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Old 12-15-2017, 07:56 AM   #1
RoscoeV
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Keystone Cougar Recall - Stabilizer Jacks

I received a recall letter from Keystone yesterday stating there may be a safety issue with the way the stabilizer jacks are mounted to my frame. The letter states that the jacks may come loose and fall during travel and could cause damage to the TT or injury to others.

My TT is in storage now and I hate the thought of taking it all the way to the dealer (1 1/2 hour drive) to have him check it and say everything is okay. Or just tighten a few nuts & bolts.

I plan on driving to the storage lot this weekend to look it over, can anyone give me some pointers at what to look for except the obvious of loose nuts/bolts?

Thanks,
Bob
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Old 12-15-2017, 08:54 AM   #2
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This is purely speculation as I have only the same information as you, the letter from Keystone as it was published. For anyone who wants to see the actual recall, it's online at: http://www.keystonerv.com/media/9113...acks_-_web.pdf

My "guess" is that when they were installing the jacks "during assembly of the frame", someone used regular nuts, not nylocks on the jacks. On my XLite, there are 4 bolts that attach each jack to the jack plate that's welded to the frame rail. Two (not four) of those bolts have nylock nuts and two have regular nuts. The two (you guess which) consistently loosened, so I installed nylocks on all the bolts and no problems since. I'd suspect that what you'll find is that your jacks were installed with conventional nuts that could "work loose and cause the jack to fail during travel"....

If I were you, I wouldn't consider it a "oh goodness, go to the dealer in the morning" kind of recall. Chances are it's easily remedied by finding the owner's manual for the jacks (in your owner's packet) and verifying that the jacks are installed per the instructions. Then, after you've verified the installation, the next time you have the trailer at the dealer's service center, let them do the "recall inspection and paperwork" to clear the system.

Anyone who wants to verify the recall status of their trailer can do so at: http://www.keystonerv.com/customer-s...-notifications Just select your specific brand and review the recall history on all trailers in that lineup.
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Old 12-15-2017, 09:12 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
This is purely speculation as I have only the same information as you, the letter from Keystone as it was published. For anyone who wants to see the actual recall, it's online at: http://www.keystonerv.com/media/9113...acks_-_web.pdf

My "guess" is that when they were installing the jacks "during assembly of the frame", someone used regular nuts, not nylocks on the jacks. On my XLite, there are 4 bolts that attach each jack to the jack plate that's welded to the frame rail. Two (not four) of those bolts have nylock nuts and two have regular nuts. The two (you guess which) consistently loosened, so I installed nylocks on all the bolts and no problems since. I'd suspect that what you'll find is that your jacks were installed with conventional nuts that could "work loose and cause the jack to fail during travel"....

If I were you, I wouldn't consider it a "oh goodness, go to the dealer in the morning" kind of recall. Chances are it's easily remedied by finding the owner's manual for the jacks (in your owner's packet) and verifying that the jacks are installed per the instructions. Then, after you've verified the installation, the next time you have the trailer at the dealer's service center, let them do the "recall inspection and paperwork" to clear the system.

Anyone who wants to verify the recall status of their trailer can do so at: http://www.keystonerv.com/customer-s...-notifications Just select your specific brand and review the recall history on all trailers in that lineup.
Thanks John, I appreciate your response. Do you know what size nylocks you used? I could pick some up and install them over the weekend. I keep all my TT instructions in the TT and there isn't a hardware store close to the storage facility.


I called the dealership early this morning and I'm still waiting for the service manager to call me back.

Take care,
Bob
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Old 12-15-2017, 09:54 AM   #4
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My original bolts were 1/4" but I replaced them with 3/8" grade 5 bolts and nylocks. That meant drilling the holes slightly larger. The original holes were "a little sloppy" and the jack wobbled on the bolts when they were loose and the jacks moved a bit when they were tight and in use. So, I drilled the same size hole as the bolts and that eliminated all the slop. Call me "paranoid" but I also used star washers on the bolt head side and lock washers on the nut side of each bolt (as well as the nylocks). If it wasn't a concern, I'd just weld the jacks in place, but with the potential to drag them over something and damage them (making a replacement necessary) I would install them permanently, but that would mean more work if I ever damaged one. So, they remain "bolt on jacks" for a reason.

My guess is that your mount bolts are probably 1/4" standard bolts, but that's only a guess.

If you do get a good reading on exactly what Keystone is doing in the recall, please post it so we all can be aware of what's going on....
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Old 12-15-2017, 09:59 AM   #5
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I think John has it right but, I would place a call to the service manager and ask him. If it that easy maybe he will send you the nuts.
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Old 12-15-2017, 10:03 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken / Claudia View Post
I think John has it right but, I would place a call to the service manager and ask him. If it that easy maybe he will send you the nuts.
Thanks, Still waiting for the call back from the service manager.
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Old 12-15-2017, 12:11 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
...

Anyone who wants to verify the recall status of their trailer can do so at: http://www.keystonerv.com/customer-s...-notifications Just select your specific brand and review the recall history on all trailers in that lineup.
Interestingly enough, when I go look for my line (Premier) just two recalls are listed, and not 2016's thermostat miswire (16-261_-_bullet_passport_ac_wiring_-_web).
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Old 12-15-2017, 01:27 PM   #8
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Went out to look at mine and noticed that mine are welded to the frame.
Older 2013 Cougar.
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Old 12-15-2017, 01:32 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by ShacterShack View Post
Interestingly enough, when I go look for my line (Premier) just two recalls are listed, and not 2016's thermostat miswire (16-261_-_bullet_passport_ac_wiring_-_web).
Ken,

The "lines" really get clouded on some of the Keystone brands. The Premier is "really an upgraded Bullet" and not a brand of its own, even though it's listed separately from the Bullet line. I think the "listings on the Keystone website" go more by category/cost than by brand. If you look directly under the Premier name on the logo, it says, "PREMIER ultralight by Bullet".

I'm not defending the practice, heaven knows Keystone is confusing enough by itself without my help, but I think (my theory, not Keystone's) is that the recalls are listed the way the trailer brands are registered with NHTSA.

I think you'll find your model listed under the Bullet recalls (even though it's also listed separately on the website). The recall is listed as "2011-2017 Bullet and Passport A/C wiring"

Given the way Keystone lists their recalls, it's possible for someone with a Premier to look up recalls and not find their trailer listed with a recall, although it actually is listed in another location.

I just noticed this after your post, and I am going to send an email to the factory identifying the problem. Whether they do anything about it is another issue and something none of us can control.
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Old 12-15-2017, 02:46 PM   #10
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I received a call back from the service manager and he said that Keystone wants pictures before and after the work. They are to check welds and replace some of the bolt kits depending on the model.

For now I'm just going to make sure all the bolts are tight and take in for the repair before we go on our first outing next spring and let them fix it on their dime.

Thanks again John for your input.

--Bob
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Old 12-15-2017, 04:21 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
... I am going to send an email to the factory identifying the problem. Whether they do anything about it is another issue and something none of us can control.
Thank you!
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Old 12-16-2017, 03:49 AM   #12
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My original bolts were 1/4" but I replaced them with 3/8" grade 5 bolts and nylocks. That meant drilling the holes slightly larger. The original holes were "a little sloppy" and the jack wobbled on the bolts when they were loose and the jacks moved a bit when they were tight and in use. So, I drilled the same size hole as the bolts and that eliminated all the slop. Call me "paranoid" but I also used star washers on the bolt head side and lock washers on the nut side of each bolt (as well as the nylocks). If it wasn't a concern, I'd just weld the jacks in place, but with the potential to drag them over something and damage them (making a replacement necessary) I would install them permanently, but that would mean more work if I ever damaged one. So, they remain "bolt on jacks" for a reason.

My guess is that your mount bolts are probably 1/4" standard bolts, but that's only a guess.


If you do get a good reading on exactly what Keystone is doing in the recall, please post it so we all can be aware of what's going on....

Do you have the screw scissor type stabilizers? The 1/4" bolts sound kinda small!
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Old 12-16-2017, 06:19 AM   #13
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Do you have the screw scissor type stabilizers? The 1/4" bolts sound kinda small!
Yes I do have 24" scissors jacks. I agree, 1/4" is small, that along with the enlarged holes (probably "wobbled out") was why I drilled out the holes and installed larger bolts. I suppose I could have gone to 7/16 or even 1/2", but the 3/8" are holding well.

I'm strictly guessing here, but my thought is that Keystone wanted the weakest link to be the attachment hardware (maybe acting like a shear pin) to hold the jacks on the frame points. That way, if they were scraped on the pavement or if they were hung up on something on the road, they would "break away" rather than rip components off the frame... That's just my thinking, certainly nothing that I've discussed with the dealer or with Keystone. Of course, that doesn't explain why they weld some in place and use bolts on others, so who really knows?????
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Old 12-16-2017, 07:33 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
Yes I do have 24" scissors jacks. I agree, 1/4" is small, that along with the enlarged holes (probably "wobbled out") was why I drilled out the holes and installed larger bolts. I suppose I could have gone to 7/16 or even 1/2", but the 3/8" are holding well.

I'm strictly guessing here, but my thought is that Keystone wanted the weakest link to be the attachment hardware (maybe acting like a shear pin) to hold the jacks on the frame points. That way, if they were scraped on the pavement or if they were hung up on something on the road, they would "break away" rather than rip components off the frame... That's just my thinking, certainly nothing that I've discussed with the dealer or with Keystone. Of course, that doesn't explain why they weld some in place and use bolts on others, so who really knows?????
Speaking in my capacity as an engineer.... 3 or 4... 1/4 bolts are more than sufficient to hold the light gage scissor jacks used on the trailers a stabilizers from falling off... and I suspect that you are correct that the intent was to act as a type of shear protection in the event of dragging a jack...

The only thing that will be accomplished by increasing the bolt size in most cases is to negate the shear protection provided by the 1/4 bolts...
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Old 12-16-2017, 11:39 AM   #15
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Thanks for the insight, Javi. If my jack/mounting plate holes hadn't been "wobbled out" I'd have probably just left the OEM bolts in place and replaced the standard nuts with nylocks. But, since the bolts moved around in the oval holes, I wanted to "tighten things up a little bit and went to the 3/8" bolts, washers and nylocks. Except for the sloppy holes, I'd still have OEM installation hardware.
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