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Old 10-07-2016, 03:14 AM   #21
Laredo291OH
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Re: Most important options for new 350 or 3500

I believe in the GM lineup you can only get the 4.10 with a gasser and you can only get the 3.73 in the diesel, no choices either way.
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Old 10-07-2016, 03:58 AM   #22
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Re: Most important options for new 350 or 3500

With the power these new diesels are putting out, there really isn't an RV that is going to cause them problems on pretty much any road we can take them down. The main consideration is the max torque point. That is where your most capable power is delivered as well as where your best fuel mileage is achieved. So the combination of transmission final gear and rear end gear has to achieve that at an acceptable highway speed. The GM 3:73 gear puts the Dmax at that point right around 65 mph. Which is also considered a safe towing speed by many people, coincidence? Using the 6 spd Allison gearing, they can achieve plenty of take off power to get you rolling out of a hole. It's the combination of the two that creates a useable package. Don't put too much thought into what the rear gear ratio is these days. It's not as significant as it was in the old days with gas engines and 3 or 4 spd transmissions.
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Old 10-07-2016, 09:40 AM   #23
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Re: Most important options for new 350 or 3500

I agree.

I have 3.55 gears with a six speed manual. The tire size equation yields a comparable 3.42 rear. My engine is putting out more torque than stock (~650#). If 6th (OD) is too high a gearing, I just shift to 5th (1:1) and the truck does well. I'm my own tow/haul mode.

Starting out isn't an issue with the "granny" 1st gear. Unloaded, 2nd is 1st and 6th yields a nice, fuel mileage enhancing RPM.
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Old 10-07-2016, 03:46 PM   #24
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Re: Most important options for new 350 or 3500

Although you'll have to order it I'd get the up fitter switches. It allows you to setup options that you can control from the cab. One of the switches I was planing to add to a RAM 3500 is to flash the running lights on the trailer. There are plenty of other things one can control using the switches.

No question I'd get the airbag option, DRW and the in bed tow prep. Leaning toward the 3.73 with the ASIN trains.
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Old 10-07-2016, 03:54 PM   #25
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Re: Most important options for new 350 or 3500

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Originally Posted by Timon View Post
Although you'll have to order it I'd get the up fitter switches. It allows you to setup options that you can control from the cab. One of the switches I was planing to add to a RAM 3500 is to flash the running lights on the trailer. There are plenty of other things one can control using the switches.

No question I'd get the airbag option, DRW and the in bed tow prep. Leaning toward the 3.73 with the ASIN trains.
A lot of the guys I know with Ram trucks also agree with adding air bags. They talked about the harsh ride without them. I can only guess that the Ram trucks run rougher since my Silverado rides about the same loaded and unloaded and it's not at all harsh. With a Dodge automatic the Aisin trans is the only way to go. Their other autos have proven to be a weak link.
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Old 10-09-2016, 03:33 PM   #26
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Re: Most important options for new 350 or 3500

Thank you all for your continued input on this question. I value all responses from those of you with experience with larger fifth wheel trailers. I have met with a salesman at a Ford dealer. He is working to get the information I need on available units in the area and waiting for a unit to come in to test drive for a day. He suggested that I take it into the nearby mountains during my test drive. Will also do this with other dealers as I have time in the coming weeks. Will also do more research on the various fifth wheel hitches.
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Old 10-09-2016, 04:29 PM   #27
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Re: Most important options for new 350 or 3500

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Originally Posted by bsmith0404 View Post
A lot of the guys I know with Ram trucks also agree with adding air bags. They talked about the harsh ride without them. I can only guess that the Ram trucks run rougher since my Silverado rides about the same loaded and unloaded and it's not at all harsh. With a Dodge automatic the Aisin trans is the only way to go. Their other autos have proven to be a weak link.
I don't think he's talking about adding airbags, i believe he's saying if he was shopping for a RAM it would have the Rear Air Suspension Option on the truck from the factory. Updates coming for GM HD's in 2017, updated motor and tranny, the new Fords, RAM will be be last for updates. These new trucks from all three just keep getting more BA.
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Old 10-10-2016, 05:05 AM   #28
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Re: Most important options for new 350 or 3500

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Air bags - if you have no experience with and without them with the same truck/trailer combination then you have no idea what the difference is in total TV/unit stability as well as ride comfort. But adding them is an owner's prerogative. It is though a reasonably inexpensive way to help the TV manage the load
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timon View Post
Although you'll have to order it I'd get the up fitter switches. It allows you to setup options that you can control from the cab. One of the switches I was planing to add to a RAM 3500 is to flash the running lights on the trailer. There are plenty of other things one can control using the switches.

No question I'd get the airbag option, DRW and the in bed tow prep. Leaning toward the 3.73 with the ASIN trains.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kfxgreenie View Post
I don't think he's talking about adding airbags, i believe he's saying if he was shopping for a RAM it would have the Rear Air Suspension Option on the truck from the factory. Updates coming for GM HD's in 2017, updated motor and tranny, the new Fords, RAM will be be last for updates. These new trucks from all three just keep getting more BA.
You may be correct, I was just combining the airbag discussions and assumed it is what he was talking about.

I just saw the specs on the new dmax. It sounds like a beast, I just hope they found a way to put all of that power out and still maintain fuel mileage. Based on numbers of other transporters, Dodge and Ford had suffered when they upped the power, time will tell.

If you're looking seriously at Ford, you may want to look at the F450 over the 350, but check your local DMV drivers license laws. That's something to consider with the 350/3500 as well. In NM I can run a class E license which allows me to exceed 26,000 lbs GCWR while towing my personal RV without a CDL, other states will make you get a CDL.
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Old 10-10-2016, 09:22 AM   #29
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Re: Most important options for new 350 or 3500

You just brought up a very good point about weight that I had not thought about yet looking at towing a fifth wheel with super duty truck. I need to look at that for the state of South Carolina. They have different rules then in Ohio where we moved from a year ago. When we were looking at some class A motorhomes earlier this year I was asking that question. At that time we understood from the salesman that the Tiffin gas chassis class A we were looking at was below the weight that would require a CDL license. The combination of truck and trailer we are looking at now may go above that number.
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Old 10-10-2016, 10:27 AM   #30
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Re: Most important options for new 350 or 3500

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Originally Posted by jafud1 View Post
You just brought up a very good point about weight that I had not thought about yet looking at towing a fifth wheel with super duty truck. I need to look at that for the state of South Carolina. They have different rules then in Ohio where we moved from a year ago. When we were looking at some class A motorhomes earlier this year I was asking that question. At that time we understood from the salesman that the Tiffin gas chassis class A we were looking at was below the weight that would require a CDL license. The combination of truck and trailer we are looking at now may go above that number.
In addition to looking at the driver's license classifications, don't forget to check your insurance requirements. In many states, CDL designated vehicle requirements also carry commercial insurance requirements. You might well find that your $300 a year insurance rates suddenly become $3000 rates with a "commercial vehicle" designation on a vehicle that carries over a 26000 pound rating.
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Old 10-10-2016, 12:17 PM   #31
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Re: Most important options for new 350 or 3500

In South Carolina it looks like any motorhome over 26,000 pounds GVW requires a class E license (non-commercial for RV). Any motorhome or truck with towed vehicle that exceeds 26,000 GVW requires class F license (Non-commercial for RV). Written test and road test required for either of these licenses.
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Old 10-10-2016, 12:33 PM   #32
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Re: Most important options for new 350 or 3500

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In South Carolina it looks like any motorhome over 26,000 pounds GVW requires a class E license (non-commercial for RV). Any motorhome or truck with towed vehicle that exceeds 26,000 GVW requires class F license (Non-commercial for RV). Written test and road test required for either of these licenses.
The driver's license category (non-commercial class E or class F) may not be considered a "commercial license" because of the "RV designation". Many insurance companies "lump all vehicles in a weight group" regardless of "RV" designation or "Commercial" designation. So, even though the driver's license department calls it a "non-commercial" license, the insurance commission may still put the vehicle in the commercial class for premiums. I'd suggest you call your insurance agent if you're looking at vehicles above the 26K rating to be sure you can get insurance at a "private use" rate. We've got some members on the forum that are paying "very high insurance premiums" and "commercial registration rates" on vehicles that they can legally drive with a "non-commercial license".....
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Old 10-10-2016, 12:43 PM   #33
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Re: Most important options for new 350 or 3500

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In addition to looking at the driver's license classifications, don't forget to check your insurance requirements. In many states, CDL designated vehicle requirements also carry commercial insurance requirements. You might well find that your $300 a year insurance rates suddenly become $3000 rates with a "commercial vehicle" designation on a vehicle that carries over a 26000 pound rating.
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Originally Posted by jafud1 View Post
In South Carolina it looks like any motorhome over 26,000 pounds GVW requires a class E license (non-commercial for RV). Any motorhome or truck with towed vehicle that exceeds 26,000 GVW requires class F license (Non-commercial for RV). Written test and road test required for either of these licenses.
Why is this being brought up? NO state in the continental US requires anyone to to get a true Commerical Drivers License to drive an RV. There are a few that requires a non-commercial license but not a CDL.

Note I didn't include DC since who really cares about DC. I bet if one calls the DMV in DC there is something that exempts RV but then it's DC so all bets are off.
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Old 10-10-2016, 01:30 PM   #34
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Re: Most important options for new 350 or 3500

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Why is this being brought up? NO state in the continental US requires anyone to to get a true Commerical Drivers License to drive an RV. There are a few that requires a non-commercial license but not a CDL.

Note I didn't include DC since who really cares about DC. I bet if one calls the DMV in DC there is something that exempts RV but then it's DC so all bets are off.
The reason I brought it up is because there are "some states" that DO require a "driver's license endorsement" to operate a vehicle with a GVW greater than 26,000 pounds (even if it is an RV) and some that require a license endorsement for double towing, even if it is below 26,000 pounds. Additionally, in SOME states, insurance premiums are significantly higher for vehicles rated higher than 26,000 pounds. The ONLY reason I mentioned it was to suggest that the OP (who is apparently considering a new vehicle) might want to check with his state to see if an endorsement (or "non-commercial license') is required "BEFORE" he buys the vehicle and then finds out that his insurance is double what it would have been on a "lower rated vehicle" and/or before he gets a ticket for driving without the appropriate license...

If you're not in one of those "unfamiliar states" then no problem for you, but not all of us are "fortunate enough" to live in a state where "anything goes" as long as nobody is watching......
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Old 10-10-2016, 04:51 PM   #35
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Re: Most important options for new 350 or 3500

I understand what you're saying/thinking, but I think the insurance only applies if you're vehicle is registered as a commercial (26.001 or more). Most states will only register trucks based on GVWR which is well below commercial status. The type of DL you have should not affect the insurance rates of the vehicle. So the secret is to only register your vehicle at 26,000 lbs or less.
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Old 10-10-2016, 05:16 PM   #36
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Re: Most important options for new 350 or 3500

Please read post #4 and post #9 here: http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/sho...hlight=license

Many people only see "rules that apply to their state" and forget that what applies to them can be entirely different just "one town away" .....
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Old 10-10-2016, 06:02 PM   #37
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Re: Most important options for new 350 or 3500

Interesting. I know as transporters they wanted us to be registered at 26k to avoid the federal fuel tax regulations. I met a few from CA with 350/3500 duallies that did not have commercial plates. If they had been registered as a commercial vehicle they would have to have an IFTA license since they were transporting RVs not for personal use. I haven't looked into the CA laws or the laws of every state out there, but it does make me wonder how some with a dually being used commercially can get away with a 26k plate and how others using them for personal are having to register commercially....makes me think it is how/what is said at the DMV.

*Edit: I just read a bunch of stuff on the CA laws and I don't see why a 350/3500 would need to be registered as a commercial vehicle. Pickups with an unladen weight less than 8,000 lbs are not affected by commercial vehicle registration act. An F450 may exceed the 8,000 lb since the 350s are getting close to that. As for the license, it depends on the GVWR of the trailer if a class C or non commercial class A is required. I've seen it happen more than once where the people at the DMV don't know all the rules/laws or the owner doesn't do their homework and doesn't do a good job of explaining their situation. It's also possible that I may have missed something since I only spent about 20 minutes looking up the info.

This is just for discussion purposes though since the OP is from SC, but it's good discussion to show that everyone needs to do their homework for their state to make sure they have the correct license and the correct vehicle registration. We've had these discussions in other threads as well, but it's always good to revisit things like this for new members.
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Old 10-10-2016, 07:35 PM   #38
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Re: Most important options for new 350 or 3500

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Interesting... Pickups with an unladen weight less than 8,000 lbs are not affected by commercial vehicle registration act. An F450 may exceed the 8,000 lb since the 350s are getting close to that.
FYI, when using the Ford website data, http://www.ford.com/trucks/superduty...ions/exterior/ the 2017 F250 long wheelbase CC diesel "BASE" curb weight is listed at 7494, the F350 is listed at 7734 and the F350 DRW is listed at 8097. With XLT trim, all F350's will weigh over 8000 pounds and in Lariat or higher trim, all F-250's will be at/over that 8000 pound mark. Add running boards, camera/electronic packages, spray in bed liner, underbed fifth wheel hitch options and nearly every 2017 Superduty LB CC will weigh over 8000 pounds.

Curb weight is one of Ford's biggest disadvantages and the reason for the shift to aluminum body panels. With a specific GVW restriction (10K for 3/4 ton), that ceiling makes payload significantly less than 2000 pounds on many F250 trucks and significantly cuts into the payload because of the 11.5K GVW listing on F350 SRW models in trim packages more "luxurious" than the XL or XLT level.
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Old 10-11-2016, 07:09 PM   #39
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Re: Most important options for new 350 or 3500

Don't know what I was thinking, my 3500 is over 8k as well. Brain fart and flash back to my 2500 days. I will say that it was interesting reading through the regulations, I'm not sure if they could make it any more complicated and confusing. Lesson to learn here is to do your homework for your state and make sure you understand the law before you make the purchase. At least then it is an educated purchase and you know what you're getting into.
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Old 10-15-2016, 09:07 AM   #40
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Re: Most important options for new 350 or 3500

This great to read. IMHO. It took me over 2 yrs to find the truck that will do the job. In my quest only Numbers counted. NON CAT
The truck 2013 F350 CC Lariat 8'bed 6.7 3.73 Wt7930 (St Reg)
FAWR-5940
RAWR-9650
GVWR-14,000lbs
GCWR-30,500
Payload 5300lbs

Camper is 2017 Avalanche365MB GCWR-15,500
PW 2800 (around)
HW180lbs
Fuel Wt ? (35 Gal)
Pass.450

With this said I don't have much left for wood etc in bed of truck.
Safety was my #1 issue.
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