellow sticker payload of 1345 lbs. So if the OP is correct, they may now have changed much.
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Old 11-27-2018, 07:36 PM   #13
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While you are correct as per the Tundra capacities,I would argue they still typically have lower capacities than Ford and GM. OP claims his as a 1300 lb payload capacity; I checked out my friend's current generation tundra back in May when they were moving; his full size Tundra only had a yellow sticker payload of 1345 lbs. So if the OP is correct, they may now have changed much.
Thanks Gegrad. Figured when they tried to make the bigger Tundras look like U.S. 1/2 tons they actually beefed them up. So, in my mind, all those "beefier" Tundras Toyota is selling are really nothing more than a "big body" with no "beef". Not surprised but disappointed. Thanks.
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Old 11-27-2018, 09:36 PM   #14
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I feel your pain, as I was in the same position a few years ago. Although I had a 2001 tundra with quite a few miles on it. I routinely towed a 16' flat bed car hauler for dump runs, and the occasional car. It was great, I had air bags on the rear. I loved that truck. My wife and I also wanted to get into rving, while we were looking at trailers that we might be able to tow, we took a trip from Salt Lake City to Lake Powell with a 19ft open bow ski boat. Week long trip, truck and boat were loaded to the gills. We made it, and had a great time. But towing that much with that truck scared the h*ll out of me. White knuckle all the way. Well to shorten the story, we ended up getting a used small class a motorhome for about $8k. 4 years later, we've upgraded to a New 34 ft Sprinter 5er. I'd suggest renting a small motorhome once or twice to try it out first, then see where you end up. Good luck
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Old 11-28-2018, 05:14 AM   #15
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on insurance, relax, your insurance will cover you even if you don't meet the specs.

just try it and see what happens, on pulling, not an accident....can you pull it up a hill?
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Old 11-28-2018, 06:03 AM   #16
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on insurance, relax, your insurance will cover you even if you don't meet the specs.

just try it and see what happens, on pulling, not an accident....can you pull it up a hill?
Id be more worried about stopping when coming down a hill.
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Old 11-28-2018, 06:15 AM   #17
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on insurance, relax, your insurance will cover you even if you don't meet the specs.

just try it and see what happens, on pulling, not an accident....can you pull it up a hill?
If the question "will my insurance cover me if I have an accident?" is the key to towing, you might want to take a long, serious look at the guy in the mirror. Avoiding the need for insurance, not hurting anyone on the public roads, arriving at your destination safely is far more important than "who pays for the damage".

So, having a tow vehicle that can safely handle the emergency situations when towing is far more important than getting it replaced after you wreck it and possibly hurt other people.

Not intended to make judgments about you, but rather about the statement,
"relax, your insurance will cover you even if you don't meet the specs." That statement should be the furthest thing from your mind when towing a 10K+ rig on the public highways..... JMHO
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Old 11-28-2018, 11:02 AM   #18
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I have made this challenge a few times on here regarding towing beyond the trucks printed max. So far no one has taken me up on it.
Ask your agent will you cover me knowing that I will be towing a RV xxx over the max tire wt. limits or over the max payload limits or max GVWR of my truck when I pull xx on the highways. I think it's like asking a cop, can I drive home I do not have insurance or driver license, I am a good driver.
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Old 11-29-2018, 06:52 AM   #19
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Posted these earlier. Hope they help.

http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums...d.php?p=317041
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Old 11-29-2018, 07:25 AM   #20
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I have made this challenge a few times on here regarding towing beyond the trucks printed max. So far no one has taken me up on it.
Ask your agent will you cover me knowing that I will be towing a RV xxx over the max tire wt. limits or over the max payload limits or max GVWR of my truck when I pull xx on the highways. I think it's like asking a cop, can I drive home I do not have insurance or driver license, I am a good driver.
And the last thing I would do is publicly post that I KNOWINGLY towed over weight. God forbid you get into an accident that causes injury or death as a good attorney will pursue every avenue in a personal injury/wrongful death suite. I'd suggest you start with adding to or increasing your umbrella coverage on your homeowner's policy if you own a home. YJMO YMMV
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