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Old 03-16-2018, 06:35 AM   #61
Nomadicchefs
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Is there a "burnt" smell?
No smell at all. Just smells like wood.
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Old 03-16-2018, 06:40 AM   #62
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Take the vent covers off and measure air temp unobstructed. Maybe the vents are absorbing some heat and giving a false reading?
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Old 03-16-2018, 06:56 AM   #63
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Take the vent covers off and measure air temp unobstructed. Maybe the vents are absorbing some heat and giving a false reading?
With vent covers off the temp only drops by about 7 or 8 degrees.
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Old 03-16-2018, 07:53 AM   #64
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Okay I just ran my little experiment. As I said earlier I have an Atwood 35k BTU furnace in my 2018 Keystone Cougar. I have two duct outlets in the floor. With the furnace running I'm getting a temperature rise at the closest duct of 100-110 degrees above ambient. The duct is about 3 foot from the furnace. The other duct is about 8 feet away and I get about 80-90 degrees rise there.

So I'm getting a temperature of just over 150 at the closest register when the temperature in the trailer was in the upper 40s. If it was 70 in the trailer I would expect to see about 170-180 degrees. That's very close to what you are getting.

Bottom line is it seems like it's working as it's supposed to.

I agree with the others that perhaps this is due to water soaking the floor at some point around the register. Or it could be the heat causing discoloration somehow.

I know that my trailer had water in it from leaking access doors in the pass through storage area when I got it. A big puddle on the floor next to the bed. It could have easily gone to the where the floor register was if I hadn't fixed it.

So if it was me I wouldn't be too worried. But I would continue to work with the dealer to resolve the floor discoloration though.

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Old 03-16-2018, 07:57 AM   #65
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Okay I just ran my little experiment. As I said earlier I have an Atwood 35k BTU furnace in my 2018 Keystone Cougar. I have two duct outlets in the floor. With the furnace running I'm getting a temperature rise at the closest duct of 100-110 degrees above ambient. The duct is about 3 foot from the furnace. The other duct is about 8 feet away and I get about 80-90 degrees rise there.

So I'm getting a temperature of just over 150 at the closest register when the temperature in the trailer was in the upper 40s. If it was 70 in the trailer I would expect to see about 170-180 degrees. That's very close to what you are getting.

Bottom line is it seems like it's working as it's supposed to.

I agree with the others that perhaps this is due to water soaking the floor at some point around the register. Or it could be the heat causing discoloration somehow.

I know that my trailer had water in it from leaking access doors in the pass through storage area when I got it. A big puddle on the floor next to the bed. It could have easily gone to the where the floor register was if I hadn't fixed it.

So if it was me I wouldn't be too worried. But I would continue to work with the dealer to resolve the floor discoloration though.

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I feel a sigh of relief, thanks for the experiment! We have a nearby rv dealer working out the kinks of warranty with Keystone, and they will be out sometime soon to check the furnace and vent.
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Old 03-16-2018, 08:03 AM   #66
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Great! I also sent an email to Atwood questioning a design that could expose you to a 200 degree floor register! I could only hold my hand on the register for a few seconds at 150 degrees!

I certainly know a lot more about my furnace now. Thinking about it I have hot water baseboard heat in the house and it runs 180-200 degree water through out the house all winter long. Pipes are in contact with flooring, floor joists, walls etc. No problems and there's millions of homes like ours! Also thousands of trailers with the same design out there too.

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Old 03-16-2018, 12:08 PM   #67
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After thinking about this again last night, I'm even more sure that this is some kind of water damage. The reason being, that if it was caused by heat, there would be evidence of melting of the vinyl surface and signs of the floor register imprinting itself into the flooring. I didn't notice any of that in the pics, but nomadchefs would be the best placed person to check for that.
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Old 03-16-2018, 05:15 PM   #68
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After thinking about this again last night, I'm even more sure that this is some kind of water damage. The reason being, that if it was caused by heat, there would be evidence of melting of the vinyl surface and signs of the floor register imprinting itself into the flooring. I didn't notice any of that in the pics, but nomadchefs would be the best placed person to check for that.
There's no imprint from the register, just the fact that it gets so hot is what made me assume it's a heat related issue. Since noticing it originally, the discoloration started with just 1 corner and has then spread to the other corners and along the one side. Our dealer FINALLY got back to me, not with heat concerns, but how I just need to use steel wool and gently remove the dark areas....I rolled my eyes so hard it hurt. They conpletely ignored my concerns, even after seeing the pictures of the floor. They offered no remedy or ideas, nothing like the amazing feedback I have received from so many on here. The manufacturer also has brushed me off, even after stating I feared a fire safety issue. Keystone is not concerned and told me to find a dealer. I guess I'm going to have to pay the service call and have the mobile repair find the problem. If it's water or furnace related, it needs fixed. I need a night of sleep without fear of fire. Thanks for all the feedback
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Old 03-16-2018, 06:24 PM   #69
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Nomad

I hate how this is going. I think you can see from the responses of the members we understand, and empathize, with your problem.

I don't remember the entire thread, and not going to re-read it, but, a response from your dealer to basically "clean up the discolored/charred" areas is totally unacceptable to me. Keystone will ALWAYS default to the dealer; that is where you have to get in the middle of it.

IMO you have an issue, a safety issue. If you are close enough to your dealer I would have the GM/owner by the collar demanding a resolution. Face to face works much better than letters, phone calls or emails. Good upper management wants to be involved and take care of issues. Lower management wants to make things "go away" in many cases. Jump that gap; get to the top guy and make your case forcefully and professionally. I've generally had great success with that.

You have worried over this quite some time. To me it's time to take stronger measures; asking, pleading, hoping and wishing aren't the way to make things happen with an intransigent dealer. Push them, from the top, to a tipping point.
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Old 03-16-2018, 06:29 PM   #70
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There's no imprint from the register, just the fact that it gets so hot is what made me assume it's a heat related issue. Since noticing it originally, the discoloration started with just 1 corner and has then spread to the other corners and along the one side. Our dealer FINALLY got back to me, not with heat concerns, but how I just need to use steel wool and gently remove the dark areas....I rolled my eyes so hard it hurt. They conpletely ignored my concerns, even after seeing the pictures of the floor. They offered no remedy or ideas, nothing like the amazing feedback I have received from so many on here. The manufacturer also has brushed me off, even after stating I feared a fire safety issue. Keystone is not concerned and told me to find a dealer. I guess I'm going to have to pay the service call and have the mobile repair find the problem. If it's water or furnace related, it needs fixed. I need a night of sleep without fear of fire. Thanks for all the feedback
Is there an area, say inside a cupboard or cabinet or closet, where you can cut a small piece of the linoleum from the floor soak it in water and see what happens? If it discolors in a similar fashion then it might be the answer to your puzzle. It seems to me, if this was an problem from the register "overheating" then you would see more than just what appears to be just the surface of the linoleum getting discolored. Also, Not sure if this is a 5th wheel or TT, but in my 5r, the furnace is behind a panel in the basement area. There is a flexible duct (like dryer hose)that comes off the furnace and into the under belly (if I recall...). Check yours, if there is one, is it crushed or blocked in any fashion? If so, this may be causing more heat being forced into that one vent, vs. being dissipated more evenly through all of the vents.
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Old 03-16-2018, 06:32 PM   #71
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Nomad

I hate how this is going. I think you can see from the responses of the members we understand, and empathize, with your problem.

I don't remember the entire thread, and not going to re-read it, but, a response from your dealer to basically "clean up the discolored/charred" areas is totally unacceptable to me. Keystone will ALWAYS default to the dealer; that is where you have to get in the middle of it.

IMO you have an issue, a safety issue. If you are close enough to your dealer I would have the GM/owner by the collar demanding a resolution. Face to face works much better than letters, phone calls or emails. Good upper management wants to be involved and take care of issues. Lower management wants to make things "go away" in many cases. Jump that gap; get to the top guy and make your case forcefully and professionally. I've generally had great success with that.

You have worried over this quite some time. To me it's time to take stronger measures; asking, pleading, hoping and wishing aren't the way to make things happen with an intransigent dealer. Push them, from the top, to a tipping point.
Thanks, I appreciate this. I spoke with the dealer near us and their senior manager has taken it upon himself to call keystone and is going to come out and look at the furnace. For the comments on water damage, he is also going to get in behind the panels and go underneath to find exactly what the problem is. They have been very kind in working to help me out, considering they aren't my dealer. As for where we bought the camper, yes the cosmetic reply blew me away. I'm extremely furious, but I tend to lose my cool in the language department when I get mad, so I'm doing my best to be ladylike �� as for now, until I can get the tech here, I'm fine with being in the camper to keep an eye on things. It at least gives me some peace of mind. Until I get a hold of the actual dealer to have my words with him, I do so very much appreciate all the feedback and helpful words.
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Old 03-16-2018, 06:36 PM   #72
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Is there an area, say inside a cupboard or cabinet or closet, where you can cut a small piece of the linoleum from the floor soak it in water and see what happens? If it discolors in a similar fashion then it might be the answer to your puzzle. It seems to me, if this was an problem from the register "overheating" then you would see more than just what appears to be just the surface of the linoleum getting discolored. Also, Not sure if this is a 5th wheel or TT, but in my 5r, the furnace is behind a panel in the basement area. There is a flexible duct (like dryer hose)that comes off the furnace and into the under belly (if I recall...). Check yours, if there is one, is it crushed or blocked in any fashion? If so, this may be causing more heat being forced into that one vent, vs. being dissipated more evenly through all of the vents.
I will do the linoleum test right now! Why did I not think to do this!? As for the duct, it's a TT and the furnace is to the right of my kitchen sink, in the bottom section of my countertop. The duct work is almost like that in a home, it's very stiff metal, not fragile or flexible. From what I can see, the duct from the furnace just T's off into the main line of ducting. No blockages that I have found.
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Old 03-16-2018, 06:38 PM   #73
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Thanks, I appreciate this. I spoke with the dealer near us and their senior manager has taken it upon himself to call keystone and is going to come out and look at the furnace. For the comments on water damage, he is also going to get in behind the panels and go underneath to find exactly what the problem is. They have been very kind in working to help me out, considering they aren't my dealer. As for where we bought the camper, yes the cosmetic reply blew me away. I'm extremely furious, but I tend to lose my cool in the language department when I get mad, so I'm doing my best to be ladylike �� as for now, until I can get the tech here, I'm fine with being in the camper to keep an eye on things. It at least gives me some peace of mind. Until I get a hold of the actual dealer to have my words with him, I do so very much appreciate all the feedback and helpful words.
Excellent news! Keep us posted as to what the problem is determined to be.
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Old 03-16-2018, 06:44 PM   #74
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I will do the linoleum test right now! Why did I not think to do this!? As for the duct, it's a TT and the furnace is to the right of my kitchen sink, in the bottom section of my countertop. The duct work is almost like that in a home, it's very stiff metal, not fragile or flexible. From what I can see, the duct from the furnace just T's off into the main line of ducting. No blockages that I have found.
Ah... ok. yes, my 5r has the rigid aluminum duct/raceway running the length of the floor supports with a vent cutout every 4 or so feet. The flexible dryer style duct is in comes off the furnace directly in the basement area and is routed to a couple of different areas. Also, I had a TT where the furnace was located under the fridge. I had to take off the intake grate and discovered one of the flexible ducts was partially crushed and hanging off where it attaches to the furnace. Do you have any air intake (like a house A/C return) located inside the trailer? if so, can you remove it or look through the grates and see any flexible ducting attached to the furnace, which may be in addition to the rigid ductwork under the floor?
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Old 03-16-2018, 06:48 PM   #75
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Ah... ok. yes, my 5r has the rigid aluminum duct/raceway running the length of the floor supports with a vent cutout every 4 or so feet. The flexible dryer style duct is in comes off the furnace directly in the basement area and is routed to a couple of different areas. Also, I had a TT where the furnace was located under the fridge. I had to take off the intake grate and discovered one of the flexible ducts was partially crushed and hanging off where it attaches to the furnace. Do you have any air intake (like a house A/C return) located inside the trailer? if so, can you remove it or look through the grates and see any flexible ducting attached to the furnace, which may be in addition to the rigid ductwork under the floor?
There is an intake I can get to. I'll have to get to it in the morning, have to charge my drill battery. The area where it goes from the furnace to the main line it runs under the floor under the sink, and that flooring is very warm to the touch. Not enough to burn or anything melt, but pretty warm like a coffee cup. Ive cut a piece of flooring and am running the test now. I have one piece in water and one in water then I put it under the vent cover to let that heat get to it. Thanks for the tips!!
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Old 03-16-2018, 07:06 PM   #76
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I'm pretty sure this is not charring of the flooring. The heat to do that is just not there and there is no other sign of anything like that around the duct work.

I wonder if the duct plenum is getting condensation on it and getting the flooring wet just around the underside of the plenum or register. You have mentioned that you're in an area where you have had single digit temps and frozen pipes. I'm sure you have noticed significant condensation on the inside of your trailer windows and other areas exposed to the cold temps. This duct could be getting exposed to cold air from the underbelly area and getting condensation forming under the lip of the duct plenum or register that you wouldn't see. But it would be wetting that edge of the flooring that is getting darkened.

Great idea to test some of the flooring by getting it wet. I would keep a close eye on the area for any moisture. Probably put everything back to normal and see if it sweats under the edge of the register or the duct plenum.
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Old 03-16-2018, 07:11 PM   #77
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I'm pretty sure this is not charring of the flooring. The heat to do that is just not there and there is no other sign of anything like that around the duct work.

I wonder if the duct plenum is getting condensation on it and getting the flooring wet just around the underside of the plenum or register. You have mentioned that you're in an area where you have had single digit temps and frozen pipes. I'm sure you have noticed significant condensation on the inside of your trailer windows and other areas exposed to the cold temps. This duct could be getting exposed to cold air from the underbelly area and getting condensation forming under the lip of the duct plenum or register that you wouldn't see. But it would be wetting that edge of the flooring that is getting darkened.

Great idea to test some of the flooring by getting it wet. I would keep a close eye on the area for any moisture. Probably put everything back to normal and see if it sweats under the edge of the register or the duct plenum.
This also is a grand thought! We have been using a dehumidifier, but an air gap somewhere causing condensation on the underside of the register makes so much sense! I just couldn't find where water could be coming in at. BRILLIANT. When we get the paneling off to look at the underbelly, we should be able to find this. Thank you!!
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Old 03-16-2018, 07:40 PM   #78
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Take a piece of the flooring and stick it down in the duct work to see what it does. Or put it in the oven at 200 degrees.

Also I would get some of that foil backed duct tape and seal up all around the edges of the duct so the cool air from the underbelly can't get in.



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Old 03-16-2018, 07:44 PM   #79
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Take a piece of the flooring and stick it down in the duct work to see what it does. Or put it in the oven at 200 degrees.

Also I would get some of that foil backed duct tape and seal up all around the edges of the duct so the cool air from the underbelly can't get in.



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Thanks, I'll do this right now.
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Old 03-18-2018, 06:24 AM   #80
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I'm sure some of us are curious if your experiments revealed anything?? Or if you've received a better diagnosis of what's going on.


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