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Old 04-10-2017, 08:28 AM   #1
WarEagle
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Question Progressive Industries EMS-HW50C E2 error message

Ok, picked up my camper and took it to its permanent setup location.

We had an issue with the EMS-HW50C and I needed some feedback . I put the EMS in bypass mode so I could get power temporarily.

We were getting the E2 error message which is an open ground issue. I have a inverter installed for the Samsung fridge. Currently the inverter is turned on; however I have shore power plugged in.

Could it be the fact that the inverter is powered on? Should the inverter be turned off? We will be leaving food in the fridge and I am worried in the event of a surge that the food will go bad.

Or is it that the installer did not install the EMS-HW50C correctly due to the inverter?

Or could it be that I need to call the power company to review my power box for an issue?

THANK YOU FOR ANY FEEDBACK!!!
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Old 04-10-2017, 09:24 AM   #2
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BTW - I do not have a generator.
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Old 04-10-2017, 09:41 AM   #3
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Couple questions: when you said just picked it up, is this the first tine that you have been there when it was connected to shore power? Remember that inverter is a separate 110 VAC source in your case just for the frig. Have you tried another camp site pedestal?
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Old 04-10-2017, 09:42 AM   #4
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Turn off the inverter... Then unplug the power cord for at least two minutes to reset the EMS... then plug the power cord back in and see if the fault is gone... If it faults again call the electrician...

BTW bypassing the EMS with a ground fault is not a safe thing to do...
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Old 04-10-2017, 09:54 AM   #5
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Is the site a new one? Is the 50A service new or have you used it before?

Follow the above instructions and if it doesn't work you might do the following;

Take a vom set to ohms and check the ground pin on the receptacle by sticking the neg wire to the meter in it then put the other lead to a known good ground at the ped. If the ground is good you should peg the meter (set at 200/1000 ohms. If it doesn't move or just moves slightly you have a bad ground. Or, set the meter to AC, 200 volts (or something over 120), put the negative lead in the ground receptacle and the pos. lead into each of the positive leads from the 50A plug. You should read 120v on each leg; if not, put the neg. lead in the neutral receptacle and repeat - you should see 120vac there on each leg. If you read voltage to the neutral and but not from the ground you have a bad ground. Just some things to check if the aforementioned items don't find the problem.
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Old 04-10-2017, 10:24 AM   #6
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Sounds like the inverter has a floating neutral just like most (all) inverter generators.

A simple $5 circuit tester would diagnose the problem.

If the problem is an open neutral, the question would be, it the inverter supposed to be setup like that? If so, a simple neutral/ground bond plug would quickly fix the problem.


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Old 04-10-2017, 11:02 AM   #7
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This is a lot I purchased at an RV park. So no testing on another site. People have used the site previous to me. I go back this weekend so I will try the suggestions above.

Thank you!
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Old 04-10-2017, 11:04 AM   #8
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Unless I'm totally misunderstanding EMS systems, they are there to monitor INCOMING power from the pedestal....not what's happening downstream of the device. If that's the case, the inverter would have nothing to do with the E-2 fault.

Sourdough have some good advice, albeit a bit confusing when referring to using the meter on ohms setting. The bottom line is to take an ohm reading from the ground pin of the receptacle to a known good ground and the reading should be right at zero ohms. If it reads open our has a high resistance, the pedestal has an open ground just like the EMS reported to you
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Old 04-10-2017, 02:12 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrated View Post
Unless I'm totally misunderstanding EMS systems, they are there to monitor INCOMING power from the pedestal....not what's happening downstream of the device. If that's the case, the inverter would have nothing to do with the E-2 fault.

Sourdough have some good advice, albeit a bit confusing when referring to using the meter on ohms setting. The bottom line is to take an ohm reading from the ground pin of the receptacle to a known good ground and the reading should be right at zero ohms. If it reads open our has a high resistance, the pedestal has an open ground just like the EMS reported to you


An inverter would be in incoming ac power.


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Old 04-10-2017, 02:21 PM   #10
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Unless I'm totally misunderstanding EMS systems, they are there to monitor INCOMING power from the pedestal....not what's happening downstream of the device. If that's the case, the inverter would have nothing to do with the E-2 fault.

Sourdough have some good advice, albeit a bit confusing when referring to using the meter on ohms setting. The bottom line is to take an ohm reading from the ground pin of the receptacle to a known good ground and the reading should be right at zero ohms. If it reads open our has a high resistance, the pedestal has an open ground just like the EMS reported to you
Ha!! I guess I carried a Simpson 260 analog meter for so many years that I was just seeing that needle peg the scale Forgot we all use digital meters now
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Old 04-10-2017, 02:33 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Outback 325BH View Post
An inverter would be in incoming ac power.


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OK, I'm new to the RV world, as most of you probably know, and I don't have an inverter in my Toy Hauler, so I've got zero experience with them. So let me ask this....
Does the output from the Inverter (120VAC) come into the Surge Supressor/EMS on the same side of it, as the shore power and or genreator?
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Old 04-10-2017, 02:37 PM   #12
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Ha!! I guess I carried a Simpson 260 analog meter for so many years that I was just seeing that needle peg the scale Forgot we all use digital meters now
Ahh yes, the old reliable Simpson 260. When I was going through my Electrical Apprenticeship, where I worked, and you finally got your setup to Journeyman, the company gave you your own personal Simpson 260 to use. But after years and years of use, and the advent of the newer digital meters like the Fluke brand, I ended up giving mine to someone....and let it go. We weren't allow to take it with us when we retired, but I did leave with a Fluke 87, a Fluke 78, and another one that I don't remember the number of.
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Old 04-10-2017, 02:43 PM   #13
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Ahh yes, the old reliable Simpson 260. When I was going through my Electrical Apprenticeship, where I worked, and you finally got your setup to Journeyman, the company gave you your own personal Simpson 260 to use. But after years and years of use, and the advent of the newer digital meters like the Fluke brand, I ended up giving mine to someone....and let it go. We weren't allow to take it with us when we retired, but I did leave with a Fluke 87, a Fluke 78, and another one that I don't remember the number of.
When we phased out the Simpson's we went to Fluke as well. Digital was much better when looking for fluctuating voltage etc. but I wouldn't get rid of my Simpson. It, and I, were getting pretty long in the tooth when I dropped it off a ladder. Even though it had the hard cover with the sliding front it ended my Simpson.......... Sorry for getting off topic - back to the thread
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Old 04-10-2017, 03:02 PM   #14
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OK, I'm new to the RV world, as most of you probably know, and I don't have an inverter in my Toy Hauler, so I've got zero experience with them. So let me ask this....

Does the output from the Inverter (120VAC) come into the Surge Supressor/EMS on the same side of it, as the shore power and or genreator?


Most of the time an EMS is installed close to the breaker box which has a single input. When rigs have inverters, they are usually installed upstream. Something has to switch the power so there isn't two power inputs to the main ac panel at the same time. The EMS can be installed close to the panel so the input to the EMS would be from any source (shore, inverter, generator, etc.).

It is a matter of where the EMS was installed and how the inverter was installed. Lots of configurations out there ranging from factory to home-grown.

The E2 error code from the PI EMS is when the ground and neutral are not bonded. This is a classic error when using a generator with a open/floating neutral and is easily fixed with a bonding plug inserted into a receptacle on the generator. I simply figured the same problem could be from the inverter. I could be wrong but was wanting to throw and idea out there that could be easily fixed... although I don't know if there is a receptacle on the inverter or if there is an option on the inverter to bond.

When on shore power, neutral/ground bonding occur upstream from the pedestal... or possibly at the pedestal, depending on how it is installed.

If you ever look inside your main breaker panel, you will see the neutrals isolated from the grounds via separate buss bars. This is because neutral/ground bonding should occur in only one location. This is why a generator or inverter that does not provide the bonding causes an error in the EMS. A simple plug that connects (bonds) the ground and neutral lugs will fix the issue.


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Old 04-10-2017, 03:28 PM   #15
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What I'm asking is this. The output from the inverter....is it downstream (load side) of the EMS. In a normal configuration, as in my Toy Hauler, shore power comes into the Transfer switch. Generator Power comes into the transfer switch, then on the load side (downstream of the transfer swich), the power goes out to the breaker panel Main breakers, which then get distributed via the panel buses to the individual breakers. So my question is ......where does the output from the inverter (the 120VAC) go?.....is it just separate circuits? My point is, that anything that is downstream (load side) of the EMS, should not affect the operation of the EMS, as it is monitoring and protecting the incoming voltage from the power pedestal........is this correct?
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Old 04-10-2017, 03:33 PM   #16
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If the EMS is installed before the transfer switch it will only protect the input from the pedestal, if installed between the transfer switch and the fuse panel it will protect the whole system... However if after the transfer switch it will fault for an ungrounded gen set or inverter.

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Old 04-10-2017, 03:35 PM   #17
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The inverter in the original question is on the DC circuit, where the 12 volts is converted to 120 volts, and feeds the Samsung fridge. This is totally isolated from the 120 volt incoming feed. The issue is strictly located between the pedestal and the camper, so could be in the pedestal, the cable connections at either end, or inside wiring from the trailer connection to the EMS. The EMS looks at the line side (incoming) power, not at load side (trailer side) of the EMS for problems.
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Old 04-10-2017, 03:46 PM   #18
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Quote:
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What I'm asking is this. The output from the inverter....is it downstream (load side) of the EMS. In a normal configuration, as in my Toy Hauler, shore power comes into the Transfer switch. Generator Power comes into the transfer switch, then on the load side (downstream of the transfer switch), the power goes out to the breaker panel Main breakers, which then get distributed via the panel buses to the individual breakers. So my question is ......where does the output from the inverter (the 120VAC) go?.....is it just separate circuits? My point is, that anything that is downstream (load side) of the EMS, should not affect the operation of the EMS, as it is monitoring and protecting the incoming voltage from the power pedestal........is this correct?
Not sure where you are going with this inverter thing The Op's reference was to the fact he had a residential Frig, which requires 110 VAC to function, his rig like all other having a residential frig has an inverter to supply 110 VAC when not connected to shore power. So the inverter sole function is to provide 110V AC to the single curcuit to the frig when only power source available is the batteries.

Not sure if this is true for all but some inverters have an integral transfer switch which will power the frig circuit from shore power when available thereby saving the batteries.
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Old 04-10-2017, 03:50 PM   #19
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Not sure where you are going with this inverter thing The Op's reference was to the fact he had a residential Frig, which requires 110 VAC to function, his rig like all other having a residential frig has an inverter to supply 110 VAC when not connected to shore power. So the inverter sole function is to provide 110V AC to the single curcuit to the frig when only power source available is the batteries.



Not sure if this is true for all but some inverters have an integral transfer switch which will power the frig circuit from shore power when available thereby saving the batteries.


I went back and reread. I missed the fact where the inverter was only for the fridge. I assumed the inverter was energizing the whole coach and was routed to the EMS.




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Old 04-10-2017, 03:59 PM   #20
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The inverter in the original question is on the DC circuit, where the 12 volts is converted to 120 volts, and feeds the Samsung fridge. This is totally isolated from the 120 volt incoming feed. The issue is strictly located between the pedestal and the camper, so could be in the pedestal, the cable connections at either end, or inside wiring from the trailer connection to the EMS. The EMS looks at the line side (incoming) power, not at load side (trailer side) of the EMS for problems.
That would be the question, is the inverter whole house or isolated to the fridge... I can't answer that one. The only time I've used an inverter in was whole house.

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