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Old 04-23-2017, 07:42 AM   #1
Dcbc82
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I'm looking to upgrade my Ford F150 to a 2017 F250 or a Ram 2500. My trailer grosses out at about 6500 lbs but want the power for going up into the mountains and maybe future larger trailer and something that will last many years. So what are your pro and cons on these 2 trucks. I hand a Dodge 1500 20 years ago, like both the Ford and Ram.
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Old 04-23-2017, 07:59 AM   #2
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If your going to upgrade your TV, do it once and be done. 350/3500 with a Diesel engine. I wouldn't do dodge without the aisian transmission.
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Old 04-23-2017, 08:02 AM   #3
agargano98
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I have the ram 3500srw crew cab with the 6.4L hemi. Plenty of power to pull my passport at 8000 gvwr. And i saved $12k with the gasser. I just dont tow enough to justify the added cost of the diesel
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Old 04-23-2017, 08:04 AM   #4
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If you're considering the possibility of a fifth wheel, I'd suggest stepping up to a F350/3500 series truck. The 10K GVW on all the 3/4 ton trucks seems to be a "brick wall" that's self imposed by the manufacturers, but one that makes owners face the "legal limits" instead of the "physical limits" of the truck.

If you're positive that you'll only have a travel trailer, then most any properly equipped F250/2500 series truck should do what you want.

As for the 2017 Ford truck, be aware that the gas engine (6.2l) now uses a "lighter duty" version transmission. Ford says it's 'robust with improvements in shift points to enhance the engine's performance". But, they just recalled all of them because of a "parking pall problem".... The transmission in the diesel trucks remains "tried and true" with 7 years of history behind it.
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Old 04-23-2017, 09:07 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dcbc82 View Post
I'm looking to upgrade my Ford F150 to a 2017 F250 or a Ram 2500. My trailer grosses out at about 6500 lbs but want the power for going up into the mountains and maybe future larger trailer and something that will last many years. So what are your pro and cons on these 2 trucks. I hand a Dodge 1500 20 years ago, like both the Ford and Ram.
Having received a lot of good, helpful info here i was in a similar dilemma, heres a post i wrote for another forum, which ~may~ help. This is just my situation...

I was in a very similar situation, heres my story. Im going to throw a bunch of numbers out, but these are my real world numbers with a few approximates.

Prior TV 2015 Ram 2500 4x4 CTD QC SB (GVWR 10k, front axle 6000, rear axle 6500, *** PAYLOAD sticker 2050*** passengers and cargo)

Purchased a 2016 Cougar 5th wheel GVWR 12050,

Because of the short box, I needed a slider ~250 pounds

On the way to pick up the 5r, I stopped at a CAT scale and weighed my truck: myself, my dad, full fuels and NOTHING else 8400 (front 5140, rear 3260) GVWR 10000 - 8400 = ***1600 available payload (reference the payload sticker info above)

Picked up the hitch, and 5r and stopped at the same CAT scale on the way home, filled up with fuel, and reweighed: myself, dad, hitch and EMPTY 5r (except dealer included things like batteries, propane, power cord, and the items the 5r came equipped with) total weight 19440 (front 5180 +40 pounds, ***rear 5540 +2280 pounds*** ~250 pounds of that is hitch weight, leaving ~1980 as pin weight, trailer axle 8720, so subtracting my original truck weight plus the hitch from the final scale ticket, put the 5r DRY weight as picked up from dealer at about 10790, figuring the universal pin weight ratios of anywhere between 20 and 25%

Now if you were to load the a 5r to its full GCWR (12050 in my case) 20% pin is 2410, and 25% pin is 3012.

Now add a 250 hitch, your 125 DW, a 180 pounds of kiddos, the Chihuahua, all your fuel, firewood, and anything else you want to take and you can see how it QUICKY puts you *legally* over weight... Remember the payload sticker earlier?? The EMPTY truck can *legally* carry only 2050 pounds BEFORE passengers, cargo hitch etc. (loaded trailer 20% pin 2410+250+125+180+200(misc stuff in the bed) = 3160 - 2050 = 1115 OVERWEIGHT

Did the truck sag when I hooked the dry trailer up? it dropped about 2", no big deal and it towed great from the dealer to home, then a few days later home to where its currently parked.

Was I still within the axel and tire limits? Yes. Could/did my truck *safely* pull the extra weight? Ye. Would I have never had an enforcement issue, or situation where being overweight could have put me in civil liability? Maybe.

I do work for an enforcement entity and YES you CAN be parked for being overweight and would have to make arraignments to get below your weight. In a real world scenario, would that actually happen, probably not, at least not in California, however, other states may be different. Also, not to detract from the purpose of this thread, in California, unless you have a class A (commercial) license, you DO need to get an RV endorsement to tow any 5th wheel weighing over 10000 GVWR but below 15000 GVWR.

I spent several weeks crunching numbers, researching forums, and tried to justify it in my mind that my truck was going to be just fine for the trailer we have. We have planned about a 4 week trip this summer into Oregon, Washington, Montana and back. While I knew I would not likely have an issue in California, I wasn't sure about the other states, and I didn't want that worry in the back of my mind, and I also didn't want to have the worry about any civil/legal issues if something were to happen.

Yes there is the belief the 10000 GVWR is an arbitrary limit for various reasons; yes, a lot of the components on the 2500 are the same as the 3500SWR, but in the end, in my mind it just wasn't worth the worry or concern about the "what-ifs". And I knew that NONE of the internet lawyers we see all over the various forums were going to offer their services and be willing to testify on my behalf as to how my truck, being ~1000 pounds overweight (legal limits) was not a factor if something was deemed to be my fault.

I remedied my concern at the end of March when I traded in my 2015 Ram 2500 CTD 4x4 QC SB Laramie Granite Crystal (I loved that truck) for a 2017 3500 DRW CTD 4x4 QC LB Laramie in Pearl White. Luckily I had significant equity in my truck that I was able to swing the deal, and my payment didn't change... I now don't won't have that worry when we're on our trip, and in the future, when we upgrade to a larger 5r, I'll already have the truck.

Do yourself a big favor, research the snot out of weights (both trucks and trailers) know your facts, percentages and figures when you go in. When you look at trucks, ask to see the door stickers. When I looked, I didnt look at the FMVSS sticker, I looked at the white/yellow payload sticker. I already knew the truck GVWR, my hitch weight, and how much my prior truck weighed. The truck I have now has a dry payload of 5650 (3600 more than the other truck?!)

Your research and figuring numbers will pay off now if your get the right truck to start, instead of wondering while on a long trip if the red and blue lights you see in your mirror may result in an overweight citation, or sitting parked on the shoulder dumping water from your holding tank...

And.... GO!
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Old 04-23-2017, 10:01 AM   #6
sourdough
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolo4u View Post
Having received a lot of good, helpful info here i was in a similar dilemma, heres a post i wrote for another forum, which ~may~ help. This is just my situation...

I was in a very similar situation, heres my story. Im going to throw a bunch of numbers out, but these are my real world numbers with a few approximates.

Prior TV 2015 Ram 2500 4x4 CTD QC SB (GVWR 10k, front axle 6000, rear axle 6500, *** PAYLOAD sticker 2050*** passengers and cargo)

Purchased a 2016 Cougar 5th wheel GVWR 12050,

Because of the short box, I needed a slider ~250 pounds

On the way to pick up the 5r, I stopped at a CAT scale and weighed my truck: myself, my dad, full fuels and NOTHING else 8400 (front 5140, rear 3260) GVWR 10000 - 8400 = ***1600 available payload (reference the payload sticker info above)

Picked up the hitch, and 5r and stopped at the same CAT scale on the way home, filled up with fuel, and reweighed: myself, dad, hitch and EMPTY 5r (except dealer included things like batteries, propane, power cord, and the items the 5r came equipped with) total weight 19440 (front 5180 +40 pounds, ***rear 5540 +2280 pounds*** ~250 pounds of that is hitch weight, leaving ~1980 as pin weight, trailer axle 8720, so subtracting my original truck weight plus the hitch from the final scale ticket, put the 5r DRY weight as picked up from dealer at about 10790, figuring the universal pin weight ratios of anywhere between 20 and 25%

Now if you were to load the a 5r to its full GCWR (12050 in my case) 20% pin is 2410, and 25% pin is 3012.

Now add a 250 hitch, your 125 DW, a 180 pounds of kiddos, the Chihuahua, all your fuel, firewood, and anything else you want to take and you can see how it QUICKY puts you *legally* over weight... Remember the payload sticker earlier?? The EMPTY truck can *legally* carry only 2050 pounds BEFORE passengers, cargo hitch etc. (loaded trailer 20% pin 2410+250+125+180+200(misc stuff in the bed) = 3160 - 2050 = 1115 OVERWEIGHT

Did the truck sag when I hooked the dry trailer up? it dropped about 2", no big deal and it towed great from the dealer to home, then a few days later home to where its currently parked.

Was I still within the axel and tire limits? Yes. Could/did my truck *safely* pull the extra weight? Ye. Would I have never had an enforcement issue, or situation where being overweight could have put me in civil liability? Maybe.

I do work for an enforcement entity and YES you CAN be parked for being overweight and would have to make arraignments to get below your weight. In a real world scenario, would that actually happen, probably not, at least not in California, however, other states may be different. Also, not to detract from the purpose of this thread, in California, unless you have a class A (commercial) license, you DO need to get an RV endorsement to tow any 5th wheel weighing over 10000 GVWR but below 15000 GVWR.

I spent several weeks crunching numbers, researching forums, and tried to justify it in my mind that my truck was going to be just fine for the trailer we have. We have planned about a 4 week trip this summer into Oregon, Washington, Montana and back. While I knew I would not likely have an issue in California, I wasn't sure about the other states, and I didn't want that worry in the back of my mind, and I also didn't want to have the worry about any civil/legal issues if something were to happen.

Yes there is the belief the 10000 GVWR is an arbitrary limit for various reasons; yes, a lot of the components on the 2500 are the same as the 3500SWR, but in the end, in my mind it just wasn't worth the worry or concern about the "what-ifs". And I knew that NONE of the internet lawyers we see all over the various forums were going to offer their services and be willing to testify on my behalf as to how my truck, being ~1000 pounds overweight (legal limits) was not a factor if something was deemed to be my fault.

I remedied my concern at the end of March when I traded in my 2015 Ram 2500 CTD 4x4 QC SB Laramie Granite Crystal (I loved that truck) for a 2017 3500 DRW CTD 4x4 QC LB Laramie in Pearl White. Luckily I had significant equity in my truck that I was able to swing the deal, and my payment didn't change... I now don't won't have that worry when we're on our trip, and in the future, when we upgrade to a larger 5r, I'll already have the truck.

Do yourself a big favor, research the snot out of weights (both trucks and trailers) know your facts, percentages and figures when you go in. When you look at trucks, ask to see the door stickers. When I looked, I didnt look at the FMVSS sticker, I looked at the white/yellow payload sticker. I already knew the truck GVWR, my hitch weight, and how much my prior truck weighed. The truck I have now has a dry payload of 5650 (3600 more than the other truck?!)

Your research and figuring numbers will pay off now if your get the right truck to start, instead of wondering while on a long trip if the red and blue lights you see in your mirror may result in an overweight citation, or sitting parked on the shoulder dumping water from your holding tank...

And.... GO!

EXCELLENT POST!! Thanks. And now.....I have nothing to say!!
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Old 04-23-2017, 10:10 AM   #7
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The cost difference between the 250/2500 vs 350/3500 is negligible. Save the step, headache and extra work and get the bigger truck.

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Old 04-23-2017, 05:37 PM   #8
CaptnJohn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolo4u View Post
Having received a lot of good, helpful info here i was in a similar dilemma, heres a post i wrote for another forum, which ~may~ help. This is just my situation...

I was in a very similar situation, heres my story. Im going to throw a bunch of numbers out, but these are my real world numbers with a few approximates.

Prior TV 2015 Ram 2500 4x4 CTD QC SB (GVWR 10k, front axle 6000, rear axle 6500, *** PAYLOAD sticker 2050*** passengers and cargo)

Purchased a 2016 Cougar 5th wheel GVWR 12050,

Because of the short box, I needed a slider ~250 pounds

On the way to pick up the 5r, I stopped at a CAT scale and weighed my truck: myself, my dad, full fuels and NOTHING else 8400 (front 5140, rear 3260) GVWR 10000 - 8400 = ***1600 available payload (reference the payload sticker info above)

Picked up the hitch, and 5r and stopped at the same CAT scale on the way home, filled up with fuel, and reweighed: myself, dad, hitch and EMPTY 5r (except dealer included things like batteries, propane, power cord, and the items the 5r came equipped with) total weight 19440 (front 5180 +40 pounds, ***rear 5540 +2280 pounds*** ~250 pounds of that is hitch weight, leaving ~1980 as pin weight, trailer axle 8720, so subtracting my original truck weight plus the hitch from the final scale ticket, put the 5r DRY weight as picked up from dealer at about 10790, figuring the universal pin weight ratios of anywhere between 20 and 25%

Now if you were to load the a 5r to its full GCWR (12050 in my case) 20% pin is 2410, and 25% pin is 3012.

Now add a 250 hitch, your 125 DW, a 180 pounds of kiddos, the Chihuahua, all your fuel, firewood, and anything else you want to take and you can see how it QUICKY puts you *legally* over weight... Remember the payload sticker earlier?? The EMPTY truck can *legally* carry only 2050 pounds BEFORE passengers, cargo hitch etc. (loaded trailer 20% pin 2410+250+125+180+200(misc stuff in the bed) = 3160 - 2050 = 1115 OVERWEIGHT

Did the truck sag when I hooked the dry trailer up? it dropped about 2", no big deal and it towed great from the dealer to home, then a few days later home to where its currently parked.

Was I still within the axel and tire limits? Yes. Could/did my truck *safely* pull the extra weight? Ye. Would I have never had an enforcement issue, or situation where being overweight could have put me in civil liability? Maybe.

I do work for an enforcement entity and YES you CAN be parked for being overweight and would have to make arraignments to get below your weight. In a real world scenario, would that actually happen, probably not, at least not in California, however, other states may be different. Also, not to detract from the purpose of this thread, in California, unless you have a class A (commercial) license, you DO need to get an RV endorsement to tow any 5th wheel weighing over 10000 GVWR but below 15000 GVWR.

I spent several weeks crunching numbers, researching forums, and tried to justify it in my mind that my truck was going to be just fine for the trailer we have. We have planned about a 4 week trip this summer into Oregon, Washington, Montana and back. While I knew I would not likely have an issue in California, I wasn't sure about the other states, and I didn't want that worry in the back of my mind, and I also didn't want to have the worry about any civil/legal issues if something were to happen.

Yes there is the belief the 10000 GVWR is an arbitrary limit for various reasons; yes, a lot of the components on the 2500 are the same as the 3500SWR, but in the end, in my mind it just wasn't worth the worry or concern about the "what-ifs". And I knew that NONE of the internet lawyers we see all over the various forums were going to offer their services and be willing to testify on my behalf as to how my truck, being ~1000 pounds overweight (legal limits) was not a factor if something was deemed to be my fault.

I remedied my concern at the end of March when I traded in my 2015 Ram 2500 CTD 4x4 QC SB Laramie Granite Crystal (I loved that truck) for a 2017 3500 DRW CTD 4x4 QC LB Laramie in Pearl White. Luckily I had significant equity in my truck that I was able to swing the deal, and my payment didn't change... I now don't won't have that worry when we're on our trip, and in the future, when we upgrade to a larger 5r, I'll already have the truck.

Do yourself a big favor, research the snot out of weights (both trucks and trailers) know your facts, percentages and figures when you go in. When you look at trucks, ask to see the door stickers. When I looked, I didnt look at the FMVSS sticker, I looked at the white/yellow payload sticker. I already knew the truck GVWR, my hitch weight, and how much my prior truck weighed. The truck I have now has a dry payload of 5650 (3600 more than the other truck?!)

Your research and figuring numbers will pay off now if your get the right truck to start, instead of wondering while on a long trip if the red and blue lights you see in your mirror may result in an overweight citation, or sitting parked on the shoulder dumping water from your holding tank...

And.... GO!
I was in the same situation and traded a 6 month old F250 for a new F350. No worries!
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Old 04-24-2017, 09:41 AM   #9
Outback 325BH
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Originally Posted by CaptnJohn View Post
I was in the same situation and traded a 6 month old F250 for a new F350. No worries!


That was an expensive sticker! (Assuming you went SRW, but not sure.)


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Old 04-24-2017, 09:54 AM   #10
nellie1289
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800$, get the 3500/350 SRW. 2500's should not even be made
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Old 04-24-2017, 10:18 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Outback 325BH View Post
That was an expensive sticker! (Assuming you went SRW, but not sure.)


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Actually, had nearly 20K miles on the truck in 6 months. I'm on a program with Ford so get a discount plus all the rebates and incentives. So ~~ the trade value was near what I paid for it and even more rebates on the F350. The loss was extremely minimal ~~ $***.00 Could not have rented a Honda for that for 1/2 the time.
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