Installing hard start capacitor on AC

Dlmckinney33 · 07-07-2016, 09:12 PM

I have a 2014 hideout 28bhswe and I have the domestic 13,500 BTU AC unit and I am wanting to install the SPP6 hard start kit, I know it's two wires but which caps do they hook to? Just looking to help start the AC easier. If anyone could tell me which wire goes to what parts that would be great! Thanks!

Dlmckinney33 · 07-08-2016, 06:32 PM

Well I got it figured out, after i opened up the electrical box I realized there isn't a start cap on these, you attach it to the run cap. Works great, the generator that wouldn't start it before starts it now! Best $12 I've spent in awhile, it will save me from buying a new generator!

mfifield01 · 07-08-2016, 06:40 PM

What generator are you using?

I'd like mine to start in Eco mode.

Dlmckinney33 · 07-08-2016, 08:23 PM

Champion 3100 inverter generator starts in Eco mode, seems a little harder for it on Eco and not just runing at full throttle, but still starts it.

mfifield01 · 07-09-2016, 06:57 PM

I hope the hard start capacitor will help my 15k.

bdp711 · 05-30-2017, 05:16 AM

What's the difference between the micro air start and a hard start capacitor, besides about $300?

Outback 325BH · 05-30-2017, 12:50 PM

The hard start capacitor is just a capacitor-- it stores electricity for short burst needs (very short). The a/c still draws what it always has, but the cap has a little "boost" for assistance.

The micro-air is something that changes/clips the voltage curve during startup, which means the draw is reduced. These devices are commonly found on home units as well. (I have one on my geothermal unit at home, however it is a different brand.)

Once the ac is running, neither the hard start capacitor nor the micro-air device changes the amp draw. This is important to realize this if you are deciding between a second generator or a micro-air. The micro-air is within $150 of a 2000 Champion generator. If you choose the micro-air path, you can only run 2000 watts (1600) of things, however if you choose a second generator, you can run 4000 watts (3200) of things. I can start (and run) two ac units (or one ac and a lot of other things) with two 2000 watt generators with hard start capacitors (no micro-air). With a micro-air and one generator I would only be able to run one ac and not much else.

Another way to look at it is: the money you spend on a micro-air ONLY GOES TOWARDS ONE AIR CONDITIONER, whereas the money you spend on a second generator GOES TOWARDS ANYTHING YOU WANT TO RUN.

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Bumala · 06-04-2017, 08:47 PM

When an air conditioner compressor starts up it draws a lot of current. (30 to 40 amps, 3kW to 4 kW). When running it consumes only about 6 A (600W). The hard start cap reduces the start current, but not fully. It may or may not work with a 2k generator. The micro-air is a controlled slow-start. It ramps the current for your AC. When you install it you have to start the AC five times in order to teach the slow start what the ramp is. I installed one, and it defiantly works with a 2k generator.

The advantage of using a slow-start is that you only need one generator (45 lbs) instead of a 3k (80 lbs), or two 2ks (90 lbs). You pays your quarter and you takes your choices.

mfifield01 · 06-05-2017, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bumala

When an air conditioner compressor starts up it draws a lot of current. (30 to 40 amps, 3kW to 4 kW). When running it consumes only about 6 A (600W). The hard start cap reduces the start current, but not fully. It may or may not work with a 2k generator. The micro-air is a controlled slow-start. It ramps the current for your AC. When you install it you have to start the AC five times in order to teach the slow start what the ramp is. I installed one, and it defiantly works with a 2k generator.

The advantage of using a slow-start is that you only need one generator (45 lbs) instead of a 3k (80 lbs), or two 2ks (90 lbs). You pays your quarter and you takes your choices.

What AC are you using? Mine draws about 12.5 A when running. Around 1400-1500 watts of power. That's too close to the 1600 watt continuous power on a 2000 watt generator.

Outback 325BH · 06-05-2017, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bumala

The advantage of using a slow-start is that you only need one generator (45 lbs) instead of a 3k (80 lbs), or two 2ks (90 lbs). You pays your quarter and you takes your choices.

The disadvantage of using a slow-start is the slow-start costs close the the price of a 2000 watt generator... and only benefits the starting of that one air conditioner. If instead you buy a second 2000 watt generator, you haven't spent much more money but you can run a lot more stuff... including the air conditioner. (Managing loads, I can start and run two air conditioners (with $10 hard start caps) with two 2000 watt generators.)

The slow start doesn't change the running watts of the air conditioner, so you still need generator watts to run other stuff.

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bdp711 · 06-05-2017, 10:51 AM

I have a Champion 3100w/2800w inverter generator and on a hot day in South Carolina it won't start my 13.5 btu Dometic AC unit. I've tried starting the fan first, and then switching on the AC but nothing seems to work. Wondering if I should just buy another generator and run in parallel for full 50amp service or install a hard start capacitor/micro AC.

Outback 325BH · 06-05-2017, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdp711

I have a Champion 3100w/2800w inverter generator and on a hot day in South Carolina it won't start my 13.5 btu Dometic AC unit. I've tried starting the fan first, and then switching on the AC but nothing seems to work. Wondering if I should just buy another generator and run in parallel for full 50amp service or install a hard start capacitor/micro AC.

I installed a hard-start cart cap on my 13.5 ac and can start it using one Honda EU2000, however it isn't pretty. I now have two 2000 watt generators and have much more freedom to run things. Starting the ac doesn't hurt anymore either.

With a 2800, I would think you would be ok with a hard-start cap.

FYI: prior to the hard-start cap, I could not start my ac with a single 2000 watt generator... even with everything else off and the fan already running.

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dcg9381 · 06-05-2017, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdp711

I have a Champion 3100w/2800w inverter generator and on a hot day in South Carolina it won't start my 13.5 btu Dometic AC unit. I've tried starting the fan first, and then switching on the AC but nothing seems to work. Wondering if I should just buy another generator and run in parallel for full 50amp service or install a hard start capacitor/micro AC.

Champion 3500/4000. It'll run the AC and fridge. Might not at high altitude.
Have you gotten rid of all other electrical loads - IE the fridge and hot water? Might try shutting down all breakers but AC as an experiment. The 3500 will not run the fridge, hot water, and an AC unit.

**JRTJH** · 06-05-2017, 12:38 PM

To add to dcg9381's suggestion of turning off all other circuit breakers except the A/C, keep in mind that the converter/power center will draw between 500 and 1000 watts depending on the level of charge in the house battery. So if you've used the trailer 12 volt systems overnight and waited until it gets hot during the day to then recharge the battery while running the A/C to cool down the trailer, you'll very likely be consuming more watts than a 3100/2800 watt generator can provide. As soon as you plug the trailer into the generator your converter will "sap up to half" the generator output. With a 2000/1700 watt Champion, the converter can consume nearly the entire output if you've got a dual 6 volt battery bank and it's down to about 50% charge. The demands placed on the generator by the converter can be enough to essentially cause the generator to bog down with the addition of any other "large consumption device" like the refrigerator, water heater, microwave or ???

So starting the A/C while the converter is in a "high charge status" would be a very difficult/impossible event with the generator in "ECO" mode and would be "touchy" even in "NORM" mode.

bdp711 · 06-05-2017, 01:16 PM

I usually keep my house battery fully charged at home with a trickle charger. Maybe the way to go is to return the 3100/2800w and buy two 2000w and install a hard start capacitor. I'll need to run pretty much everything in my 30RIPR while I'm tailgating. The tv, refrigerator, AC, second TV, satellite dish, water pump. Maybe I need two 3100's...

**JRTJH** · 06-05-2017, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdp711

I usually keep my house battery fully charged at home with a trickle charger. Maybe the way to go is to return the 3100/2800w and buy two 2000w and install a hard start capacitor. I'll need to run pretty much everything in my 30RIPR while I'm tailgating. The tv, refrigerator, AC, second TV, satellite dish, water pump. Maybe I need two 3100's...

Ringling Brothers Circus is liquidating most of their "on the road" equipment. Maybe you can get a great deal on one of their big diesel generators ??? After all, it couldn't possibly weight much more than your trailer, truck and all your camping equipment, so you might be able to just make two trips, one to tow the trailer, one to tow the generator....

mfifield01 · 06-05-2017, 05:50 PM

There's been tests showing that the surge capability of the 3100w is higher than 2 - 2000w. The max wattage for the parallel kit is 3000w (not 4000w).

Outback 325BH · 06-05-2017, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfifield01

There's been tests showing that the surge capability of the 3100w is higher than 2 - 2000w. The max wattage for the parallel kit is 3000w (not 4000w).

The surge of a 3100 watt unit is 3100 watts. The surge of two 2000 watt units is 4000 watts.

The running watts of two 2000 watt units is 3200 watts.

Two 2000 watt units is more power than a 3100 watt unit in every way.

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mfifield01 · 06-06-2017, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outback 325BH

The surge of a 3100 watt unit is 3100 watts. The surge of two 2000 watt units is 4000 watts.

The running watts of two 2000 watt units is 3200 watts.

Two 2000 watt units is more power than a 3100 watt unit in every way.

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I found someone that tested them a while back. He had better surge results with the 3100w. The issue with the parallel kit is the low gauge wiring. The manual stated a max of 3000w in parallel. It's page 15 in the link below. It has two statements: "Two Champion model 73538i generators can be
operated in parallel to increase the total available
electrical power to 3000 watts." and "The total electrical load must not exceed 3000 watts."

http://www.championpowerequipment.co...al-english.pdf

Outback 325BH · 06-06-2017, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfifield01

I found someone that tested them a while back. He had better surge results with the 3100w. The issue with the parallel kit is the low gauge wiring. The manual stated a max of 3000w in parallel. It's page 15 in the link below. It has two statements: "Two Champion model 73538i generators can be

operated in parallel to increase the total available

electrical power to 3000 watts." and "The total electrical load must not exceed 3000 watts."

http://www.championpowerequipment.co...al-english.pdf

I see.

I have Honda generators. I guess that is yet another reason why the $500 specials really aren't as good as the Honda and Yamaha generators... which everyone claims they are.

Good to know. Thanks.

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