Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Keystone Tech Forums > Tow Vehicles
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 01-03-2017, 06:49 AM   #1
bagged123
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: The NW Hills of CT
Posts: 87
upgrading 2500 to 3500

OK, So I'm officially upgrading my '16 GMC 2500 to a 3500, I'm seeing some good deals on 2016 SRW 3500 CC Standard Box Duramax's out there, not so much on the dually's. We have narrowed the 5'er model we are upgrading to, the 3661 RL and the new 3811MS, both max out (per sticker) around 16,7#. We have no plans or desire in putting a washer and drier in it, which will increase the pin. Will a SRW 3500 Duramax work for either one of these, or should I just get the dually, maybe a used low mileage one since new ones are few and far between if at all in my area. We currently run lite in our 32' TT when we go on trips, and even when we went to VA Beach, we were lite,
__________________
Mike
2016 Chevy 3500 CC Dually Duramx LTZ (aka: BigBootyJudy)
2013 PT Tracer 3200 BHT
bagged123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2017, 07:13 AM   #2
CWSWine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Kansas
Posts: 308
If you are talking about the Montana line with a SRW and concerned about staying below your trucks GVWR you probably going to be close or over on most of the Montana line. Loaded ready to camp you find that your dry pin will increase between 600 to 1000 lbs depend on how much you load. Then put people, hitch and stuff in the truck you will lose 400 to 600 lbs of the trucks payload.

Here is a site that does a good job and guess what your pin will be using dry weights.

http://towingplanner.com/Estimators/...0&lw=14640&a=3

Still have to account for the above pin weight but also the weight you put into the the truck.

Some exceptions would be toy haulers and front living room are little harder to predict.
__________________
Current
2017 Fleetwood Discovery 40D Class A Diesel Pusher
Past
2016 GMC Denila 1 ton Diesel CC 3722
2017 Grand Design Solitude 310GK-R
Montana 3711FL Front Living Room 5er
CWSWine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2017, 07:20 AM   #3
bagged123
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: The NW Hills of CT
Posts: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by CWSWine View Post
If you are talking about the Montana line with a SRW and concerned about staying below your trucks GVWR you probably going to be close or over on most of the Montana line. Loaded ready to camp you find that your dry pin will increase between 600 to 1000 lbs depend on how much you load. Then put people, hitch and stuff in the truck you will lose 400 to 600 lbs of the trucks payload.

Here is a site that does a good job and guess what your pin will be using dry weights.

http://towingplanner.com/Estimators/...0&lw=14640&a=3

Still have to account for the above pin weight but also the weight you put into the the truck.

Some exceptions would be toy haulers and front living room are little harder to predict.
yeah, the Montana line models.
__________________
Mike
2016 Chevy 3500 CC Dually Duramx LTZ (aka: BigBootyJudy)
2013 PT Tracer 3200 BHT
bagged123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2017, 08:06 AM   #4
CWSWine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Kansas
Posts: 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by bagged123 View Post
yeah, the Montana line models.
I had the Montana 3711FL which had every little storage forward of the axles with the pantry, bathroom and bedroom behind the axles and the fridge over the aft axle. The basement storage was 30" wide so not much there either. My F350 1 Ton Diesel had a yellow tag CC of 3744 (web CC 4080) and I fought GVWR the entire time I had the 5er. With the rear bedroom the more stuff the wife put in the bedroom the light the pin got so that was a plus but the more weight in the rear of the 5er the worse towed with SRW Supercab 1 ton 141" WB.

Here is a scale weight loaded for week end trip and again very little weight forward of the axles.

http://towingplanner.com/ActualWeigh...&w2da=3480&a=2
__________________
Current
2017 Fleetwood Discovery 40D Class A Diesel Pusher
Past
2016 GMC Denila 1 ton Diesel CC 3722
2017 Grand Design Solitude 310GK-R
Montana 3711FL Front Living Room 5er
CWSWine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2017, 12:58 PM   #5
cardinal96ss
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 423
We tow with a 3500 Duramax dually and couldn't be happier. Lots of stability on the road, pin weight capacity for those "unplanned" RV mods, and fewer constraints when shopping for a new RV. I have far more confidence when towing than I had with the 2500.
The only problem I have come across with the dually is when driving (without the RV) in snow or on ice since the outer wheels cut a new path thru the snow and the rear end weight is distributed over double the tire footprint.
That said, I will always tow with a dually.
cardinal96ss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2017, 02:39 PM   #6
Barbell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 375
We also recently went to a 3500 dually from a 2500. Although never had a minute of worry with the old truck, the new one is head and shoulders better. Since we live in Arizona and our travels are to the warmer parts of the country, we see snow and mud very rarely, so the wide rear end is not a problem for us. If we ever do get caught in a storm, we will just hunker down and wait it out. No plans to tow on any slick road.
Barbell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2017, 05:30 AM   #7
Javi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Waco, Tx
Posts: 5,451
Quote:
Originally Posted by cardinal96ss View Post
We tow with a 3500 Duramax dually and couldn't be happier. Lots of stability on the road, pin weight capacity for those "unplanned" RV mods, and fewer constraints when shopping for a new RV. I have far more confidence when towing than I had with the 2500.
The only problem I have come across with the dually is when driving (without the RV) in snow or on ice since the outer wheels cut a new path thru the snow and the rear end weight is distributed over double the tire footprint.
That said, I will always tow with a dually.
A few sand bags will cure that problem... When I lived in Colorado I kept a few bags in the bed all winter...
__________________
2015 Ford F350 DRW 6.7 Diesel XL
2020 Avalanche 313 RS
Javi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2017, 05:45 AM   #8
bsmith0404
Senior Member
 
bsmith0404's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Las Cruces
Posts: 4,666
went from a 2500 to a 3500 DRW Duramax and will never look back. Hands down best towing decision I ever made. If you look around, you can find nice used DRW trucks out there. Some dealerships have trouble moving them, especially in the bigger cities. When I transported, I traveled through pretty severe winter weather on a regular basis and was glad to have the additional stability of the dually. I also have 4x4 which does help, but I found it to be more helpful in the sands of the SW than the snow of the MW.
__________________

Brent
2013 Alpine 3500RE
2019 Silverado 2500HD Duramax
U.S. Air Force Retired (25 yrs)
bsmith0404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2017, 07:37 PM   #9
denverpilot
Senior Member
 
denverpilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 487
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javi View Post
A few sand bags will cure that problem... When I lived in Colorado I kept a few bags in the bed all winter...


I wouldn't say "cure". Make a little better maybe.

I get to compare the Dodge dually to the GMC Yukon 4x4 and a Subaru Outback and a Ford F-150, since they're all in my ragtag fleet of vehicles here... and the Subaru kicks all of them in the back side until the snow reaches its front bumper. Then it's a toss up between the Yukon and the F-150. The dually is just god-awful in snow.

And it makes sense. Half the weight on each contact point in the back. It'll slide out the rear end in a heartbeat. Rightly so. Physics.

But for towing heavy there's no better. Barely even know the giant trailer is back there, even in pretty sporty winds.
__________________
Pilot for fun, Computer geek for a living, and happy 5er owner who wants more time to go play in the camper!
denverpilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2017, 08:51 PM   #10
gearhead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Liberty, Texas
Posts: 4,864
Our Montana High Country is 12,500 GVW. Anything more and I would want a dually. I'm guessing you'll have around 3500# pin weight, plus the weight of the hitch and everything else.
What's the lengths on these Montana's? Close to 40'?
__________________
2018 Ram 3500 Laramie CC DRW LWB 4X4 Cummins Aisin 3.73
Reese Goosebox 20K
2018 Heartland Landmark 365 Oshkosh
2008 Bigfoot 25C9.4 LB Cabover
gearhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2017, 04:18 AM   #11
bagged123
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: The NW Hills of CT
Posts: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearhead View Post
Our Montana High Country is 12,500 GVW. Anything more and I would want a dually. I'm guessing you'll have around 3500# pin weight, plus the weight of the hitch and everything else.
What's the lengths on these Montana's? Close to 40'?

yeah, they're around 40' overall. After looking at the numbers, payloads, etc. I'm getting a dually,
__________________
Mike
2016 Chevy 3500 CC Dually Duramx LTZ (aka: BigBootyJudy)
2013 PT Tracer 3200 BHT
bagged123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2017, 08:42 AM   #12
Dave-Gray
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Vandenberg AFB, CA
Posts: 47
If I had known then what I know now, I would have kept my 2500. There is no significant difference in the powertrain between the 2500 and 3500. Both have a respectable 3.73 gear ratio. Therefore, their towing ability is much the same. As most should be concerned with, SRW trucks lacks the payload capacity to handle many 5th wheel trailers.

You need to look at the cost of how much a trade-in will cost you. For me, it cost me an $15K to trade up to the 3500 dually. I could have saved about $5K if I kept my 2500 and purchased an Automated Safety Hitch System. If you really want to stay with an SRW, I believe this option is viable and you can keep the truck you have. Although, a 4X4 is recommended.
__________________
Dave Gray

08 Dodge Ram 3500 4X4, Dually, 6.7L Diesel, K&N cold air intake system, B&W Gooseneck with 5th Wheel Companion, Firestone Air Bags
SOB: 09 Toy Hauler with Trail Air Tri Glide Air Ride Pin Box.
Dave-Gray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2017, 09:47 AM   #13
roadglide
Senior Member
 
roadglide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: nm
Posts: 1,833
I came real close to 2015 ext cab 1 ton chevy low mileage and hours. Test driving the 1 ton was different because of the higher pay load wit the 18 inch tires. I sold my 20s with pay load of 3100 lbs and bought 18 inch tires and rims with 3600 lbs pay load each. I can say tires is the biggest factor between the 3/4 and 1 ton chevys. Personally I would wait for the 17 1 tons. The new chevys have been redesign to mach the torque and HP.
__________________
2018 1 ton 4x4 c.c standard bed GMC Denali
Anderson ultimate hitch
2015 311 Impact Fusion toy hauler
2018 Milwaukee 8 FLRTU roadglide glide ultra
2018 800 Z force spot BUGGY.
500 watts of solar enough power for boon docking.
roadglide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2017, 09:54 AM   #14
bagged123
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: The NW Hills of CT
Posts: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadglide View Post
I came real close to 2015 ext cab 1 ton chevy low mileage and hours. Test driving the 1 ton was different because of the higher pay load wit the 18 inch tires. I sold my 20s with pay load of 3100 lbs and bought 18 inch tires and rims with 3600 lbs pay load each. I can say tires is the biggest factor between the 3/4 and 1 ton chevys. Personally I would wait for the 17 1 tons. The new chevys have been redesign to mach the torque and HP.

I just came back from the dealer looking at a '17 Chevy 3500 CC, 72k is a little more then what I want to pay for a new truck right now. For that price I'll buy a used KW and convert the fifth wheel over to tow the 5'er and still have money for whiskey at the CG. lol
__________________
Mike
2016 Chevy 3500 CC Dually Duramx LTZ (aka: BigBootyJudy)
2013 PT Tracer 3200 BHT
bagged123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2017, 09:55 AM   #15
bagged123
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: The NW Hills of CT
Posts: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave-Gray View Post
If I had known then what I know now, I would have kept my 2500. There is no significant difference in the powertrain between the 2500 and 3500. Both have a respectable 3.73 gear ratio. Therefore, their towing ability is much the same. As most should be concerned with, SRW trucks lacks the payload capacity to handle many 5th wheel trailers.

You need to look at the cost of how much a trade-in will cost you. For me, it cost me an $15K to trade up to the 3500 dually. I could have saved about $5K if I kept my 2500 and purchased an Automated Safety Hitch System. If you really want to stay with an SRW, I believe this option is viable and you can keep the truck you have. Although, a 4X4 is recommended.
I've seen these online, but not in person yet. However, I think I'd rather just get the truck
__________________
Mike
2016 Chevy 3500 CC Dually Duramx LTZ (aka: BigBootyJudy)
2013 PT Tracer 3200 BHT
bagged123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2017, 01:28 PM   #16
bagged123
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: The NW Hills of CT
Posts: 87
so, I've found a '15 dually Dbl Cab duramax long bed for a bargain and a half, will it be a difference in towing a 5'er between the CC and the DBL due to the wheel base is a tad shorter?
__________________
Mike
2016 Chevy 3500 CC Dually Duramx LTZ (aka: BigBootyJudy)
2013 PT Tracer 3200 BHT
bagged123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2017, 03:11 PM   #17
Lic0rice
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Husk, NC & Steinhatchee, FL
Posts: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by bagged123 View Post
I just came back from the dealer looking at a '17 Chevy 3500 CC, 72k is a little more then what I want to pay for a new truck right now. For that price I'll buy a used KW and convert the fifth wheel over to tow the 5'er and still have money for whiskey at the CG. lol
$72k....What?? A '17 GMC Denali (the top trim package) DRW, Duramax, 4x4 MSRP around $57k. It's easy to stay in the $40s if you don't need the Denali trim package. The Sierra is in the low $40s MSRP.
__________________
____________________________________________
2006 Keystone Montana 3400RL, Carlisle Radial Trail HD
2016 GMC 3500HD 4x4 LB CC Duramax/Allison
B&W Turnoverball + B&W Companion Hitch
1998 Key West 1720
Lic0rice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2017, 05:38 PM   #18
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 25,251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lic0rice View Post
$72k....What?? A '17 GMC Denali (the top trim package) DRW, Duramax, 4x4 MSRP around $57k. It's easy to stay in the $40s if you don't need the Denali trim package. The Sierra is in the low $40s MSRP.
If you can find 2017 Chevrolet dually diesels for $40k,, please share the "secret source" for the rest of us. All I can find online are north of $55k, most are closer or above $60k. I just did a quick "build and price" on a 2017 crew cab dually 4x4 LT version with minimal equipment, cloth seats and standard radio. It listed at $61,280 after all the available discounts and incentives. A Denali is $10-15k more than that price.

Here's the summary: http://www.chevrolet.com/silverado-3....html#/summary
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2017, 07:16 PM   #19
bagged123
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: The NW Hills of CT
Posts: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lic0rice View Post
$72k....What?? A '17 GMC Denali (the top trim package) DRW, Duramax, 4x4 MSRP around $57k. It's easy to stay in the $40s if you don't need the Denali trim package. The Sierra is in the low $40s MSRP.

Where? Where I am a Denali Dully is going for 72-74k a SRW 3500 Denali is going for 68-70, a SLT DRW is going for 65k, and then one, if you can get a DRW Denali for 57 please share, cause I'll go buy it now
__________________
Mike
2016 Chevy 3500 CC Dually Duramx LTZ (aka: BigBootyJudy)
2013 PT Tracer 3200 BHT
bagged123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2017, 05:22 AM   #20
bsmith0404
Senior Member
 
bsmith0404's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Las Cruces
Posts: 4,666
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lic0rice View Post
$72k....What?? A '17 GMC Denali (the top trim package) DRW, Duramax, 4x4 MSRP around $57k. It's easy to stay in the $40s if you don't need the Denali trim package. The Sierra is in the low $40s MSRP.
Are you sure it's a Duramax? That sounds like a gas truck price. You add the $7k+ for the dmax to that price and that sounds more in the correct price range. My 2011 3500 Duramax LTZ, CC Dually listed at $65, 6 yrs ago, I'm confident they haven't gone down $9k in price.

Right now isn't the best time to buy a 2017, supplies on the lots aren't that great and it's no longer Dec when dealers are trying to move trucks to meet year end sales incentives. My personal opinion, the best deal you will find is on a truck that is 2-3 years old with 30-50k miles. Personally, I don't like buying used because I know how much profit is in used cars vs new, but when supplies are short on a new, redesigned truck that some people are chomping at the bit to get their hands on, it's hard to get a great deal on new as well. Keep your eye out, there'll be guys trading in their 14-15's for a 17. Also, don't be afraid to buy private, they're still under warranty.
__________________

Brent
2013 Alpine 3500RE
2019 Silverado 2500HD Duramax
U.S. Air Force Retired (25 yrs)
bsmith0404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RVģ is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.