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Old 07-21-2018, 06:57 PM   #1
steamboatscott
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Passport roof gutter

My Passport 239ML has a black gutter that goes from front to back with little spouts at each end for pushing the water out away from the camper. Problem is, the gutter isn’t seamless and one of the seams lets water droplets down just above the window where I sleep, which makes an annoying sound. I can understand not using seamless for cost reasons, but to allow a crack instead of layering so the water runs down is frustrating.

Anyone else experience this?

Advice on a remedy? Caulking is all I can think of.
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Old 07-21-2018, 07:02 PM   #2
chuckster57
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Common. The factory doesn’t like to waste rain gutter so when they run short , they get a new length and butt the ends together. The seam will let water leak, and the best fix is to clean the seam real good and apply a bead of silicone on the top and bottom. Using a wet finger will help smooth it and push it into,the crack.

Keystone is but one manufacturer that does it this way, and I am constantly fixing leaks.
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Old 07-21-2018, 07:15 PM   #3
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Same problem on both my Bullet 220RBI and my Avalanche 21RB. It will cause streaking eventually too, which is exactly what the gutters are supposed to prevent. Dealer's tech installed black caulk and it solved the problem. He installed a bead inside and out, he said otherwise it would be more likely to split back apart. If you are looking for it you can see it, but it isn't anything you are going to casually observe.
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Old 07-22-2018, 05:40 AM   #4
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Mine is seamless. The trouble was at the end down spout was installed to close restricting water flow it was bend and fix . Look for poorly sealed trim where the cap joins the side .I found water running inside the seam down into the kingpin this is how I found the gutters where restricted.
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Old 07-23-2018, 06:05 AM   #5
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I have the same issue, but it leaks over one of the slide outs.
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Old 04-12-2019, 06:58 AM   #6
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I have read in recent post where there was a gutter seam above a door and it would drip on people when they walked in, and some water was getting through the door and on the floor. I walk around my camper every month or so and yesterday I noticed some delamination under the awning... got on a ladder and there was a seam in the gutter and the trim piece above it with about a 1/16 inch gap centered above the spot that is delaminating, my guess is that's the cause. The camper is not even a year old...wonderful. Really looking forward to dealing with our local nationally known RV dealer on this warranty issue. I think I would rather unpin my hitch and back my trailer )from here forward known as "A Box of Tears") over a cliff!?!?

My thinking is I'm going to take a picture of the seam and delamination, and caulk the seam. Then take an after picture. Don't want to just leave it until the dealer 'gets around to it'.
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Old 04-12-2019, 07:55 AM   #7
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It sounds like the awning rail probably got pulled away from the trailer sidewall and water leaked into the wall in that area. Getting Keystone to "admit a problem" may be difficult. It really depends on how your dealership documents and reports the issue to Keystone. The leak CAN BE (depends on how it's reported) a manufacturing defect/fault or it could be owner error.

How?? you ask??? First, if the screws were installed and not properly sealed, if screws are missing (never installed) if there is no putty tape behind the awning rail, etc, then how those conditions are reported will make a difference.

On the other hand, if the awning rail appears to have been properly installed, there's the potential (likely no way to prove) that the awning was subjected to high winds or other "mis-use" that caused the rail assembly to fail and leak.

Is there any documentation of any "owner or dealer inspections" of the sealant on the roof/sidewalls ? Have there been any inspections ?? Can you prove that you never subjected the awning to heavy winds/rough travel?

I'm certainly NOT blaming you for anything, but those are some of the issues/questions that Keystone is going to require the dealership to answer before they even consider accepting a warranty repair.

So, if the dealership just sends in a report, "Sidewall FILON delaminated under the awning rail" I'd almost guarantee Keystone will disapprove repair. It's in your interest to talk to the dealership, get them to report specifically what happened, what the condition is and how it happened. Otherwise, I'd strongly suspect you're on the hook for payment of repairs.

GOOD LUCK!!!! It's going to depend on what your dealership reports to Keystone.

ADDED: As for the 1/16" gap, the awning rail is almost always 2 pieces on any awning over 16' long, so there will always be a gap on long awnings. There is putty tape behind the gap, so theoretically it can't leak into the mounting screw holes unless there is a void in the putty tape, they back out and leak around the threads or the awning rail is pulled away from the trailer wall.
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Old 04-12-2019, 08:11 AM   #8
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Appreciate the advice. I'll take a look to see if anything is pulled away, I didn't really look at that yesterday but didn't see anything jumping out at me as odd... other than the delamination of course. Will also see if I can spot putty tape and maybe even see if the screws are properly installed or missing. I figured that is where I would be at with the warranty, but realize that's just the way it is.
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Old 04-12-2019, 08:27 AM   #9
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If you're planning any attempt at a warranty take lots of pictures every step of the way as you do the inspection or try to stop any further delamination so there's proof of what you have found & done to repair.
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Old 04-12-2019, 08:32 AM   #10
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With the dealer, it can go "both ways"....

If it's really a defect, and if the dealership is "on your side" and thoroughly documents the issue as a manufacturing defect, chances are good that Keystone will pay for the repair. If the dealership is "looking for ways to maximize their service department income, realize that you'll pay more for the repair than Keystone, so it would be in the dealer's "profit line" to not actively support the Keystone payment, but to obtain a Keystone denial (make them the bad guy) while charging you close to "double the price" to repair the trailer. Yes, there are some dealerships that do exactly that, some that occasionally do and some that ALWAYS keep the customer first and NEVER even consider "skimming from the most lucrative source".....

So, it's in your best interest to get with the service department, get them on your side, keep them on your side and STAY INVOLVED WITH ALL THE COMMUNICATIONS back and forth from the dealer to Keystone and all responses. If you "just drop it off and expect repairs, that just ain't gonna happen.....

It's your trailer, your money and your dealer. Manage them wisely and stay involved (not as a PITA, but as a concerned owner)....
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Old 04-12-2019, 08:40 AM   #11
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A co-worker who bought a trailer from the same dealer and has had frustrations with them in the past told me a new service manager was hired in January and he seemed to be proactive and trying to clean up the mess. I'll give them another chance. Plan to give them a call later this afternoon and check out my options.
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Old 04-13-2019, 04:41 AM   #12
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So got home yesterday afternoon and took another look to see where the leak could be coming from. Started checking around the trim piece where the joint was and there was a place about 1 1/2" long where the caulk would separate from the roof membrane when I pushed on it. Recaulked it and will see what happens. It rained hard last night and the delamination area didn't appear to have grown. I feel better but...how long does it take for the side to delaminate once it's wet?
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Old 04-13-2019, 05:00 AM   #13
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Delamination doesn't occur "because the FILON got wet last night. It occurs when the sun beats against the trailer side, causing the moisture inside the wall to turn to steam. It's the steam that expands, causing the fiberglass strands to separate and lose adhesion. On the sidewall of your trailer is a "complex sidewall system" (not just a sheet of fiberglass). It starts with the exterior FILON (complete with waterproof coating) which is backed by a 1/8" luan (imported hardwood plywood) backing. That is glued to a rigid foam core that is laid to fill the spaces between the aluminum frame channels. Next is another luan ply with vinyl coating which forms the interior wall. Damage may show up in a few days, it may not show up until the trailer is exposed to extremely hot sunlight for a prolonged time or it may not show up until the moisture "freezes next winter" and damages the substructure. It may take weeks, months, years to appear, but it won't reveal increasing damage "in a couple hours". So, not seeing a "growing delamination this morning" is not going to be a sign of "it's not a problem"....

All of that structure is subject to moisture intrusion which can cause water damage. Exactly where the steam will produce the separation or the failure of the adhesive is anybody's best guess. Typically it starts with "rotting of the luan" which then gives away with no substrate to support the glue that holds the FILON to the underlayers of aluminum and foam.

Also, you "could have" delamination occurring "inside the FILON" which breaks down the actual fiberglass, forcing it to separate from itself.

So, "delamination" is really one of multiple failures. How the moisture will "attack" your sidewall will depend on which component is the "weakest link" in the sidewall structure. It really takes more than a quick diagnosis of an unseen problem to make a proper assessment of just "which kind of delamination" you have going on. It could be as simple as steam being produced under the coating and not affecting the actual fiberglass sheeting or it could be total failure of the luan under the fiberglass. Someone familiar with RV sidewall structure and failure needs to take a look and make that determination. It's not always the same problem.
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Old 04-13-2019, 05:36 AM   #14
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Well poop...That's good intel, but not very encouraging?!?!. I need to take it in to get the propane side on the water heater fixed so will have them look at this too. Thanks again.
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