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Old 06-27-2018, 04:57 PM   #1
Miles65
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Theater seating in 252RL is a joke!

I just sold my dual recliner, theater seating from my new 252RL. It was an absurdly bad idea, from Keystone. It wedged, tightly, into the far end of the unit. It rubbed, hard, against the window treatment, to the point that you could not open the one side closest to that treatment, unless you pulled the complete unit out, a good ways from the far wall. Additionally, it made a great, six-foot counter inaccessible. Unbelievably goofy! I now have a Scandinavian recliner and foot rest in the same space. What a difference! Keystone needs to get input from its client base before it tries to market such a poor furnishing design. I hope they read this forum.
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Old 06-27-2018, 05:24 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miles65 View Post
I ...Keystone needs to get input from its client base before it tries to market such a poor furnishing design. I hope they read this forum.
Nobody from Keystone is a member of this forum, there has never been (to my knowledge) any response from anyone employed by keystone and there is no "factory presence" on the forum. If you want to convey any message or suggestion to Keystone, you'd get better results by using the Keystone webpage and contacting them via their "contact us" link.

Please note the disclaimer (in red) at the bottom of every forum webpage: "This forum is owned and operated by Social Knowledge, LLC. It is not authorized or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company and is not affiliated with the Keystone RV Company or its related companies in any way. Keystone RV® is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company."
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Old 06-27-2018, 05:54 PM   #3
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Although with some of the questions I've seen here I think some folks misteak this forum fora Keystone help desk for new owners.
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Old 06-27-2018, 06:20 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Miles65 View Post
I just sold my dual recliner, theater seating from my new 252RL. It was an absurdly bad idea, from Keystone. It wedged, tightly, into the far end of the unit. It rubbed, hard, against the window treatment, to the point that you could not open the one side closest to that treatment, unless you pulled the complete unit out, a good ways from the far wall. Additionally, it made a great, six-foot counter inaccessible. Unbelievably goofy! I now have a Scandinavian recliner and foot rest in the same space. What a difference! Keystone needs to get input from its client base before it tries to market such a poor furnishing design. I hope they read this forum.
Miles, not to be smart...., but, when you look at a trailer, hopefully thoroughly, you should see those things. Open, closed..open windows etc. I made the mistake of thinking turning swiveling recliners sideways upon every closeup so the slides could come in wasn't a big deal....we hate it. MY fault. Keystone has a good design and it actually makes a nice living area...we just hate having to turn them to travel. Keystones fault? No. My lack of attention? Yes.
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Old 06-27-2018, 06:47 PM   #5
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Miles, let me blunt with you. That way you don't think I'm just trying to break it to you easy. You and DW have purchased an entry-level travel trailer. A NEW entry-level I might add. I'm not handing you a line when I say this: You have purchased a NICE travel trailer. It has a lot of amenities other trailers this size don't have. It is going to be HOT sitting in the sun. You have to get over that. I will say that having to stand in the left theatre seat to mix up a batch of cookies is a bear! You got that taken care of and seem pleased with the result. Now the time has come to start putting the few ill feelings behind you and get to enjoying the things that are RIGHT with this rig. Take the advice of those suggestions to help with the cooling. Install another TV in the bedroom so you don't even have to get out of bed while your DW makes breakfast for you.....Yep, that one was a stretch, but you see where I'm going with this. Make this RV yours. Fix the things that irritate you and remember that all your camping won't be on 95 degree days.
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Old 06-27-2018, 07:15 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
Miles, not to be smart...., but, when you look at a trailer, hopefully thoroughly, you should see those things. Open, closed..open windows etc. I made the mistake of thinking turning swiveling recliners sideways upon every closeup so the slides could come in wasn't a big deal....we hate it. MY fault. Keystone has a good design and it actually makes a nice living area...we just hate having to turn them to travel. Keystones fault? No. My lack of attention? Yes.
Sorry, I didn't explain: I called Keystone before I bought the 252RL to make sure the dual recliners could be separated for easy removal. I was told they are the last things put in, so they are quite easy to remove. I had the dealer take them out, but I wasn't given credit for them, so I put them back in and sold them, yesterday.
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Old 06-27-2018, 07:33 PM   #7
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Miles, let me blunt with you. That way you don't think I'm just trying to break it to you easy. You and DW have purchased an entry-level travel trailer. A NEW entry-level I might add. I'm not handing you a line when I say this: You have purchased a NICE travel trailer. It has a lot of amenities other trailers this size don't have. It is going to be HOT sitting in the sun. You have to get over that. I will say that having to stand in the left theatre seat to mix up a batch of cookies is a bear! You got that taken care of and seem pleased with the result. Now the time has come to start putting the few ill feelings behind you and get to enjoying the things that are RIGHT with this rig. Take the advice of those suggestions to help with the cooling. Install another TV in the bedroom so you don't even have to get out of bed while your DW makes breakfast for you.....Yep, that one was a stretch, but you see where I'm going with this. Make this RV yours. Fix the things that irritate you and remember that all your camping won't be on 95 degree days.
I have to disagree with you on the "entry level" thing. I've owned five RV's in the last thirty years. I hardly consider a thirty foot unit, at an MSRP of around $33 G's, to be entry level. I've owned two entry level units, before, and they were fine, but small and lacking in many creature comforts.

That being said, I actually do like this new unit, very much. Lots of things are right with it, that's why I bought it. The counter space was an issue, for me, because I'm a gourmet, vegan chef. I needed the extra 4'-5' of counter space those dopey recliners blocked, for food prep. The hot RV thing I am taking care of: I bought a white AC shroud to replace the black one. While I know it won't help, much, if at all, inside, it will definitely keep the roof mounted AC internals a few degrees cooler. I am experimenting around with an additional, portable, outside AC unit that I'm modifying with a custom fit duct that I can mount to the bedroom window. I have already mounted a fan on the bedroom wall, and swapped out the rotating head (but fixed louver) AC ceiling delivery vents for adjustable slat ones, throughout.

Yeah, I like my RV. It will just take some tweaking, and that's why I'm in the game. The tweaking is the point, for me.
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Old 06-28-2018, 07:53 AM   #8
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I just sold my dual recliner, theater seating from my new 252RL. It was an absurdly bad idea, from Keystone. It wedged, tightly, into the far end of the unit. It rubbed, hard, against the window treatment, to the point that you could not open the one side closest to that treatment, unless you pulled the complete unit out, a good ways from the far wall. Additionally, it made a great, six-foot counter inaccessible. Unbelievably goofy! I now have a Scandinavian recliner and foot rest in the same space. What a difference! Keystone needs to get input from its client base before it tries to market such a poor furnishing design. I hope they read this forum.
It's a buyer beware process. If you didn't realize the sofa was junk before you bought it then thats on you. Most all RV's are spec out price wise. Cheaper units get cheaper furniture. Spend $$$$$$ and you'll usually get better components. Most furniture is not sticks and bricks quality, but most owners aren't in their RV's 365 like at home.
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Old 06-28-2018, 09:55 AM   #9
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It's a buyer beware process. If you didn't realize the sofa was junk before you bought it then thats on you. Most all RV's are spec out price wise. Cheaper units get cheaper furniture. Spend $$$$$$ and you'll usually get better components. Most furniture is not sticks and bricks quality, but most owners aren't in their RV's 365 like at home.
I guess you didn't understand my op. I never said the dual recliners (not sofa) were junk. They are, actually, excellent quality, and go for around $1K, online. The problem was that they took up too much room, and blocked the extra counter space I needed. As I posted, above, I spoke with Keystone before I bought my unit, to make sure I could remove the recliners. What the joke is, is that these recliners were squeezed into the 252RL, in the first place. OK???

FWIW: It seems that many in this forum want to point a finger at posters who complain about issues in their units, with many pulling the BS line of, "That's on you!" Total nonsense, as I have, at least, as much experience with RV's as most in here, so back off with that garbage.
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Old 06-29-2018, 10:44 AM   #10
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I respect your opinion but, them being a joke should have been noted at PDI.
I am on my 9th RV I owned, Used several from parents and stayed in many more owned by friends. I learned to test everything as in sit, lay down etc. and not get blow away by the colors or floor plan.
I say none I have stayed in keep the inside cool well in summer heat or warn in winter cold like any of my good old houses. There RVs all with 2 inch walls.
When we purchased this latest TT, I found the bed mattress worse than any other RV after lying on it at the dealer. Ok, I can and did fix that. The seat cushions are too soft than the last 2 RVs I have owned, but I do not sit at them like a chair at home. So, those I put up with them. The couch is OK, the pull out blow up air mattress, a cheap and dumb idea. Ok, we got this for just 2 people not a family so I don't care knowing I will never use it. I checked out the TV mount to see if it would pivot around to be seen from dinette and couch. I realized that it is small, so what. If I want bigger I will replace it. I may and put it into the bedroom but, not a big deal either. We will use a RV any where from 5 nights to maybe 15 per year, so as long as the stuff works I am mainly OK with knowing the downside to RV equipment and use.
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Old 06-29-2018, 05:25 PM   #11
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I respect your opinion but, them being a joke should have been noted at PDI.
SNIP!
As it was. The unit had everything I wanted, except the goofy recliners. They are history, now, I'm $500 to the good, and my Scandinavian recliner and foot rest fit perfectly, and allow full access to the extended counter space.
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Old 06-29-2018, 09:04 PM   #12
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Certainly what you described was a bad fit but, sounds like you got something that will work. Time to enjoy the camping season.
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Old 06-30-2018, 04:20 AM   #13
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As it was. The unit had everything I wanted, except the goofy recliners. They are history, now, I'm $500 to the good, and my Scandinavian recliner and foot rest fit perfectly, and allow full access to the extended counter space.
To me, no matter how or why you got there, it sounds like as win. Enjoy your camping. Appreciate your posts.
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Old 06-30-2018, 07:01 AM   #14
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Miles65, You are now a vet of the grumpy bunch onslaught! Your point that Keystone should look for customer feedback is valid. They don't. None of the OEMs do. Don't worry about the criticism, eventually the grumpy bunch will move on to another victim bwhahaha
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Old 07-01-2018, 01:19 PM   #15
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Miles65, You are now a vet of the grumpy bunch onslaught! Your point that Keystone should look for customer feedback is valid. They don't. None of the OEMs do. Don't worry about the criticism, eventually the grumpy bunch will move on to another victim bwhahaha
LOL! What, Me Worry? The grumpy bunch only showed me, in a very short time span, how some dumb butts, in here, fail to comprehend the written word. No biggie. I'm very happy with my RV, and I'm on my way out to the back yard to replace the always-open heat registers with ones that shut with a side arm adjuster. No need to let that heavy cold air sink below the floor!

In a while, maybe within the next month, I will post about my building an RV shelter out of 2" dia. PVC pipes, fittings, tarps and bungees. Costing it out, I come up with about $600, which is much less $$$ than anything I've seen online. I will start that thread fairly soon, as I truly respect the respectful and intelligent, in here, and I have a feeling that some of those good folks may have past experience with such a shelter. Mine will be 30' L X 12' W X 12' H (to the top plate) and an additional 3', or so, to the peak/ridge beam.

Stay tuned!
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Old 07-01-2018, 02:35 PM   #16
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An RV to me is a DIYers dream. If you are handy, there is lots of room for improvement or additions and exactly what I (we!) have been doing.

A few that have been done to ours

- A real bed mattress
- Cut down bed platform by 5 inches
- A real hide-a bed bstead of a blow up version
- A real pair of comfortable recliner
- A real kitchen facucet that works
- Enough coat hooks to actuallyhang coats
- A stair rail
- Several added shelves in the caverns the call cupboards
- A swung down spice cupboard
- Several replacement but switched LED lights
- Fabulous vent hood range fan
- Disc brakes
- 2nd a/c
- LCI Solid steps and Stromberg extended hand rail

Several, not all were to replace less then great (junk?) pieces originally supplied by Keystone on a high mid line 5er.

Don't know what will be next but for sure ther will be enough to keep me from grumphood
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Old 07-05-2018, 09:47 AM   #17
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miles look into the 3701LK it has tons of counter space.
and no problems with a couch in the kitchen.
i pick mine up next week ( pending problems).
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Old 07-05-2018, 06:04 PM   #18
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miles look into the 3701LK it has tons of counter space.
and no problems with a couch in the kitchen.
i pick mine up next week ( pending problems).
I actually am thinking of going with the Montana 3921FB for my next unit, about five years down the road.
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