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Old 11-26-2018, 09:09 AM   #21
Javi
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Originally Posted by German Shepherd Guy View Post
Well I am totally convinced by all your responses. But it did bring up another interesting question, why doesn't Keystone offer it as a hard wired option right off of the line?


Also, I will occasionally leave dogs in the unit while I am off showing others and if the unit senses low voltage will it take me off line? In other words will my AC quit?



Seems like from the experience levels here that Keystone should form an advisory council of long time RV'ers to suggest some modifications. I do not mind the expense of adding a unit but it would have been nice to option it in from the git go. I think I will let my RV dealer know of this discussion and suggest maybe the dealership offer a hardwired version as an add-on option before the units leave the lot. A good salesman could easily make the case for it as you guys have made to me. I mean I was sold quickly on it and will have one in hand before the first outing in March.
Again Thanks to everyone for setting me straight. You all are the best!
I doubt that there are any dealers who would refuse to install an EMS if asked, however my experience with RV salesmen suggests that most of them have no clue about EMS or for that matter the trailer they are selling you.
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Old 11-26-2018, 09:26 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by German Shepherd Guy View Post
Well I am totally convinced by all your responses. But it did bring up another interesting question, why doesn't Keystone offer it as a hard wired option right off of the line?


Also, I will occasionally leave dogs in the unit while I am off showing others and if the unit senses low voltage will it take me off line? In other words will my AC quit?



Seems like from the experience levels here that Keystone should form an advisory council of long time RV'ers to suggest some modifications. I do not mind the expense of adding a unit but it would have been nice to option it in from the git go. I think I will let my RV dealer know of this discussion and suggest maybe the dealership offer a hardwired version as an add-on option before the units leave the lot. A good salesman could easily make the case for it as you guys have made to me. I mean I was sold quickly on it and will have one in hand before the first outing in March.
Again Thanks to everyone for setting me straight. You all are the best!


The EMS could take your unit off line, but then again, low voltage by itself can take your unit offline. The plus side is that the EMS will do it before it damages anything. I leave my pup inside all the time while doing things where she might not belong. Usually no more than 4 hours and we alert our neighbors to keep an eye just in case. There is no downside to having the EMS IMO relating to the concern you mentioned.
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Old 11-26-2018, 10:26 AM   #23
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And even if the EMS "kills power" to the RV during a sagged voltage condition, it will allow power back in once the condition has cleared. Unless these new rigs with the electronic controls for everything default to "off" after a loss-of-power, the air conditioner should turn back on when power is restored. You should see an indication of a fault on the display. I've had low-voltage conditions and have observed the error code when I looked, yet power was "back on".
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Old 11-26-2018, 11:20 AM   #24
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Typically, if the EMS senses a fault, it will disrupt power through the EMS until the fault is corrected. In the event of a low voltage/frequency condition, it would temporarily shut down power and once the condition was corrected, it would then reapply power to the trailer. There would be no indication of "previous interruptions" recorded in the error codes. They only show "current faults" not "historical faults".

So, there would be no way (on the EMS) to determine if power had been temporarily interrupted. In every RV that I've seen, the microwave clock will not reset, so if power were interrupted by the EMS, the microwave clock would be blinking "00:00" or "--:--". That would inform you that power had been interrupted, but you would have no indication of how long.

You could buy a digital "max/min" thermometer to place in the RV. That would give you a record of how cold or how hot the interior of the trailer was while you were gone. That would give you some indication of about how long the power was off. You can buy two "max/min" thermometers for $10 on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Refri...in+thermometer.

I'm sure others have different ideas on how to monitor the power status, from expensive "call my cell phone" systems to other ideas on how to best know the power status.
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Old 11-26-2018, 11:34 AM   #25
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Typically, if the EMS senses a fault, it will disrupt power through the EMS until the fault is corrected. In the event of a low voltage/frequency condition, it would temporarily shut down power and once the condition was corrected, it would then reapply power to the trailer. There would be no indication of "previous interruptions" recorded in the error codes. They only show "current faults" not "historical faults".

So, there would be no way (on the EMS) to determine if power had been temporarily interrupted. In every RV that I've seen, the microwave clock will not reset, so if power were interrupted by the EMS, the microwave clock would be blinking "00:00" or "--:--". That would inform you that power had been interrupted, but you would have no indication of how long.

You could buy a digital "max/min" thermometer to place in the RV. That would give you a record of how cold or how hot the interior of the trailer was while you were gone. That would give you some indication of about how long the power was off. You can buy two "max/min" thermometers for $10 on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Refri...in+thermometer.

I'm sure others have different ideas on how to monitor the power status, from expensive "call my cell phone" systems to other ideas on how to best know the power status.
Actually my Progressive Industries EMS will display the fault after power is restored until you clear it by turning the breaker off at the pedestal for several seconds.
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Old 11-26-2018, 11:35 AM   #26
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I will echo John's observations; my power has been shut down a few times with the EMS; it always restored and the only indication I had of the shutdown was the microwave, and our bedroom clock before I put a battery back in it.
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Old 11-26-2018, 11:55 AM   #27
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Actually my Progressive Industries EMS will display the fault after power is restored until you clear it by turning the breaker off at the pedestal for several seconds.
My EMS display just "smiles at you like nothing ever happened" once the power comes back on or is restored by the EMS. It just sits there and keeps on cycling through the check and when it gets to the error codes, shows "E 0".
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Old 11-26-2018, 04:28 PM   #28
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My EMS display just "smiles at you like nothing ever happened" once the power comes back on or is restored by the EMS. It just sits there and keeps on cycling through the check and when it gets to the error codes, shows "E 0".
Mine will show PE#, as long as the power from the pedestal has not dropped completely (not sure how long of a complete drop it takes to clear things, then it is up to the microwave).

From the Progressive manual:
"Previous Error Code: Previous error code (PE) indicates what error occurred and
why power was interrupted. To delete code, disconnect power from EMS."

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Old 11-26-2018, 07:28 PM   #29
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QUOTE: Also, I will occasionally leave dogs in the unit while I am off showing others and if the unit senses low voltage will it take me off line? In other words will my AC quit?


I occasionally also leave a pet. IF I have WiFi, anyone know of a product that sends temperature or other info to my phone to alert me of an issue?
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Old 11-27-2018, 03:56 PM   #30
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GHen
To answer your question, I have an alarm service on my house that alerts me of different events (motion sensors,window door jar alarms and fire) anywhere in the country on my cell phone. The system goes through a monitoring service for a monthly fee.
I see no reason why you could not set up the same type system for your RV. You may end up paying for the monitoring service when you are not camping. I'm not sure if a "turn off-turn on" type of service is available only when camping.
There may be other WiFi systems that would work with the park/fairground service routers. Some facilities offer "WiFi" but my experience has been most are subject to your location in the park and prone to overload during peak usage.
I am not aware of a surge protector that can send your phone a message of any power issues.
Good luck.
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Old 11-29-2018, 10:24 AM   #31
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Two types: portable and hardwired. Portable plugs into the pedestal and trailer plugs into it. Advantages: portable. Disadvantages: they can grow legs if not secured (added expense), if there is an issue during use, you have to walk outside to the pedestal to figure it out.
I have a 50 amp portable with about 1 1/2' 1" link chain and a bicycle type padlock. I can wrap the chain around the cord of the surge protector and around a pedestal and then lock it with no problem. Most times can also wrap the chain around the end of my anaconda (they're more $$ than the surge protector!). Only do this if we're staying somewhere more than a couple days or the place looks kind of shady. Never had any problems in five years and 45k miles of traveling (3 coast to coast, one to Canada & NE) - lots of CGs, Walmarts (generator), fairgrounds and other places.
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Old 11-29-2018, 09:35 PM   #32
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Low Voltage

When your the only one at the park the voltage will be 125 or so. As it fills the demand will draw that down to
115 or lower. Thatís OK but to low a voltage is a ďkillerĒ for any kind of motor...ie your refrigerator that costs a fortune. I have an internal surge protector with monitoring screen. You would be surprised at how
much the voltage can fluctuate. Anything goes out of range and it slams the door on your power source. It has a delay so when you hook up it monitors the connection for voltage, grounding, polarity and anything else thatís bad. After 142 seconds of good stuff it connects. Worth every penny!!!
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Old 11-30-2018, 03:44 AM   #33
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When your the only one at the park the voltage will be 125 or so. As it fills the demand will draw that down to
115 or lower. Thatís OK but to low a voltage is a ďkillerĒ for any kind of motor...ie your refrigerator that costs a fortune. I have an internal surge protector with monitoring screen. You would be surprised at how
much the voltage can fluctuate. Anything goes out of range and it slams the door on your power source. It has a delay so when you hook up it monitors the connection for voltage, grounding, polarity and anything else thatís bad. After 142 seconds of good stuff it connects. Worth every penny!!!
That delay is an added feature to protect your air conditioner compressor (and compressor in a residential style refrigerator as well). It has nothing to do with the unit checking the line source as that happens in milliseconds. When a compressor is running and power is removed (the compressor stops) the refrigerant line pressure on the high side (the output line of the compressor) is exceptionally high. Starting under this high pressure adds a high load to the compressor motor resulting in a high amp draw and heat. If the power cycles on and off rapidly (lights going on and off rapidly in your house during a storm) or the voltage drops to low (brown out, when the lights dim in your house during a storm) the lower voltage = higher amperage per Ohm's Law.
So long explanation but the delay is there to allow time for the refrigerant pressures to equalize between the liquid (output) and gas (input or suction) lines of the compressor to prevent the compressor from possibly locking up and burning up the motor windings. Other electronics such as your television, pc control boards can also be negatively affected by voltage variances or rapid on/off cycling.
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Old 11-30-2018, 07:38 AM   #34
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I understand the ac/fridge start up delays, but Genek was informing the OP that there's a 2+ minute delay on the EMS, specifically the PI brand, before power goes through to the rv while it's analyzing the incoming power.
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Old 11-30-2018, 08:11 AM   #35
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As I understand the PI EMS startup process, the "box" doesn't know and can't differentiate whether it was "just plugged in at a new campground" or if power was "temporarily interrupted by a brownout". Any time power is interrupted, the EMS treats it as a "momentary interruption" and the delay is enabled.

It's a "design choice" to not install a "historical power analysis circuit" and to just consider every "power on application" as a "possible interim interruption"... So, PI elected, when designing the EMS "box" to keep it as simple as possible (probably for reliability reasons) and design the system to always provide the "safeguard delay". As a note, that circuit can be disabled by changing the location of a jumper on the circuit board.

The box doesn't know if power was just applied or just interrupted/reapplied, so the delay is always a part of "power up analysis and application" so the electronics being protected are always protected.
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Old 11-30-2018, 05:23 PM   #36
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The manual for our hardwired 50 amp EMS says the unit comes from the factory with a 15 second delay and is able to be set to 136 seconds for the A/C startup delay.
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Old 11-30-2018, 05:31 PM   #37
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The manual for our hardwired 50 amp EMS says the unit comes from the factory with a 15 second delay and is able to be set to 136 seconds for the A/C startup delay.

My Surge Guard delays about 120 seconds and never wondered if that was too long/short etc. I'm wondering, simply because I haven't put any thought into it, what the detriment would be to let it go the 136 seconds vs the 15 seconds? Thinking that the 136 would cover you no matter what your circumstances might be vs the 15 potentially causing problems/damage? Again, just wondering. The option might be handy but......
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Old 11-30-2018, 08:36 PM   #38
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Our thermostat has a built in compressor delay, so when I installed the Progressive EMS, I left it set up at the 15 seconds, and it has never been a problem. Like was said, the devise knows almost instantly if your power source is good or not, and if it's good, it will power your rig up just fine, 15 seconds or 136 seconds makes no difference. It has saved us several times due to power issues at parks.
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Old 12-01-2018, 06:01 AM   #39
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Most if not all devices containing motors, compressors, and electronics do not like to operate in an environment where the source power is constantly going on and off. Obviously when power is lost the device goes off. A cheap design to incorporate on the power up cycle would be to add a time delay between when the first time power is sensed till it is considered to be stable (no on/off). At this time power is applied to the device. A longer delay basically provides more insurance that the power is stable before being applied to the device, however it does further delay the device operation.
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Old 12-01-2018, 11:39 AM   #40
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Mine has a 2 min. delay. First thing I do {after chocking the tires) is to check the pedestal and plug in. Takes us more than 2 min. to get the dogs out of the truck, get the unit leveled, etc. before turning on the ac so not a "waiting issue" for me. I check the power pedestal first and then turn the water on, usually it's close by. Only took one time of setting up and discovering the power pedestal was dead and having to break everything back down to change sites for me to learn my lesson on that.
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