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Old 11-27-2019, 05:32 PM   #61
foldbak
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Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
Let's do a "head count using bean counter logic"....

How many of us have a travel trailer?

How many of us have sold or traded our travel trailer because we don't like the quality?

How many of us "gripe" about the quality while we long for the day the dealer gets it fixed and we can go "break something else" ???

Seems pretty easy to understand from a "bean counter" perspective: As long as we're buying them, breaking them and wanting to use them, the RV manufacturers making money and they are going to give us what we will pay the most for, not what we'd like to have but won't pay for.....

I missed this and have to reply. I started with a 1950's aluminum Colman pop up tent trailer. It was amazing! Quality quality quality! Had to replace the canvas. It was 5' x 5' collapsed. Upgraded to a regular sized Colman tent trailer. Still good quality. Upgraded to a Jayco 21' ultralight. Built in onan and inverter. Spoiled at this point. Excellent trailer. Upgraded to a Fleetwood 30' Cougar. Very well built. All trailers were used and no complaints or regrets. I'd still have the Fleetwood but after 13 years the sides started to delam so we decided to bite the bullet and buy new in hopes that it would last our final chapter.



The point is that craftsmanship has not gotten better! It's gotten worse. The manufactures profits have increased because we allow it! We just settle and accept it because we either dont know any better or weren't presented an option. Honestly I wouldn't have gone this route knowing what I know now. There are options that cost more up front but pay off in the long run. Ok I'm done Peace
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Old 11-27-2019, 05:56 PM   #62
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I missed this and have to reply. I started with a 1950's aluminum Colman pop up tent trailer. It was amazing! Quality quality quality! Had to replace the canvas. It was 5' x 5' collapsed. Upgraded to a regular sized Colman tent trailer. Still good quality. Upgraded to a Jayco 21' ultralight. Built in onan and inverter. Spoiled at this point. Excellent trailer. Upgraded to a Fleetwood 30' Cougar. Very well built. All trailers were used and no complaints or regrets. I'd still have the Fleetwood but after 13 years the sides started to delam so we decided to bite the bullet and buy new in hopes that it would last our final chapter.



The point is that craftsmanship has not gotten better! It's gotten worse. The manufactures profits have increased because we allow it! We just settle and accept it because we either dont know any better or weren't presented an option. Honestly I wouldn't have gone this route knowing what I know now. There are options that cost more up front but pay off in the long run. Ok I'm done Peace
I know you said you're done but you picked up a year old post.....

You can't really compare "1950s, 60s etc." to today. Lord knows, look at modern vehicles, technology etc. I wasn't as fortunate as you, all my older trailers weren't "perfect" with no issues...they had them.

Craftmanship has gotten worse? No, you get FAR more now for your dollar (time/value adjusted) than you did back then. The issue is what people want vs what they want to pay vs what they want to pay for a TV. The RV manufacturers are hitting that nail on the head and doing well at it. Those that want that "quality" from the 50s/60s to have continually improved yet pay a minimal price and be able to tow it with a 1/4 ton.....THAT is the issue. Again, it IS the nature of the beast. It IS reality. Don't know any better? Of course people know the situation. Presented options up front? Lord knows there are dozens of options, folks pick what option they want to pay for...that's it. Cost more up front but pay off in the long run? I'm not sure what that means unless you mean to keep an RV for a lifetime? Look around you - that won't happen. Not being ugly just pointing out that reality is what it is.
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Old 11-27-2019, 05:58 PM   #63
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George hit the staple on the head about why staples not screws. Screws would take too long and need much better wood, like a 2x4. This stuff used nowadays will split unless you use a staple.
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Old 11-27-2019, 07:43 PM   #64
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$180/hr isnít out of line in the RV business out here. Hope the change of personnel works in your favor and you reach an agreeable solution soon.

Not to derail this thread, did you get snow today? Very cold and windy down in the valley.
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Old 11-28-2019, 04:52 AM   #65
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Foldbak, "At 62 I don't see buying another NEW trailer." You haven't even got a good start on buying new RV's yet! You have a virtual lifetime of experiences ahead of you!
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Old 12-19-2019, 08:48 AM   #66
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You asked why staples vs screws? Have you ever seen a stick & brick home built where studs are screwed together. A staple gun.... slap slap slap and we are done. Screws take forever relatively. They can't use a nail gun up on the roof trusses as the trusses are a bit puny for a nail gun I suspect.

I have construction experience and there are a lot of barbed pneumatic fastener options. Even a barbed flat head nail would be a better choice. Lightweight trailer in harsh conditions? Make better construction material choices. I'll pay more for it...



Roof update
The service manger came to my home and took pictures. Submitted them for warranty and was denied. He and the GM fought Keystone and they agreed to......wait for it.....


Remove, repair and replace the entire roof!

I was shocked! I just hope they have the techs to pull this off. We will be upgrading the staples.
So far every window has been replaced and now the roof. I hope this is the end of our warranty issues. I'll update you with the outcome.

Anyway cheers to Folsom Lake RV.
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Old 12-19-2019, 09:21 AM   #67
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Thanks for the update. I'm very glad to hear they are taking care of the roof. I think it also goes to show how important it is to have a good dealer in your corner. Many places would have just blown it off and said "Keystone said no". It also goes to show, IMO, that Keystone is open to valid issues when presented properly (or repeatedly).

As far as the techs, I obviously don't know about your location but mine is a CW in TX and I've wondered about such things as well. I was in a couple of months ago and the SM was telling me about an old classic trailer that had been brought in by an older lady that wanted it restored even though it would cost more money than a new one. He had the before pictures and it was TERRIBLE; looked like it was falling off the frame. He had pictures of the crew and the various steps they took to restore it; impressive. Then he took me to the new one waiting for the lady to pick up next day. It was unbelievable. Thought I had walked into 1950 with modern appliances. Awesome. They replaced every component; roof, walls, floor etc. and had the pictures for it. I couldn't believe it. Hope your crew can do as good a job and good luck.
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Old 12-19-2019, 01:24 PM   #68
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We've purchased our trailer through the same dealer. They've been very good about handing warranty issues and in one case, made it clear to us that if a claim was denied by Keystone, they would honor it themselves. I don't know the outcome of their communication with Keystone, but my issue was resolved.

They've gone through difference service managers, some not so good, but we've always been able to get what we needed from them.

I'm glad your issue was resolved as well (or will be...)
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Old 12-28-2019, 03:53 PM   #69
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Yes the last 2 service managers were awful, The new manager is much better. I do miss the GM Angle. Not sure what happened but he stormed out one day. I believe it's the owners grand daughter that's sitting in that position right now.
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Old 12-28-2019, 04:52 PM   #70
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Wow ... I hadn't heard that. How long ago did that happen? He was always a straight-shooter as far as I could tell (for a salesman )
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Old 12-29-2019, 07:56 AM   #71
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Early 2019 just before the service manger change.
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Old 01-04-2020, 03:19 PM   #72
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Update


I dropped off the trailer at the dealership today. Not only are they replacing the entire roof but their gluing a layer of 1/4 luan paneling before they install a new roof membrane. Mind blown! Once finished they'll preform a pressure test.


I couldn't ask for more from Keystone. Can I edit the thread title?
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Old 01-04-2020, 03:27 PM   #73
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Update


I dropped off the trailer at the dealership today. Not only are they replacing the entire roof but their gluing a layer of 1/4 luan paneling before they install a new roof membrane. Mind blown! Once finished they'll preform a pressure test.


I couldn't ask for more from Keystone. Can I edit the thread title?
You can't edit the title, but send me a PM with your requested changes and I can edit it for you.
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Old 01-05-2020, 05:53 AM   #74
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It’s is somewhat comforting that Keystone is taking care you your travel trailer. There are too many warranties that aren’t worth the paper they’re written on.
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Old 01-05-2020, 08:10 AM   #75
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I'd suspect that if you dig deeply into what happened in this problem, you'll find a "very active and involved dealership", "extremely good documentation of the problem", good, effective communication between the dealership and Keystone" and a series of frequent, consistent communications between all parties involved, from the owner, service department, dealership management, and the Keystone Warranty Section.

I'd say a very welcome decision on what to repair and how to do it. Now, let's hope this solves the problem "permanently" for this problem.....
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Old 01-22-2020, 08:07 AM   #76
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Update:

Picked up the trailer from Folsom Lake RV yesterday. It has a new roof. They removed everything from the roof. Removed the trim and TPO. Removed the failed staples and replaced with screws. Installed another layer of luan with screws. Installed new TPO and roof components. Performed a leak test.

I also dropped off two Max Air vent covers and an RV door window with internal shade for them to install expecting to pay for the labor. They installed at no charge.

Kudos to Folsom Lake RV and their new management!
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Old 01-22-2020, 08:18 AM   #77
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It's great to hear this worked out so well. I've personally had very good experiences with that dealership. This is why the selection of the right dealership makes all the different in the world with RV ownership.
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Old 01-22-2020, 08:50 AM   #78
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Definitely, this is a "quality dealership"....

That said, I wonder how many shoppers will stop in, get a price, then drive cross-country to save $4000 and next year be on here, complaining that their trailer roof has problems and "Keystone won't help"...…

While "being thrifty" is important, it's experiences like this one that depict "the other side of the story". It almost makes one want to "pay more and drive cross country to buy from that dealer".... Well, figuratively speaking, anyway...

It's refreshing to hear about an overwhelmingly positive outcome.....
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:34 AM   #79
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Update:

Picked up the trailer from Folsom Lake RV yesterday. It has a new roof. They removed everything from the roof. Removed the trim and TPO. Removed the failed staples and replaced with screws. Installed another layer of luan with screws. Installed new TPO and roof components. Performed a leak test.

I also dropped off two Max Air vent covers and an RV door window with internal shade for them to install expecting to pay for the labor. They installed at no charge.

Kudos to Folsom Lake RV and their new management!
Great news,,, glad it came to a positive result.
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Old 01-22-2020, 10:23 AM   #80
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It's great to hear this worked out so well. I've personally had very good experiences with that dealership. This is why the selection of the right dealership makes all the different in the world with RV ownership.

This is so true and I wish everyone would take it into consideration. We are in FL and pricing on RVs just seem cheaper. One of the head guys for CW in IL told me to go to the Tampa show, pick one out and they would ship it to me. Looked at another in a different city and they all had great pricing....but;

DW and I talked about how MY dealership treats, and has treated, me. I didn't want to lose that despite CWs assurances. Decided to get one back in TX and those guys are breaking their backs for me to get it all sorted out; helpful, friendly, measuring, sending pictures etc. - and giving me some knockout pricing! After my first call with the GM I wondered how in the world I ever thought about buying somewhere else and we are very happy we came to our senses.
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