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Old 05-31-2016, 04:31 PM   #1
cbrhunter
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Flojet Water Pump question

Hi Folks, I recently purchased a 2015 Keystone Passport 2920 BH. We took it out on it's maiden voyage this past holiday weekend and I had an issue with the water pump that I wanted to run past you guys and get your feedback.

We arrived Thursday afternoon and got the RV set-up up at our spot (no hook-ups). I have two brand new 24DC that are running in parallel. We ran several lights, the furnance and the stereo for a bit over the course of the afternoon and into the evening (3pm to 9pm or so). That night at some point I heard the water pump kick on although no one was up using the toilet or faucets. The next morning after running some water the pump ran and wouldn't shut off until I killed it the power at the panel. After this happened a couple of times and the duration of the pump running increased I pulled out the Flojet paperwork and looked at the troubleshooting section and under the "Pump Fails to Turn Off After All Fixtures are Closed" I see 'Insufficient voltage to pump (low voltage)'. I checked the batteries with my voltmeter but I honestly don't remember exactly what it was (somewhere around 60% guestimating?) and the panel was reading 2/3rd for the Battery. I fired up the generator and when running on shore power the constant running stopped.

After I got home and was able to put a complete charge on the batteries I put one on the unit, put some water in the tank and ran various faucets and the toilet one at a time. The water ran great and system charged just fine and the pump shut off almost immediately after closing each one.

So here are my questions. It seems that the pump is a bit sensitive to the low voltage condition as it kicked on for what I assume to be the low voltage condition with still a significant amount of power in the batteries. Does this sound right? If so, is there a workaround of sorts - maybe charging the batteries with my deep cycle charger off the generator when it's running to get them back up to a complete charge? By the way no other electrical issues only the pump issue. Sorry for the long winded post but appreciate any help or insight
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Old 06-01-2016, 05:09 AM   #2
GMcKenzie
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Had the same problem. Fixed it by tossing the pump and putting in a Shurflo one. Flojet pumps are cheap junk IMHO.
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Old 06-01-2016, 06:25 AM   #3
cbrhunter
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Had the same problem. Fixed it by tossing the pump and putting in a Shurflo one. Flojet pumps are cheap junk IMHO.
Good to know! glad to know it wasn't me loosing my mind. I'll swap the pump the out. Thanks
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Old 06-01-2016, 06:58 AM   #4
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You mention having two 24DC in parallel. Do you mean two group 24?
We have a flo-jet and have had no issues. I would upgrade to batteries with larger amp/hr capacity. The small, group 24 batteries might be discharging rapidly; causing the low voltage to your pump. If you do a lot of dry camping, try upgrading to two golf cart batteries in series. JMHO - FWIW.
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Old 06-01-2016, 07:30 AM   #5
Lee
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Hi,

What you have described is not a water pump problem and a normal condition when the battery voltage starts to drop off.

On the end of the Flojet pump is a mechanical pressure switch set to ~ 50lbs. This switch is what supplies the 12v to the pump. Here is an example of the pump sequence.

Pump is first turned on and water flows until the pressure in the line gets to ~ 50lbs then the pressure switch opens and removes 12v from the pump.

The pump will not turn back on until the pressure drops below ~50lbs. As in say you flush the toilet. The toilet water valve opens, water flows thus dropping the water pressure, pressure switch on the pump senses this and closes supplying 12v to the pump and pump starts running.

So, this is what I believe happened to you: During the night the water pressure bleed down slowly. When the line pressure dropped below ~50lbs the pressure switch sensed this and supplied voltage to the pump,..... but because the batteries were weak, .... the pump could not run strong enough to get the water pressure back above the 50lb pressure level so,.... it will run, and run, and run, and....

Hope this makes sense.....

Though the Flojet pump may not be the best pumps on the market, yours is working correctly.
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Old 06-01-2016, 11:59 AM   #6
cbrhunter
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You mention having two 24DC in parallel. Do you mean two group 24?
Hi, 24DCMJ is what is on my batteries. Not sure if that helps - got them from O'Reilly. Thanks
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Old 06-01-2016, 05:09 PM   #7
Festus2
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The "24" refers to the battery group `in the 12v category- with 24 being the "smallest" of several groups. If you had been running the furnace, lights, and stereo in addition to other current draws which you may not be aware of (including the pump), the two 24's that you have may not be enough to keep up to your demands.

I wouldn't replace the pump just yet as it seems to be a low voltage/current issue rather than a problem with the pump. The pump seems to be working fine except when you are just relying on the batteries.

If you dry camp a fair amount of the time, I'd look into replacing the batteries with 2 6volts or move up to a higher group ---- 27 or 31 for the 12v's.
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Old 06-01-2016, 10:32 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee View Post
Hi,



What you have described is not a water pump problem and a normal condition when the battery voltage starts to drop off.



On the end of the Flojet pump is a mechanical pressure switch set to ~ 50lbs. This switch is what supplies the 12v to the pump. Here is an example of the pump sequence.



Pump is first turned on and water flows until the pressure in the line gets to ~ 50lbs then the pressure switch opens and removes 12v from the pump.



The pump will not turn back on until the pressure drops below ~50lbs. As in say you flush the toilet. The toilet water valve opens, water flows thus dropping the water pressure, pressure switch on the pump senses this and closes supplying 12v to the pump and pump starts running.



So, this is what I believe happened to you: During the night the water pressure bleed down slowly. When the line pressure dropped below ~50lbs the pressure switch sensed this and supplied voltage to the pump,..... but because the batteries were weak, .... the pump could not run strong enough to get the water pressure back above the 50lb pressure level so,.... it will run, and run, and run, and....



Hope this makes sense.....



Though the Flojet pump may not be the best pumps on the market, yours is working correctly.

As a systems guy for a living I love your description but I do need to point out one thing: There's no reason at all for a closed system to have "pressure bleed down slowly".

If it's doing that, something is leaking and needs to be found and fixed. Hopefully it isn't leaking somewhere hard to see / find and doing damage.
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Old 06-02-2016, 05:10 AM   #9
GMcKenzie
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I had 2 good 6 volts on mine, and swapped the pump out while dry camping. Same batteries, same charge ans the Shurflo worked a lot better right away. Maybe I had a bad Flojet pump, but the difference was clear.

Still say they are junk.
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Old 06-02-2016, 07:05 AM   #10
cbrhunter
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Guys, great info and insight, I really appreciate it. I'm gonna head back out in a couple of weeks and based on all the feedback and having a better understanding of the possible scenarios I'm going to observe a lot more closely and then figure out a game plan.
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Old 06-09-2016, 02:05 PM   #11
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I've been having the same issues with my Flowjet pump setup as Well. For a year its been running great. However, the last few camping trips running off the batteries the pump has cycled a few times throughout the night and has not shut off. I've checked the complete system and no leaks. The pump does not cycle overnight when hooked up to shore power and not hooked to city water. I should also mention that the pump works great on the Honda
EU2000i generator. The run on is definitely due to low voltage at the pump, confirmed with a volt meter. The two 12 volt, group 24 batteries have been used and charged properly for several years but through testing this week seem to drop off voltage quickly, again confirmed with a volt meter and battery hydrometer. Two cells in one battery not getting above the low end of the fair scale(1200). Unfortunately time to spend money on new batteries :-(

I just picked up a pair of Crown CR235 6 volt batteries yesterday and will be using them for the first time on June 17-19th in Manning Park. After doing some research I've determined with my current battery setup I only have 162 total amp hours available to be used, and that would be with fresh batteries which these are definitely not. The 235 amp hours will be welcome with the new batteries.

I'll update here when I return from the trip to let people know how the new batteries worked.
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Old 06-09-2016, 06:09 PM   #12
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More often than not the leak down is caused by the check valve leaking slightly, and the pressure is bleeding back through the pump to the fresh water tank. There likely is no external leak. Check all plumbing connections carefully of course, but if you don't find an external leak, then its the check valve. My experience is similar to that which has already been posted. Flojet pumps are trouble.
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Old 06-12-2016, 09:08 AM   #13
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More often than not the leak down is caused by the check valve leaking slightly, and the pressure is bleeding back through the pump to the fresh water tank. There likely is no external leak. Check all plumbing connections carefully of course, but if you don't find an external leak, then its the check valve. My experience is similar to that which has already been posted. Flojet pumps are trouble.
X2 You could also consider an RV expansion tank to minimize the pulses along with the on-and-off. May also help if the check valve has a small bleed back of water. Batteries such as two-6V would be good in solving your issue.

The furnace blower motor is a large drain on the battery.

Another large drain is from the RV refrigerator. When the refrigerator is on, there is a resistive heating element drawing 12v power 24-7. This is for a door heater on the refrigerator. Generally it is between the two doors and you can tell if it's on because the surface the gaskets touch will be warm to the touch. The manufacturer built it this way to keep little water droplets from forming around the door gaskets. Usually, condensation does not occur when humidity is low such as desert camping or if the rigs indoor temps are low. If it did occur, you could simply wipe down this surface from time to time and realize your saving your valuable and limited 12v amperage. It would be nice if there was an option to turn off the door heaters when your dry camping. However, looking at the modern RV refrigerator wiring diagrams it seems the manufacturers have not made this an option. I did once have a Dometic RV refrigerator with this option. Anyway if your wondering why a battery drains down so quickly when your not using to much power and dry camping, this is why. Also, LED lighting is a must have option when dry camping. Hope this helps.

John
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Old 06-12-2016, 10:41 AM   #14
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X2 You could also consider an RV expansion tank to minimize the pulses along with the on-and-off. May also help if the check valve has a small bleed back of water. Batteries such as two-6V would be good in solving your issue.

The furnace blower motor is a large drain on the battery.

Another large drain is from the RV refrigerator. When the refrigerator is on, there is a resistive heating element drawing 12v power 24-7. This is for a door heater on the refrigerator. Generally it is between the two doors and you can tell if it's on because the surface the gaskets touch will be warm to the touch. The manufacturer built it this way to keep little water droplets from forming around the door gaskets. Usually, condensation does not occur when humidity is low such as desert camping or if the rigs indoor temps are low. If it did occur, you could simply wipe down this surface from time to time and realize your saving your valuable and limited 12v amperage. It would be nice if there was an option to turn off the door heaters when your dry camping. However, looking at the modern RV refrigerator wiring diagrams it seems the manufacturers have not made this an option. I did once have a Dometic RV refrigerator with this option. Anyway if your wondering why a battery drains down so quickly when your not using to much power and dry camping, this is why. Also, LED lighting is a must have option when dry camping. Hope this helps.

John
There is a "heating element" in the frame of the Dometic DM and RM refrigerators. In the DM2662 and DM2862 models (upgraded versions) there is a switch on the underside of the eyebrow panel. On the DM2652 and DM2852 models (OEM or most Keystone RV's) the switch is missing and the heating element is "powered" during all refrigerator operation modes.

One member posted a "fairly simple" modification to add a switch to the circuit. The switch enables the operator to either turn on or turn off the heating element. By turning it off, significant "dry camping battery power" can be achieved.

Here is the original thread, the schematic and pictures of the modification are on page three of the thread: http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/sho...rigerator+door
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