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Old 07-18-2016, 04:12 PM   #1
mets721
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Balancing

I just bought Carlisle Tires for my 2016 Cougar 327RES 5th wheel. My buddy is going to mount them for me this Saturday. Should they be balanced? The originals don't appear to be balanced. I'm leaning on having him balance them for even wear, etc. Is there anything special to balancing trailer tires vs auto tires? I've read something about "lug centric" balancing for trailers, but I'm not sure what that means. My buddy works on cars a lot but hasn't had any experience doing RV's.
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Old 07-18-2016, 04:23 PM   #2
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Lug centric requires the wheel to be attached to the balancer with the lug bolts vs wheel centric uses the auto balancer wheel attachment.


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Old 07-18-2016, 04:43 PM   #3
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If you have aluminum wheels they are machined on center. Balancing them the same as a normal "car" wheel will get them close enough.

The brake drums are not balanced. Unless you balance the drums it won't be perfect anyway. I balanced my drums and found one of them 4.5oz out of balance.
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Old 07-18-2016, 08:34 PM   #4
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The Carlisle tire warranty mentions balancing but does not say anything about it being a qualifying or disqualifying factor. It does disqualify any form of balancing beads or substances.

http://www.carlstargroup.com/product...ay-non-highway
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Old 07-18-2016, 09:01 PM   #5
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With our aluminum wheels, I have had them balanced on normal equipment , centered on the wheel hub hole, and they are just fine. I think the steel wheels are the ones that need to be lug center balanced as the center hole is not perfectly centered.
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Old 07-19-2016, 05:46 AM   #6
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Balance them and use metal stems IMO.
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Old 07-19-2016, 09:13 AM   #7
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They should be balanced if you think they should.
I do, not everyone does.
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Old 07-20-2016, 02:41 PM   #8
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Quote:
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Balance them and use metal stems IMO.
2X

Found out the hard way about rubber valve stems! Not that I had a failure. I requested high pressure valve stems when I had the new tires installed and when I picked up my wheels they had "high pressure" rubber stems. A few weeks later while washing the trailer I noticed if I push the stem lightly to the side it would leak.
Wheels came back off and I had the Ford style metal stems installed.
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Old 11-10-2016, 02:05 PM   #9
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Re: Balancing

I just got new wheels and tires and went with a G rated tires this time. I have read that they are much better for the heavier 5th wheels. I recently had two blowouts in one trip with Goodyear Marathons. Not happy about that as they caused approximately $4300 damage. I am on this thread because I was wondering if I needed to balance my new set up? Its seems that it is personal preference a some peeps do and some peeps don't.. Any further suggestions and reasons are greatly appreciated. Thank you!!

Here is my new set up, waiting on two more wheels and tires but here is what I have so far.

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Old 11-10-2016, 02:41 PM   #10
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Re: Balancing

Smitty,

Here's my opinion (for what it's worth). An unbalanced tire/wheel will "hop" or "bounce" as it's being towed. Think back to when you had an unbalanced tire and a bad shock absorber on any vehicle. Very few of our RV's have shocks (except for a very few 'luxury" models). So, as we tow, especially without shocks, the need to balance wheels becomes even more necessary. Why? An unbalanced tire will "hop/skip/bounce" causing sidewall flex which causes heat to be generated in the tire carcass. Increased temperature causes the tire to "fatigue" faster leading to premature wear and "self destruction". So, to help prevent sidewall flex, higher operating temperatures and premature failure, spending a few dollars to protect a much larger expense of the new tires, at least to me, seems like a smart "pre-emptive investment".
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Old 11-10-2016, 03:35 PM   #11
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Re: Balancing

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
Smitty,

Here's my opinion (for what it's worth). An unbalanced tire/wheel will "hop" or "bounce" as it's being towed. Think back to when you had an unbalanced tire and a bad shock absorber on any vehicle. Very few of our RV's have shocks (except for a very few 'luxury" models). So, as we tow, especially without shocks, the need to balance wheels becomes even more necessary. Why? An unbalanced tire will "hop/skip/bounce" causing sidewall flex which causes heat to be generated in the tire carcass. Increased temperature causes the tire to "fatigue" faster leading to premature wear and "self destruction". So, to help prevent sidewall flex, higher operating temperatures and premature failure, spending a few dollars to protect a much larger expense of the new tires, at least to me, seems like a smart "pre-emptive investment".
Makes perfect sense to me, im curious why more people don't do it? I have also just recently read as I am still snooping around for info, the break drum should also be balanced or balancing the tires and wheels is waist.
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Old 11-10-2016, 05:22 PM   #12
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Re: Balancing

I have not ever had them balanced. I have not ever had aluminum wheels on a RV. Until this rv. When I get new tires soon. I am going to have them balanced. Already have full metal stems.
Here is a challenge for someone who has a gopro camera. Pull a RV without balanced tires a few miles on a highway with a camera in the trailer. Lets see what it looks like regarding bounce. Repeat same speeds, same road balanced tires. I think it will be smoother. I also believe TT and 5ers should have shocks just as cars for the same reason. Control of the bounce caused by the springs. It seems RV makers think it costs to much or it does not matter.
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Old 11-10-2016, 07:18 PM   #13
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Re: Balancing

Ok, I tow a 30' travel trailer that weighs about 8000 lbs, the Laredo 291TG. I have probably towed it about 20,000 miles in the last 6 years. The first 2 years were just as it was from the factory, the last 4 with the tires balanced and shocks added. I can't say that for the effort I went to put the shocks on the trailer that it was worth it. I can't really tell any difference in the tow and everything in the camper seems to ride the same. I don't think I would do the shocks again, might balance the tires again. The drums aren't that big of a diameter, wouldn't think those being out of balance would affect things near as much as the tires.
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Old 11-10-2016, 10:38 PM   #14
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Re: Balancing

Don't worry about the drums, but definitely balance the tires and install metal valve stems, too. The reason why has already been described.
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Old 11-11-2016, 06:03 AM   #15
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Re: Balancing

Given the large amount of balance weights added to my wheels when balanced, I feel the wheels must have been doing a lot of hopping prior to being balanced. So I recommend balancing.

As for shocks on the TT, what I am learning since I recently installed shocks on our TT is the following:
  • the angle of the shock is important
  • the shocks need to be attached to the equalizer side of the leaf springs where there is the most suspension motion
  • the rubber pucks at the mounts need to be preloaded enough to transfer the small movements to the shock (this made a noticeable difference for me, something worth checking)
  • our stiff TV suspensions do not allow much feedback from the TT since it is masked by the TV harshness
That is to say, for the shock to provide any benefit, it needs to cycle thru as much of the suspension motion as possible. An angled shock, mispositioned shocks and/or soft pucks do not transfer enough motion to the shock to allow it to be effective.

I second that the smaller diameter drums do not have as much of an affect as a balanced wheel because of the wheel/tires's larger diameter.
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Old 11-11-2016, 06:50 PM   #16
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Re: Balancing

When I have wheels/tires balanced I watch through a window or out on the driveway. If they have put a ton of weights on I have them bust the tire, rotate it, and try again. I watch that balance machine for the zeroes.
Anything that rotates and can be balanced, should be balanced...wheels/tires, lawn mower blades, 14,000RPM hydrogen compressors, yadda yadda yadda.
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Old 11-11-2016, 07:04 PM   #17
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Re: Balancing

When you get serious about balancing. Rotor to be check balanced "at speed" inside a bunker. If it jumps off the stand at 10,000rpm you don't want it skipping around in the shop. A couple days in "the bunker" isn't cheap.
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Old 11-12-2016, 04:10 AM   #18
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Re: Balancing

In my humble opinion most trailer tire failures are from not balancing and under inflation.
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Old 11-12-2016, 07:09 AM   #19
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Re: Balancing

Quote:
Originally Posted by gearhead View Post
When I have wheels/tires balanced I watch through a window or out on the driveway. If they have put a ton of weights on I have them bust the tire, rotate it, and try again. I watch that balance machine for the zeroes.
Anything that rotates and can be balanced, should be balanced...wheels/tires, lawn mower blades, 14,000RPM hydrogen compressors, yadda yadda yadda.
The cheaper tires tend to have more balance weights than the better brand tires, in my experience. That tells me bad things about construction quality. Going cheap can get expensive.
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Old 11-12-2016, 11:42 AM   #20
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Re: Balancing

Yeah, I think also depends on how the belts are overlayed on the sidewall.
Newer tires have dots on them to help the installer. I can't remember if the red dot is supposed to be at the valve or the yellow dot. But I can't remember what I had for breakfast either.
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