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Old 12-02-2017, 02:17 PM   #1
talk2cpu
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Upgrading everything

Looking for a little advice.
We are looking to upgrade from a bumper pull to a 5th wheel. The trailer maximum is 12995 lbs and dry hitch weight is 1980 lbs. The truck is a used 2014 Ram 2500 Laramie diesel with a mega cab. Tow capacity is well over the 13000 lbs for the truck, however the door sticker states the trucks cargo capacity is only 1800 lbs. The numbers I see on this forum tell me the truck cargo will NOT be enough to safely tow this trailer. I am sure the pin weight will be more than the stated "dry" pin weight when we are loaded. Am I seeing this correctly?

Thanks in advance for advice.
Tom
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Old 12-02-2017, 03:17 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by talk2cpu View Post
Looking for a little advice.
We are looking to upgrade from a bumper pull to a 5th wheel. The trailer maximum is 12995 lbs and dry hitch weight is 1980 lbs. The truck is a used 2014 Ram 2500 Laramie diesel with a mega cab. Tow capacity is well over the 13000 lbs for the truck, however the door sticker states the trucks cargo capacity is only 1800 lbs. The numbers I see on this forum tell me the truck cargo will NOT be enough to safely tow this trailer. I am sure the pin weight will be more than the stated "dry" pin weight when we are loaded. Am I seeing this correctly?

Thanks in advance for advice.
Tom
As a note. My 12300 GVWR cougar has a advertised pin weight of a little over 1,600 lb dry. The actual loaded pin weight of my trailer is between 2300 and 2400 pounds depending on what we've loaded in the front end.

When I bought this trailer I had an F250 with a stickered payload of 2600 lb, but by the time we had everything in the truck that we take camping and the trailer loaded we were nearly a thousand pounds over the GVWR of that F250.

You can figure between 22 and 25% of the GVWR for your PIN weight

Hence the F-350 dually.

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Old 12-02-2017, 03:25 PM   #3
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Thomas, that truck won't do the job. Javi has pointed you in the right direction. I don't know that you would need a dually, but I definitely think you need a 1 ton. My 3/4 has about a 3200 lb payload but that's because it's gas. The flip side is that I wouldn't begin to try to pull a 5th wheel with it.
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Old 12-02-2017, 03:29 PM   #4
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I agree, you are within 1Ton territory.
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Old 12-02-2017, 03:30 PM   #5
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Thomas, that truck won't do the job. Javi has pointed you in the right direction. I don't know that you would need a dually, but I definitely think you need a 1 ton. My 3/4 has about a 3200 lb payload but that's because it's gas. The flip side is that I wouldn't begin to try to pull a 5th wheel with it.
Yeah but I got tired of upgrading the trailer and then having to upgrade the tow vehicle. After the second time, I went Whole Hog. 🤣

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Old 12-02-2017, 03:44 PM   #6
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Tom, the 2500 Laramie with the diesel is a very capable TV. But, the 5er is a bit oversized for the 2500. Because we don't have the Laramie options, our Ram 2500 is rated at a little over 2k payload. Pulls our Cougar nicely but I wouldn't put anything bigger behind it for the reasons previously stated. So, yes, IMHO you are seeing this correctly.
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Old 12-02-2017, 03:53 PM   #7
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Thanks all
If I look at a truck with about 3000 lbs cargo "on the door post" is it likely always capable of the 13000 lb tow?
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Old 12-02-2017, 04:21 PM   #8
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Take the trailer gvw, say 13k, and multiply by 20% = 2600 for pin weight alone. A 3k payload would not give you enough margin for people, much less anything else. I wouldn't even start to look at a truck without a minimum 4k payload (probably more) and a diesel.

Edit; forget the tow ratings. They are pretty much hype IMO. You want truck specific numbers; payload, gvw, gawr etc. Modern diesels can "pull' a lot; the truck however cannot support (carry) what it can pull.
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Old 12-03-2017, 04:06 AM   #9
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That huge mega cab cuts into your cargo capacity also!
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Old 12-03-2017, 05:46 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by talk2cpu View Post
Looking for a little advice.
We are looking to upgrade from a bumper pull to a 5th wheel. The trailer maximum is 12995 lbs and dry hitch weight is 1980 lbs. The truck is a used 2014 Ram 2500 Laramie diesel with a mega cab. Tow capacity is well over the 13000 lbs for the truck, however the door sticker states the trucks cargo capacity is only 1800 lbs. The numbers I see on this forum tell me the truck cargo will NOT be enough to safely tow this trailer. I am sure the pin weight will be more than the stated "dry" pin weight when we are loaded. Am I seeing this correctly?

Thanks in advance for advice.
Tom
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
Take the trailer gvw, say 13k, and multiply by 20% = 2600 for pin weight alone. A 3k payload would not give you enough margin for people, much less anything else. I wouldn't even start to look at a truck without a minimum 4k payload (probably more) and a diesel.

Edit; forget the tow ratings. They are pretty much hype IMO. You want truck specific numbers; payload, gvw, gawr etc. Modern diesels can "pull' a lot; the truck however cannot support (carry) what it can pull.
Based on the statement above you have not bought the TV yet. the Ram mega cab is a payload killer. You should be able to find a nice post 2013 Ram Crew SRW cab with either a very high 3,000# to low 4,000# payload.

To Sourdough's statement I would take 25% as a starting pin weight, I currently run 22%+ pin on our 32' Copper Canyon.
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Old 12-03-2017, 07:06 AM   #11
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Time to buy a 2018 F150:
http://www.tfltruck.com/2017/08/2018...oad-mpg-specs/

Over 13K towing and 3300 lbs cargo. (sorry, can't help myself sometimes!)
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Old 12-03-2017, 07:26 AM   #12
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Time to buy a 2018 F150:
http://www.tfltruck.com/2017/08/2018...oad-mpg-specs/

Over 13K towing and 3300 lbs cargo. (sorry, can't help myself sometimes!)
I'd be more concerned with GCWR. Most trucks can tow more than their posted rate. It is what all the numbers say, not just 1 or 2 of the ratings.

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Old 12-03-2017, 07:29 AM   #13
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Time to buy a 2018 F150:
http://www.tfltruck.com/2017/08/2018...oad-mpg-specs/

Over 13K towing and 3300 lbs cargo. (sorry, can't help myself sometimes!)

They are getting up there with some pretty impressive numbers!

Personally, I can't imagine putting a 3200 lb. load on a 1/2 ton truck. Before I bought this HD truck I crawled under my old 1/2 ton (13), which I've owned dozens of, and just looked at the frame, suspension etc. Very big difference. I'm not sure what kind of longevity you would get from a light weight frame carrying 3200 lbs. day in and day out. Might look like some of the trucks I've seen that look like a V....and buckled in the middle.
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Old 12-03-2017, 08:37 AM   #14
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1 Ton territory for sure. Be safe out there and enjoy.


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Old 12-03-2017, 09:14 AM   #15
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I'd be more concerned with GCWR. Most trucks can tow more than their posted rate. It is what all the numbers say, not just 1 or 2 of the ratings.

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GCWR is NOT a hard number, not on any certification label as it is a rating based on power and gear ratio.
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Old 12-03-2017, 09:31 AM   #16
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They are coming out with a diesel version of the F150 in the spring.... come on, was just a joke but Ford seems serious about towing.... like they are in a specs war. All the 2018 F150s capable of towing anything are wayyyy outside my price range anyway.
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Old 12-03-2017, 09:52 AM   #17
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They are coming out with a diesel version of the F150 in the spring.... come on, was just a joke but Ford seems serious about towing.... like they are in a specs war. All the 2018 F150s capable of towing anything are wayyyy outside my price range anyway.
Watch the advertisements from GM and RAM. Within the next 60 days you'll start seeing them advertise either improved ratings or plans for next year's models to be the "best in class". They all (including Toyota and Nissan) get into the mold of being the biggest, or the lightest or the heaviest or the most comfortable or, if they can't claim one of those titles, they'll make a new title that they can be "superior".... It's been going on since Ford started making the F100 back in the '50's and Chevrolet introduced a competitive model.

The more trucks change, the more the marketing stays the same.......

As for affordability, the new 2018 F350 SRW diesel Platinum model starts at $80K and goes up from there. That's 5 times what our first home cost in the late '60's.....
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Old 12-03-2017, 10:08 AM   #18
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Watch the advertisements from GM and RAM. Within the next 60 days you'll start seeing them advertise either improved ratings or plans for next year's models to be the "best in class". They all (including Toyota and Nissan) get into the mold of being the biggest, or the lightest or the heaviest or the most comfortable or, if they can't claim one of those titles, they'll make a new title that they can be "superior".... It's been going on since Ford started making the F100 back in the '50's and Chevrolet introduced a competitive model.

The more trucks change, the more the marketing stays the same.......

As for affordability, the new 2018 F350 SRW diesel Platinum model starts at $80K and goes up from there. That's 5 times what our first home cost in the late '60's.....
Yes, but if you are willing to forego heated steering wheels, butt warmers, carpet, leather and other geegaws you can buy one for around 40K...

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Old 12-03-2017, 11:53 AM   #19
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Yes, but if you are willing to forego heated steering wheels, butt warmers, carpet, leather and other geegaws you can buy one for around 40K...

Javi
But......I like my geegaws!!

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Old 12-04-2017, 10:07 AM   #20
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Thanks all
WOW, really I could get a 2018 F150 equipped that would carry and haul the 5'r we are looking at? I wonder what all those options would cost and if a reasonable 1 ton might still be cheaper. Although the F150 might ride better when not loaded. I think I will still look at a 1 ton.

This forum is a great place to get the info needed to ensure you make the right purchase. We are pretty set on the fiver so now we know what we need to purchase for a truck, and we do not need the Mega cab anyway. Also since the Rambox option would present problems, that opens up any brand 1 ton. Probably, if new either Ram or Ford, GM products tend to be priced higher. After all it is my kids inheritance we will be spending!

Are there even hitch options that would allow a Rambox equipped truck to work with a 5"r?

Thanks
Tom
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