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Old 09-09-2016, 12:50 PM   #1
Covered Wagon
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Chevy 2500hd

Does anyone here pull a 5th wheel with a Chevy 2500hd duramax ? If so what truck do you have and what weight do you pull ?

Thanks
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Old 09-09-2016, 02:33 PM   #2
roadglide
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Whats on your mind ? Nobody likes but I bet over half on any forum you visit are overweight on the door sticker.
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Old 09-09-2016, 02:59 PM   #3
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Covered Wagon, first of all, welcome to the forum. Lots of good info here. Secondly, give us the information on your truck from the yellow sticker inside the door jamb. If you have a particular trailer in mind that would help. Roadglide is on the money when he says the odds of people pulling overweight. Let's hear back from you......
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Old 09-09-2016, 03:16 PM   #4
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Roadglide, if you look for a half ton 5th wheel you should be able to tow it with your 3/4 ton. When you get us your specs and what you are interested in everyone will be more than happy to provide their opinions. Have fun shopping.
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Old 09-09-2016, 03:23 PM   #5
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We haven't pulled the trigger yet (next spring). I've spected out a 2500 that has the greatest towing and GVWR capacity. It matches the rv with only a couple of hundred pounds to spare on the pin (I've figured we might add 1500 to 2000 pounds of stuff (wife packs heavy). The truck has a tow rating that can more than handle the rv even at it's rated maximum The GCWR is also much greater than the weight of the truck and rv. As far as power, the power train is the same as is used in the 3500 dw. The 2500hd has a 6200 pound rear axle and suspension and the combination will be within that limit. I will be installing AirLift, but I do know that that does not increase the load limits. I saw a rv safety video the other day and they stated that 51% of 5th wheels on the road are over loaded. Keystone shows the pin weight at 19% of the total. If we can keep the front loading down we should be fine, near the maximum. Unfortunately this rv only has a front storage. I'm hoping that Chevrolet will increase the GVWR for 2017 as they need to try and play catch up with Ford and Dodge.
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Old 09-09-2016, 03:30 PM   #6
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Thanks for the welcome folks.

Truck will be a 2017 Chevy 2500hd duramax double cab 6.5 foot box 2wd. So no yellow sticker. The numbers were pulled from the 2016 spec sheets.
RV will be 2017 Montana 3000re

Dave
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Old 09-09-2016, 04:44 PM   #7
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Hi Covered,

If you are going to buy a new truck, why not just go for a 3500, but single rear wheel (SRW). Thats what I did, it increased the payload by over 1000 lbs. The cost for the 3500 SRW is barely anything when compared to the overall price.
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Old 09-09-2016, 04:49 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Covered Wagon View Post
Thanks for the welcome folks.

Truck will be a 2017 Chevy 2500hd duramax double cab 6.5 foot box 2wd. So no yellow sticker. The numbers were pulled from the 2016 spec sheets.
RV will be 2017 Montana 3000re

Dave
The truck builders spec sheets are like those of trailer builders ~ light! The truck spec sheets are based on the minimum J2807 specs permit. Many options you want are not in those weights and your yellow sticker may be a shock unless you order a relatively bare vehicle. The same with camper builders. My pin was 310# heavier than published when picked up from the dealer prior to adding slide toppers, 2nd AC, 2nd battery or anything else, not even a can of soda. You will run out of payload before anything else. For just a few hundred more you can often get a 1 ton and have all numbers in spec with the exception of the heaviest 5ers or THs. I bought a 2016 F250 and traded 6 months and 8 days later for an F350 ~~~ all in the payload.
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Old 09-09-2016, 04:54 PM   #9
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GM hasn't changed the specs on the 2500HD in quite a while. I pulled our Alpine 3500RE with my 2011 duramax 2500 once and traded it in for a 3500 DRW. As you already stated, same power train, so that wasn't the issue. It was the tail wagging the dog effect of too much pin weight and too much trailer on a SRW truck. I wouldn't do the combo you're looking at, many do, but it's not safe. I towed my previous 5er with the same truck, it weighed in fully loaded at about 12,800 (GVWR 13,500). That was about max for the truck, towed very comfortably and didn't have any issues. The added 2,000 lbs of the Alpine and 2,500 lbs of the Montana you are looking at is the straw that breaks the camels back for a 3/4 ton truck. Look for something that is about a ton lighter if you want the 2500.
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Old 09-09-2016, 07:03 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Covered Wagon View Post
We haven't pulled the trigger yet (next spring). I've spected out a 2500 that has the greatest towing and GVWR capacity. It matches the rv with only a couple of hundred pounds to spare on the pin (I've figured we might add 1500 to 2000 pounds of stuff (wife packs heavy). The truck has a tow rating that can more than handle the rv even at it's rated maximum The GCWR is also much greater than the weight of the truck and rv. As far as power, the power train is the same as is used in the 3500 dw. The 2500hd has a 6200 pound rear axle and suspension and the combination will be within that limit. I will be installing AirLift, but I do know that that does not increase the load limits. I saw a rv safety video the other day and they stated that 51% of 5th wheels on the road are over loaded. Keystone shows the pin weight at 19% of the total. If we can keep the front loading down we should be fine, near the maximum. Unfortunately this rv only has a front storage. I'm hoping that Chevrolet will increase the GVWR for 2017 as they need to try and play catch up with Ford and Dodge.
If you get the 2500 make sure it doesn't have 20 inch tires your limited load index of 3100 lbs . With the 18 inch rims you can get tires with index starting at 3550 lbs which is standard on the 3500. May be its changed for 2017 we wont know to Chevy post the specs other then the ram air intake.
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Old 09-10-2016, 03:05 AM   #11
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Thanks road glide. The 18 inch wheels/tires were in the planned build.

Seems like everyone thinks this is a really bad combination. Unfortunately for us the one ton does not work for several reasons, so I guess I'll rethink the whole mess.
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Old 09-10-2016, 04:21 AM   #12
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It mostly depends on the options you have. I have a 15 F250 and pull a Montana. However it a older unit with a max weight of 13,000 lbs. We just went on a 3 month trip across the US without any tail wagging. I could however tell if it was windy but even semi drivers can tell if its windy. I was very confident pulling with my truck. I also have the air lift bags on my truck and love them. They dont however increase the load carrying capacity of the truck. That is limited with the axles in the truck from the factory. When we went on our trip we had to pack a lot of stuff. I kept in mind how much things weighed. I took stuff out of the storage so we could add stuff we really needed for the trip. Don't pack stuff you will maybe use. I like to keep camping simple.
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Old 09-10-2016, 04:49 AM   #13
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Thanks old timer
I'm an old timer too. I drove a semi years ago so I well understand the winds. I actually had times in KS, when I took a break and waited for the winds to take a break. Sounds like my planning was very similar to yours.
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Old 09-10-2016, 06:20 AM   #14
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I have a 2500HD and I regularly pull 16730 with it. Am I close to my max sticker number? YES! Do I drive like a fool? NO! How do I know how much I am pulling? SEVERAL TRIPS TO THE SCALE-laden and un-laden. BTW, I have factory 20 inch wheels and they do not change my sticker ratings...
The only real option that would change my stated capacity would be the 4WD option-a reduction of 3K pounds. Since I don't pull my trailer through the mud, I have a 2WD truck.

To the original poster: Do a little research. Every year General Motors publishes a trailering guide for both Chevrolet and GMC vehicles. It tells you almost everything you need to know. The only thing that I have had to look elsewhere for is the rear axle rating (dealer and the internet had the answer pretty quick). Educate yourself. You can do almost anything. The real question is if you can do so legally or safely. On a forum such as this, there are alarmists who will tell you everything you do is foolish and dangerous and then there are knuckleheads who will validate any and every notion regardless of it's practicality. You are ultimately responsible for what you do and the risks you take.

Welcome! Good luck! Getting an RV is one of the best things my wife and I have done. I hope your experience is just as rewarding! My participation here is mostly for self education - but believe me, I check everything by doing my own research from several sources.
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Old 09-10-2016, 06:41 AM   #15
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Thanks for the imput MBD.
I started with GMs trailering guide/info, then went to my dealer and specked things out with him. We agree that I will be using the truck to the max which is what he said it's made for. I also spected a 2wd for the same reason as you. I've also been working with the rv dealer and using the yellow sticker numbers from actual RVs. Fortunately for us there are few option available on the unit we are looking at so there won't be any/much weight creep. I really appreciate hearing from someone who's been there and done that (BTDT).
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Old 09-10-2016, 11:16 AM   #16
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Go get a a 3500, no '16 or newer 2500 is towing a Montana, just from the payload on the trucks themselves. The Montana are big girls and have a heavy pin, even dry. Just go big from the start with your truck
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Old 09-10-2016, 12:29 PM   #17
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Looking at the Montana 3000RE specs, the empty pin weight is 2300. Add propane, a couple of batteries and you're up to about 2450. The washer/dryer 'built in space" in in the front closet, so option for a second A/C in the bedroom and the washer/dryer and you're going to be pushing 3000 pounds of pin weight with the "empty" trailer. Add clothes, camping/travelling equipment, food and the necessary tools, etc to the trailer and you're going to be pushing well above that 3000 pounds of pin weight.

We haven't even talked about the cargo/hitch weight in the truck. Any fifth wheel hitch you buy will add 150 pounds or so, get a sliding hitch (you've heard the short bed horror stories) and you're adding another 100 pounds to the mix and still don't have an ice chest or family in the truck yet....

Will a 250/2500 tow the trailer? Heck yes, will it keep you from getting a ticket if you get stopped for a safety check? you be the judge..... You're going to be "over your GVW and likely at or possibly over your RAWR when "loaded for travel".....

I tow with a 2015 F250 diesel, payload is rated at 2000 pounds, I tow a Cougar XLite 27RKS with an "advertised pin weight" of 1230 pounds. When loaded with a Curt 16K non-sliding hitch (125 lbs) and gear for an "extended trip" I'm at my GVW and the trailer pin weight is pushing 1500-1700 pounds. The truck "pulls" the trailer with absolute ease, heck I could (and do) add another 2500 pounds of boat behind the trailer and it still doesn't break a sweat. But, if I should happen to get stopped for a "courtesy safety check", I'm going to be "sweating profusely". With full camping gear, I'm pushing my GVW "right to the limit".... If I had another 1000 pounds of empty pin weight, I'd be significantly over GVW as you'll find your truck will be given that trailer and a 3/4 ton tow vehicle.
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Old 09-10-2016, 01:43 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MBD View Post
I have a 2500HD and I regularly pull 16730 with it. Am I close to my max sticker number? YES! Do I drive like a fool? NO! How do I know how much I am pulling? SEVERAL TRIPS TO THE SCALE-laden and un-laden. BTW, I have factory 20 inch wheels and they do not change my sticker ratings...
The only real option that would change my stated capacity would be the 4WD option-a reduction of 3K pounds. Since I don't pull my trailer through the mud, I have a 2WD truck.

To the original poster: Do a little research. Every year General Motors publishes a trailering guide for both Chevrolet and GMC vehicles. It tells you almost everything you need to know. The only thing that I have had to look elsewhere for is the rear axle rating (dealer and the internet had the answer pretty quick). Educate yourself. You can do almost anything. The real question is if you can do so legally or safely. On a forum such as this, there are alarmists who will tell you everything you do is foolish and dangerous and then there are knuckleheads who will validate any and every notion regardless of it's practicality. You are ultimately responsible for what you do and the risks you take.

Welcome! Good luck! Getting an RV is one of the best things my wife and I have done. I hope your experience is just as rewarding! My participation here is mostly for self education - but believe me, I check everything by doing my own research from several sources.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Covered Wagon View Post
Thanks for the imput MBD.
I started with GMs trailering guide/info, then went to my dealer and specked things out with him. We agree that I will be using the truck to the max which is what he said it's made for. I also spected a 2wd for the same reason as you. I've also been working with the rv dealer and using the yellow sticker numbers from actual RVs. Fortunately for us there are few option available on the unit we are looking at so there won't be any/much weight creep. I really appreciate hearing from someone who's been there and done that (BTDT).
I'm not here to get into a debate, but as someone who has also been there and done that, and has pulled countless trailers with 2500s, both gas and diesel, I can tell you that the pin weight of these trailers is beyond what the 2500 should be dealing with. Yes the Duramax/Allison combo is capable, but the payload isn't. They always say, you don't know what you don't know. When I moved up to the new Alpine I thought I would be fine with my 2500, but I felt the difference immediately and knew. When I got the dually, I really knew what the difference was. Each person will do what they want, but trust me when I say I've done it and wouldn't do it again now that I know what I didn't know.

As for the towing guide telling you everything you need to know, not quite. It tells you what you can "safely tow" with each truck platform. It also states that kingpin weight should not cause the vehicle to exceed GVWR or GAWR, but does not give any information on payload, that is on the door sticker. It states that the MAX kingpin weight for a 2500 cannot exceed 3k lbs. That would be on a standard cab, 2wd, WT model. Higher trim levels and larger cab options will reduce the max pin weight. So looking at the trailering guide and saying you can tow 16,800 lbs with a 2wd duramax, crew cab is not entirely accurate. An accurate statement is that you can tow a 16,800 lb trailer with a 2wd duramax crew cab as long as the pin weight does not cause you to exceed GVWR and GAWR, which is not likely to happen. A realistic max pin weight is probably closer to 2500 lbs which will put you into the 13k lb trailer range.
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Old 09-10-2016, 02:05 PM   #19
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If your ever going to pull a 5th wheel over 10,000 pounds I wouldn't even think about anything under a one ton DRW. I've done the numbers on a Ram 3500 MCSB 6.7l ASIN transmission 4X4 DRW with both a 3.73 and 4.1 ratio with a 1,500 pound payload consisting of two adults, two large dogs, hitch and misc other payload which makes the GVW around 10,000 points leaving 4,000 pounds for pin weight. Based on those numbers the max you can pull with either the 3.73 or 4.10 is 20,000 pounds. Anything more and you're going to be overloaded. Sure you have a lot more pulling power but you're limited by 14,400 GVWR which has to carry the truck, you and your family plus your pin weight.

If you start with the same rig with SRW you start with a GVWR of 11,500, if I remember correctly. That's only 1,500 pounds of pin weight which at 20% is a 7,500 pound rig. Even if you limit your payload to 1,000 you only get to 2,000 pounds of pin Which is a 10,000 pound rig. You can drop to 15% pin and get a little more but is it worth it?

Considering the small price difference between a three quarter ton to a one ton with the same engine configuration plus the even smaller difference between SRW to DRW why risk being overloaded and limiting your considerable investment.

Here is a link to my calculation for the above with a 4.1 ratio. Check it out for yourself then play with the numbers for your own configuration.
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Old 09-10-2016, 05:25 PM   #20
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Not sure where you getting that anything over 10,000 lbs needs a DRW. I have a 2016 Montana 3711FL and tow it with a Ford F350 SRW with a yellow payload sticker says it has 3744 payload. I within all my numbers including my GVWR and that from the CAT scales not a stubby pencil. Here are my numbers from the CAT scale put into towing planner.

http://towingplanner.com/ActualWeigh...&w2da=3480&a=2
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