Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Keystone Tech Forums > Technical Corner
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 03-01-2018, 03:11 PM   #1
WanderOne
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: TEMECULA
Posts: 34
EMS-HW50C Generator Problem

Does anyone know about the problem with EMS-HW50C and it not working with anything but the Honda Generator? I was just talking with support about the install and they said that if you use anything other than a Honda Generator the EMS throws E9 (data link down) error code. And they say there is no way around it. I asked about bypass and they said they can not recommend that for Liability reasons. Anyone have experience with this as I was looking at getting a Champion 3100watt / inverter generator for the same price as the 2000watt Honda as I could then run 1 AC.

WanderOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2018, 09:06 AM   #2
bobbecky
Senior Member
 
bobbecky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Box Elder
Posts: 2,509
When using a generator that does not have a bonded ground, such as the Honda generator, you just need a bonding plug, which you can buy or you can also make your own. Get a regular three prong plug, and with a piece of wire, connect the ground ( green) screw to the neutral (silver) screw. Just plug this into the other receptacle on the generator and you will be good. The EMS looks for a connection between the ground and the neutral, just like you would normally find on a pedestal, but these generators are not connected.
__________________
Bob & Becky
2012 3402 Montana
2012 Chevy 2500HD D/A CC
bobbecky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2018, 01:18 PM   #3
NorskeBob
Senior Member
 
NorskeBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Oswego
Posts: 604
I had problems with a Yamaha generator. Pulled the hard wired unit from the trailer and sold it. Purchased a portable unit with the same capabilities to address the issue.
__________________

RV - 2017 Avalanche 320RS
TV - 2011 Chevy Silverado 3500HD LTZ CCLB Duramax SRW 4X4
NorskeBob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2018, 04:43 PM   #4
WanderOne
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: TEMECULA
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorskeBob View Post
I had problems with a Yamaha generator. Pulled the hard wired unit from the trailer and sold it. Purchased a portable unit with the same capabilities to address the issue.
Yikes, just spent a day installing it.
WanderOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2018, 04:44 PM   #5
WanderOne
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: TEMECULA
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbecky View Post
When using a generator that does not have a bonded ground, such as the Honda generator, you just need a bonding plug, which you can buy or you can also make your own. Get a regular three prong plug, and with a piece of wire, connect the ground ( green) screw to the neutral (silver) screw. Just plug this into the other receptacle on the generator and you will be good. The EMS looks for a connection between the ground and the neutral, just like you would normally find on a pedestal, but these generators are not connected.
Do you have a picture or a link on what I need to buy?
WanderOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2018, 06:18 PM   #6
B-O-B'03
Senior Member
 
B-O-B'03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,073
I bought this plug, from home depot, took the cover off and connected the ground pin to the neutral pin. I plug it into the 20 amp outlet and the camper into the 30 amp.

My EMS and Champion 3100 are happy together now



-Brian
__________________
2014 Bullet Premier 22RBPR - let the camping commence!
2013 F150 Platinum - 5.0 - 3.55 ELD + towing package
B-O-B'03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2018, 08:14 PM   #7
Ductape
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Central NH
Posts: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbecky View Post
When using a generator that does not have a bonded ground, such as the Honda generator, you just need a bonding plug, which you can buy or you can also make your own. Get a regular three prong plug, and with a piece of wire, connect the ground ( green) screw to the neutral (silver) screw. Just plug this into the other receptacle on the generator and you will be good. The EMS looks for a connection between the ground and the neutral, just like you would normally find on a pedestal, but these generators are not connected.

^^^ This. I made my own plug with a bonded neutral. I didn't really get it at first either, but I did a search on youtube and found a good video or two. With my home made 'bonded neutral' plug in the generator, my EMS works as it should. I think I have under $5 into making the plug.

Not sure why anyone would remove a hard wired unit over $5 in making a plug ??? It really is that simple.
Ductape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2018, 05:37 AM   #8
Ddubya
Senior Member
 
Ddubya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Sherman
Posts: 326
Good info. I just ordered the Champion 3100. Why not wire the generator ground to neutral inside the generator? A little more time to do but a permanent solution.
__________________
2017 Alpine 3401RS,Titan Disc brakes,Morryde SRE 4000, 2016 Ram 3500HD Laramie SRW,LWB,4X4, Aisin transmission

Ddubya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2018, 09:29 AM   #9
Ductape
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Central NH
Posts: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ddubya View Post
Good info. I just ordered the Champion 3100. Why not wire the generator ground to neutral inside the generator? A little more time to do but a permanent solution.

I'll confess I don't know if there would be any down side to doing it that way. I made my bonded neutral plug because that is what Progressive Industries was doing to cure the issue between the generator and their EMSs. I haven't looked on their website lately, but a couple years ago they were selling their own bonded neutral plugs for about $20 each. Frankly, they were very vague when I called them as to what exactly needed to be done to make the EMS and my Honda EU200i compatible. No doubt they just wanted me to buy their 'special' plug for $20 plus shipping. It was their vagueness that made me seek out answers on youtube and make my own $5 plug.
Ductape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2018, 10:24 AM   #10
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 25,220
I would make a WAG that PI and other companies won't suggest a solution with a "home-made plug" for liability reasons. Anyone instructing someone on how to assemble the plug risks explaining to someone who has no knowledge of electricity and who may "interpret" that to make the plug, "you just wire up one of the pins to ground".... That could spell disaster if the "novice electrician" wires the hot lead to ground rather than the neutral lead..... So I'd guess that PI has a "hard and fast rule" to not instruct people how to "work around the safety features" and someone in their telephone support section who instructed a caller on how to build a "bypass plug" would probably put the company in a heavy liability situation if someone's kid was electrocuted and there was any way to link the plug to PI's instructions.....

Sort of like Ford instructing customers on how to bypass the safety belt interlock and the air bag switches.....
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2018, 03:52 PM   #11
Ddubya
Senior Member
 
Ddubya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Sherman
Posts: 326
This is an interesting article on this issue.

http://rvtravel.com/how-generator-ne...r-an-rv-works/
__________________
2017 Alpine 3401RS,Titan Disc brakes,Morryde SRE 4000, 2016 Ram 3500HD Laramie SRW,LWB,4X4, Aisin transmission

Ddubya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2018, 08:24 PM   #12
WanderOne
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: TEMECULA
Posts: 34
Progressive Industries told me that even with the Neutral plug the the Champion still throws a E-9 which is a data link issue and there is no way around that. I just talked with their tech last week. Anyone experiencing that? He said not to bother with the grounded neutral as their will still be an error.

?
WanderOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2018, 09:22 PM   #13
bobbecky
Senior Member
 
bobbecky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Box Elder
Posts: 2,509
I just re-read the original post after reading the last one, and I mis-read the problem. I am really struggling to understand how the EMS-HW50C can tell what brand generator is providing power to an RV. I'm pretty sure if this was accurate, they would have to say that only Honda generators can be used with this device, which would also be a major cause for most to not purchase this device. I would venture a guess that most generators will work just fine as long as all the voltage and phase conditions are met that the device looks at.
__________________
Bob & Becky
2012 3402 Montana
2012 Chevy 2500HD D/A CC
bobbecky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 07:39 AM   #14
WanderOne
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: TEMECULA
Posts: 34
Again, got off phone with PI tech last week. They said the problem is that with Champion it will throw 2 errors, E-2 Neutral Ground Issue and E-9 No Data Link. Their tech told me that if I go to the trouble of making a neutral ground there will still be a E-9 which is a "No Go" for letting power to your RV.

He was saying don't bother as you will still have a problem. I am asking if in fact anyone is getting the E-9? I haven't heard read anything on these post that supports what PI is in fact saying.
WanderOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 10:14 AM   #15
Ddubya
Senior Member
 
Ddubya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Sherman
Posts: 326
Champion generator

I will receive my Champion on Wednesday so I will check it out and post results.
That said here is a page from the PI manual
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image.png
Views:	311
Size:	195.2 KB
ID:	15550  
__________________
2017 Alpine 3401RS,Titan Disc brakes,Morryde SRE 4000, 2016 Ram 3500HD Laramie SRW,LWB,4X4, Aisin transmission

Ddubya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 11:53 AM   #16
IRV2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Acton
Posts: 121
Champion 3100

I had hooked mine genny up and didn't experience any issues with the hard wired surge guard 50 amp I installed last week.
IRV2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 12:28 PM   #17
WanderOne
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: TEMECULA
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRV2 View Post
I had hooked mine genny up and didn't experience any issues with the hard wired surge guard 50 amp I installed last week.
Was it a Champion?

Hondas they say will work.

Tom
WanderOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 01:01 PM   #18
MerlinB
Senior Member
 
MerlinB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Newport News, VA
Posts: 221
You can flip the switch on the remote control and bypass the EMS when you are running on generator power. I have a several year old Yamaha 2800 EFI and that is what I did before I made a ground bonding plug. Worked fine. I don't remember what error code I got before but after bonding the ground I don't get any error code at all.

I think PI is blowing smoke, you know where, to avoid the possibility of any liability issues if you muck something up while hooking up your generator.
__________________
Merlin B.
U.S. Army Aviator, Retired
2016 Cougar XLite 28SGS
2007.5 Ram 3500 DRW
MerlinB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2018, 05:46 AM   #19
Ddubya
Senior Member
 
Ddubya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Sherman
Posts: 326
Merln B is correct about turning off the EMS when using an Invertor/generator. There is no reason to use the EMS unless you are plugged into shore power. The EMS is to protect against improper or defective wiring from shore power.
So turn off the EMS when using the generator but make sure it is back on when you plug into shore power.
__________________
2017 Alpine 3401RS,Titan Disc brakes,Morryde SRE 4000, 2016 Ram 3500HD Laramie SRW,LWB,4X4, Aisin transmission

Ddubya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2018, 08:05 AM   #20
WanderOne
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: TEMECULA
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ddubya View Post
Merln B is correct about turning off the EMS when using an Invertor/generator. There is no reason to use the EMS unless you are plugged into shore power. The EMS is to protect against improper or defective wiring from shore power.
So turn off the EMS when using the generator but make sure it is back on when you plug into shore power.
Hey, I am all for it if that is the only option.
WanderOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
generator

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RVģ is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.